Mtn_Man

Join Date 02/2008

+13

Iron Lore Entertainment's copy protection bites them on the butt

Iron Lore Entertainment, maker of Titan Quest, is closing up shop due in part to low sales. Michael Fitch, a fellow from THQ, had some interesting things to say about it:

It's a rough, rough world out there for independent studios who want to make big games, even worse if you're single-team and don't have a successful franchise to ride or a wealthy benefactor. Trying to make it on PC product is even tougher, and here's why.

Piracy. Yeah, that's right, I said it. No, I don't want to re-hash the endless "piracy spreads awareness", "I only pirate because there's no demo", "people who pirate wouldn't buy the game anyway" round-robin. Been there, done that. I do want to point to a couple of things, though.

One, there are other costs to piracy than just lost sales. For example, with TQ, the game was pirated and released on the nets before it hit stores. It was a fairly quick-and-dirty crack job, and in fact, it missed a lot of the copy-protection that was in the game. One of the copy-protection routines was keyed off the quest system, for example. You could start the game just fine, but when the quest triggered, it would do a security check, and dump you out if you had a pirated copy. There was another one in the streaming routine. So, it's a couple of days before release, and I start seeing people on the forums complaining about how buggy the game is, how it crashes all the time. A lot of people are talking about how it crashes right when you come out of the first cave. Yeah, that's right. There was a security check there.

So, before the game even comes out, we've got people bad-mouthing it because their pirated copies crash, even though a legitimate copy won't. We took a lot of sh** on this, completely undeserved mind you. How many people decided to pick up the pirated version because it had this reputation and they didn't want to risk buying something that didn't work? Talk about your self-fulfilling prophecy.

. . .

What was the ultimate impact of that? Hard to measure, but it did get mentioned in several reviews. Think about that the next time you read "we didn't have any problems running the game, but there are reports on the internet that people are having crashes."

http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=42663

You have to wonder if Titan Quest would have sold better if they used no copy protection like Stardock's games.

Locked Post

Advanced Search

Watch this post

Do not email me updates for this post Email me updates for this post

Successfully updated karma reason!

We have a rather long discussion about this going on in another thread. You should hop in it and speak your mind.

Successfully updated karma reason!

if they used no copy protection like Stardock's games.

Well, Stardock's way of dealing with piracy is composed of various things, which all boil down to make it easier to be a customer than a pirate:

- no protection on the retail copy

- can play the game without any CD or without needed to be connected to Internet

- one time activation to valid your copy, linking a serial Id with a single e-mail

- lots of free updates available only to people who have activated the game

It is the combination of all theses points that make life easier for customer than for pirate

Successfully updated karma reason!

I also think Titan Quest as a game was a poor concept. Just another diablo clone comes to mind.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I agree with that. I'd say they (Iron Lore) bought the bullet for the ir bad idea. It's going to take great leaps of faith for other companies to come around to Stardock's way of thinking (like what Peace Phoenix detailed above). There's no tears shed for those companies who don't see the light.

Successfully updated karma reason!

The thread with this discussion going on is here.

Successfully updated karma reason!

It didn't really bite them on the ass... It just goes to show that piracy is running rampant. People were bitching because they couldn't play their pirated game, and unfortunately Iron Lore didn't come forth and slap those imbeciles.

As a matter of fact, this is perfect proof as to why piracy is bad. The anti-piracy protection from the game really wasn't much, and negligible if you actually owned the game ( I actually own the game

). I actually like the system that they have in place, it's quite brilliant. Sadly, piracy ruined the game... NOT COPY PROTECTION.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I disagree. Designing a product with traps in it to thwart would be pirates without considering the impact it would have on legitimate users in the market was what ruined it for the game. It was simply a bad project management decision.

Successfully updated karma reason!

You have to wonder if Titan Quest would have sold better if they used no copy protection like Stardock's games.

Titan Quest would have sold much better if it wasn't a slower, less fun version of Diablo 2.

Unlike THQ's recent family addition Frontlines: Fuel of War - which is actually fun, Titan Quest kind of deserved it's failure. A reminder to the would-be developers out there that ripoffs don't pay off, unless they're better than the game they're ripping off.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I find it hilarious. Why don't they have a huge popup saying you are using a pirated copy instead of outright shutting of the game???

Successfully updated karma reason!

I think it had nothing to do with copy write protection or piracy in general.. IT was because of the game it self.. They made a subpar Diablo 2 clone, a game that was still and still is immensely popular... They made nothing really new with the game, nor did they improve anything.. Yet some how the company expects they are successful and thinks piracy must be the fault.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Brillig

Join Date 03/2003

This is so wrong it beggars belief. The traps had no impact on legitimate users, only on pirates.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Did you even read the article?

He said right in it, pirates complaining about the traps most likely hurt sales as people heard that it would just spontaneously crash at the FIRST QUEST.

Successfully updated karma reason!

