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I know it's been asked a thousand times, but is there EVER going to be multi-core support?

By on June 18, 2012 8:50:30 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Zepheyr

Join Date 12/2009
+1

You've heard it all before, and we all know how Sins gets slower and slower the bigger the map is and the longer you play it.

 

The one dark cloud that hangs over Sins, an otherwise (in my opinion) perfect game, is the fact that even with a modern gaming rig I can't play medium-large, large, or huge maps for longer than a few hours before the entire match slows to an intolerable crawl and becomes impossible to finish. My vast interstellar empire building ends up being a pointless exercise, because the bigger it is and the more ships I field, the slower and more unplayable the game becomes. Watching the seconds tick by upon scuttling something is like watching life play out in slow motion... it can literally take 3+ seconds just for 1 realtime second to pass. My video card barely gets used in this game, but my CPU gasps for dear life. If I want to be sure I have a consistently smooth game I have to play a small or medium-sized map with a small fleet size, and have to set the AI difficulty pretty low or they end up having too high of a resource bonus and build huge fleets anyway. For a game based around building empires and engaging in massive fleet battles, it is almost unbearable that I can't play it the way I want to play it.

 

Why can't I just make a colossal map with tons of stars and hundreds of planets and 7 Viscious AI's and not have to worry about never finishing it? Every couple of months I get the itch to create a space empire and engage in some epic fleet battles, so I come back to Sins because nothing scratches that itch like some good old Sins, the greatest space RTS ever. However, without fail I only play it for a few days, maybe a week and then quit in frustration because the slowdown ruins my epic space empire dreams.

 

I know I sound like a broken record since this subject has been done to death, but I thought multi-core support was supposed to be added with Rebellion. Maybe I was just wishing it was going to be added.

 

Is this a dream we are going to have to wait a few more years for when Sins 2 comes out?

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June 18, 2012 8:56:08 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I believe the devs have said a few times it isn't going to happen.

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June 18, 2012 8:56:29 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'd imagine multi core support would require massive engine overhauling. When the game engine was first made, I think single cores were still the norm for gaming. Unfortunately, at that time it was right before multi core CPU's became the new standard, hence we have an engine that only uses one core.

Unless ICO decides to drop one heck of a patch for rebllion, we're probably not gonna see multi core support till sins 2.

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June 18, 2012 8:57:28 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Hope that after or during the development of Sins of a Dark Age, the Iron Engine gets an overhaul (or a successor) because otherwise, no and even if those things happened, that would only apply to Sins II.

Sins I will not have multi-core support.

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June 18, 2012 9:02:12 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yup, we'll have to wait for a sequel with an all new engine (which it will have). Sadly we have no idea when that might be.

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June 18, 2012 9:50:09 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

That makes me sad. I knew that would be the answer, but I still harbored a tiny shred of hope.

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June 18, 2012 10:44:03 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

The dev's have stated numerous times that while they want to do it. The time, money, and manpower is just not there to cost effectively make Sins multi core compatible. They said if they went that rout they might as well make a new game engine from scratch. AKA Sins 2.

As disappointing as that is for some, Enjoy Sins for what it is. The hope is there. It just needs a new engine for it to manifest itself.

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June 18, 2012 11:43:22 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

The best you can do is hope for this in Sins 2, where us people with super godlike gaming rigs can play gigantic maps of hundreds of star systems.

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June 19, 2012 1:00:53 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I do believe a Linux power user was able to get some sketchy multi-core action going on...doesn't do me any good but if anyone knows where that thread is, some others may be interested...

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June 19, 2012 9:24:22 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Sins of a Solar Empire II, if they do it, will probably have 64 bit multi-core capabilities and High Definition. If it does, I'm buying 3 more 4 GB ram sticks!

 

I forgot to add that making a game 64 bit isn't easy. Go into SoaSE's folder. See all of the .DLL files? They need to be 64 bit. I think that Bink doesn't have 64 bit video player, nor does the Firelight Technologies have a 64 bit version of FMOD.DLL . Don't even get started with the statically linked libraries, and having to fix the code to accommodate 64 bit Windows API and stuff like that.

As a matter of fact, there are some Steam DLL files in there, and we all know Steam isn't 64 bit. Valve said that they won't make Steam 64 bit in a long time.

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June 19, 2012 9:31:21 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Seleuceia,
I do believe a Linux power user was able to get some sketchy multi-core action going on...doesn't do me any good but if anyone knows where that thread is, some others may be interested...