The command and conquer games did this too, as well as the Prince of Persia games.

Except those were obvious security checks, so people didn't bad mouth the game for those.

Successfully updated karma reason!

The pirates actively complained on many forums and in lots of venues about the crashes as was pointed out and to the best of my knowledge the company never came out and said this was so because it was a trap we hard-coded into the software to stop pirates. Why did they not do this? One would say it was because then the pirates would fix it thus making it pointless to do it in the first place. Another reason is because they just maybe felt it was not something the public wanted to hear. In both instances you have practically the same end results and that is it is not worth it at all to do such things.

Information in this situation was asymmetrical and the publics opinion was tainted as a result. This of course does not include the fact the game was not a great one to begin with.

So my position is simple, it was a reasonably foreseeable turn of events and the company failed to plan for it.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I find it hilarious. Why don't they have a huge popup saying you are using a pirated copy instead of outright shutting of the game???

Exactly! And why aren't they pursing legal action against people complaining when they obviously have a pirated copy because the game hasn't been released yet? It would work in their favor because people would either 1) shut up or 2) go buy the game so they don't get caught. Piracy is a fact of life. DRM and the way ILE responded did serious damage.

This reminds me of a day a long time ago when I was a commission electronics salesman for Sears back when they were Sears (and not Kmart) and sold all sorts of computers, including Apples. People would always try to "hack" into the demo machines and screw them up really badly or lock us out. Since I was the first person to work there that actually knew about computers, I'd commonly go into safe mode and safeguard all the hidden accounts and use passwords that weren't easy to guess. I recall someone throwing a fit and complaining that they couldn't log into the computer. They made a big fuss and I walked over to inspect the machine, asked why they were trying to log in through safe mode, they insisted it wasn't safe mode, I stomped all over their "1337 computer skills", and then added a message reminding people trying to log in with that hidden XP administrator account that there was a camera directly above them pointed at them at all times. What happened? I got written up! I @$(*&^@# got written up! I had to go remove all the safeguards I added. If I missed a single one that *&^%*&^%@ kid would complain and then I'd have to stand there and demonstrate that I removed the safeguard only to be locked out from turning the computer off when the store closed because that little (*&^@*&#$#% locked the store out of its own accounts, again. What was the reason for this? Because I might upset this "customer". This is someone who never shopped at the store and just went around causing trouble by screwing with the computers, stealing batteries of out remotes, stealing entire remotes, stealing demo audio cd's, turning up music and running away, and so on. They said I might "upset a customer" who clearly was not a customer at all. This sort of absurd and asinine approach to those who are out to do you harm is completely irresponsible and ridiculous regardless of if it's internet ILE game pirates or pompous teenage punks at a retail store.

Successfully updated karma reason!

@ZLBDragon - I agree completely. I lost a job once for putting a customer in their place after they publicly tried to insult me and question my competency. My boss gave me this "the customer is always right" bullshit. I told him not when he attacks me and my abilities and he is lacking in any meaningful capacity to do so let along being totally wrong to begin with. Given that I was "young" at the time my boss said I needed to mature a little - I was thinking WTF? I had several degrees at that point and was only doing the job for fun.

Successfully updated karma reason!

In the end, the real truth about THIS topic in THIS thread is...

Titan Quest was NOT a good game, it was NOT enjoyable... and the devs did a TERRIBLE job with copy protection (which the tread states screwed them in the end).

Look at Blizzard... They are a PRIME and PERFECT example of how the world works...

People don't pirate Warcraft 3 (for the most part) or starcraft, or diablo 2... why? Because the REAL fun and enjoyment of the game is ONLINE play which requires a valid key...

Any developer in todays world whos trying to create a single-player only game needs to create it on CONSOLE. The security checks on console are MUCH more difficult to bypass.

Pretend you enjoyed Titan Quest single player... for a few hours. If they provided quality service and servers to the community (like battle.net)... they wouldn't have had any issues with pirated copies.

I'm a Blizzard "fan boy" I guess you could say, but its pretty easy to tell why... Everything they do is just... perfect. WoW is HUGE, WC3 is/was huge, starcraft HUGE, Diablo 2 HUGE!...

And ALL of those services have Battle.net (or similar) to thank for the success. The developers need to Learn2Support the community... not bitch about people stealing their shitty software... The pirate argument "They wouldn't buy it anyway" is completely true... Most people pirate a game, play it for a few minutes... see how much it sucks... and go back to playing something they PAID for because, well, that game they paid for was actually worth the money.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I find it hilarious. Why don't they have a huge popup saying you are using a pirated copy instead of outright shutting of the game???

http://cristgaming.com/pirate.swf
something like this?

that'd rule... having that pop up every time you hit a quest or loading screen.

Successfully updated karma reason!

See pirates are usually some of the most clever people in the gaming world. I know quite a few that play many online games including WC3 and World or Warcraf and Guild Wars, you name it. Without paying a dime.

Now I consider it a wise thing to do to invest in game productiong, otherwise games would just stop being produced. Not to mention that pirating is a hassle in my view, and well illegal.

The thing is, and many people support this few. What pushes people to piracy is prices. And frankly, games are overpriced, especially games with subscriptions.

Copyright protection was made to keep a ballance between consumers and producers. To make sure that producers could have control over their product, to make sure they would run a marginal profit with the benifit of the consumer. Lately, though, the consumer has started saying no to the overpriced products on the market, whether through piracy or refusal of purchase. What caused this was the lack of ballance, producers knew that copy rights were in their favor, that they could charge high prices that would run high profit, because their product was unique. In essence this created a market of monopolies. And companies like blizzard are one of the worst examples.

Oh, and i expect piracy to become a larger part of the world. The music and film industry are already fighting a losing battle. Soon it will be the ruin of the gaming world so to speak. Plus, there are groups around the world that are mobolizing to protect the rights of pirates. Its frankly getting ridiculous, sweeden has a Pirate poltical party, which might actually win significant precentages of the government parliment.

Food for thought, i guess.

Successfully updated karma reason!

@TGE - a nice commentary to be sure.

The bottom line is this... If you respect the consumers and deliver a solid product, that is wanted at a reasonible price then they will respect you and purchase it.

It does not get any simpler then that despite all the hyperbole, pontificating and monologues as well as perceived rights, ownership and laws.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Most people using pirated games aren't terribly intelligent, and are the moral equivalent of people that dine and dash. Sure you've got to have some capabilities to actually crack the game, though far less than someone that is productive and MAKES a game. However most people that use pirated games merely download something that's already been cracked for them. Doesn't take brains, just greed and a lack of responsibility for their own actions.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Iron Lore did not listen to the users, blaming piracy for the lack of good game code is just like a child getting the last cry/fit in just before its grounded. I own TQ, i have a machine thats well beyond the min spec (I can run X3 at 35fps in full combat for petes sake) yet i still had slowdowns and irritations with Titan Quest. I didnt even bother to get the expansion.

Too bad they had to leave but maybe the industry will learn a thing or two before running out and releasing garbage games, then again there are a lot of dust collectors out on the market right now.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I'm an action-RPG fan, still play Diablo 2, Sacred (can't wait for Sacred 2), Hellgate: London and the rest, and I'm sorry to say that Titan Quest wasn't a very good game. It was a hollow Diablo in a new dress. I couldn't play it beyond the first act, as it was simply boring and uninspired. And it's not just my preference, I bought the game to my brother and his wife, which the two always play Diablo 2 and other clones in LAN together, and they simply never really played it that much with many different excuses.

Blaming piracy is fine and all, but the paying customers have their say as well. I'm not keen on seeing companies fall, but Titan Quest wasn't good, and if Iron Lore wanted to make a profit just due to this game and nothing else, then I'm afraid that they didn't have what it takes in the first place and their heart wasn't in the right place.

Stardock was a low-budget company for many years, with their share of losses, I bet. It took a lot of patience, and you can now see the results. It's obvious to see that they have a huge passion for PC gaming, know what it takes, and I wish they'll take us to the future with their non-compromising way of dealing with Copy-Protection and Piracy.

Successfully updated karma reason!

The fact TQ was a clone of so many other games and it was poorly executed proved to be it's down fall. I know some one who bought it said it was one of the worst diablo clones that he had ever played because the story sucked allot, game play wasn't that interesting and the items weren't all that interesting. I know piracy is an issue and that something should be done to protect the people who's lively hood rest upon it but the fact the game got an average of [url=http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/titanquest?q=titan%20quest]77% over at metacritic.com[/url] proves there was something all ready wrong with it and it wasn't just piracy.

"PC Gamer: Titan Quest doesn't do much more than "Diablo II" did to innovate in the action RPG space, but it's still a hell of a good time. [Sep 2006, p.70]" Gamers want games to go past the normal accepted view of what games should be and become more innovative and PC gamers yearn for that more so than any console gamer will because we have more options we have been playing games at the level of current consoles for almost 10 years now. I bought SoaSE because Ironclad broke the mold between two genres and made it work flawlessly, sure there are a few hiccups which keeps it from being perfect but no game will ever be perfect first time out the gate when you try to innovate but at least they gave a damn enough to try unlike Iron Lore did.

Successfully updated karma reason!

The copy protection was just insult to injury. No, copy protection didn't kill Titanquest - but it DEFINITELY hurt it. Who do they have to blame? Just themselves.

Considering most of the pirates I know do it to TRY the game, cause a Demo isn't good enough... and WILL actually buy it if they have the money (which frankly we college students don't always)..... then having the game **** up all over the place is not going to get raving reviews - or make them want to put cold hard cash on the table. The assumption is a pirated copy is the same as the normal after all.

Successfully updated karma reason!