Filesoft or Thomusin is what he is called and most of his posts are in 7DS thread 

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June 19, 2012 2:36:35 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

This engine is garbage... I cant play the game on my epic gaming rig as the effects cuts out early in the game. This leaves me with a game where i no longer can see swarms of missiles/lazers + + + cuss the game cuts them out for some reason. I thought it might have changed with rebellion, but i guess not.

Lazy and poorly executed. (I have 2 gaming rigs, neither can play the game without the effects dissapearing, but my 4year old crappy laptop plays it like a god. Where is the logic?) 

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June 19, 2012 3:47:58 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Zarhadom,
This engine is garbage... I cant play the game on my epic gaming rig as the effects cuts out early in the game. This leaves me with a game where i no longer can see swarms of missiles/lazers + + + cuss the game cuts them out for some reason. I thought it might have changed with rebellion, but i guess not.

Lazy and poorly executed. (I have 2 gaming rigs, neither can play the game without the effects dissapearing, but my 4year old crappy laptop plays it like a god. Where is the logic?) 

Lol, this engine is outdated, not garbage.

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June 19, 2012 3:52:17 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Four years old, no? 

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June 19, 2012 3:54:48 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well, Sins was released four years ago, but the Iron Engine would have come before that.

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June 19, 2012 4:30:18 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I gotta say I only found this game in the past few weeks (had heard of the precursor but never tried) I love strat, but this game is frustrating. It seems like it could easily be an epic game with just a few changes like multi-core support and some UI tweaks and such. Awesome game, but completely frustrating it only uses 1 core etc..

 

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June 19, 2012 4:31:50 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz,

Quoting Zarhadom, reply 12This engine is garbage... I cant play the game on my epic gaming rig as the effects cuts out early in the game. This leaves me with a game where i no longer can see swarms of missiles/lazers + + + cuss the game cuts them out for some reason. I thought it might have changed with rebellion, but i guess not.

Lazy and poorly executed. (I have 2 gaming rigs, neither can play the game without the effects dissapearing, but my 4year old crappy laptop plays it like a god. Where is the logic?) 

Lol, this engine is outdated, not garbage.

 

Yeah the engine is pretty damned good actually, handling hundreds of units at once without throwing a fit isn't as easy to do as you might think, but no multicore does kinda suck when one is dealing with hundreds of units

 

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June 19, 2012 10:01:56 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting thefinn12345,
Yeah the engine is pretty damned good actually, handling hundreds of units at once without throwing a fit isn't as easy to do as you might think, but no multicore does kinda suck when one is dealing with hundreds of units

 

lol I am a game dev and the team I'm on built its own engine (something I wasn't involved with, but I still heard plenty of cries of frustration lol).  The main reason that the IE is "outdated" is that it is single threaded and is 32 bit.  When it was made, they didn't expect those things to be as popular as they were and they wanted to have it as available as possible to consumers.  Had they had a crystal ball, maybe they'd have futureproofed it more, but for what they did, the IE really is a good engine, not even close to garbage.  It does what it does very very well.  The main problem is that a lot of modern engines do more because they utilize multithreading and 64 bit.

The IE is a very good engine IMO when you consider the features that other engines exploit that it lacks.

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June 20, 2012 5:14:54 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Be damn, I am willing to pay/donate to kickstarter if they came come up price or goal to make this happen....

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June 20, 2012 8:14:37 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Just so everyone is aware, "multi-threading" a single-threaded process without having it crash constantly is widely considered to be impossible (or at least cost-prohibitive). You can't rewrite your architecture and keep your code intact.

The best thing Ironclad can do right now is offer up some realistic guidelines as to how players should set up their comp-stomping sessions. Your mileage may vary of course, but if 8-player galaxies are just not going to work, then it's better to say so ahead of time.

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June 20, 2012 8:22:16 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting G_Bison,
Be damn, I am willing to pay/donate to kickstarter if they came come up price or goal to make this happen....

Not really going to help.  Apparently such an undertaking would take their small team a year of work if I remember what was once said correctly.

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June 21, 2012 10:49:51 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yea, rather than re-architect the existing engine in a multithreaded way, the best bet would just to put those resources into a new multithreaded engine built from the ground up. Add in a 64-bit executable as well, pretty please.

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June 22, 2012 1:46:28 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Architecting a multi-threaded app almost has to be done from the very beginning of the design. Anytime one thread needs to communicate with another thread it is an incredibly complicated procedure in the code. And putting that thread communication signaling logic into an existing code base is more work than writing it from the ground up.

 

Look here

http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/42605/Multithreaded-and-Interprocess-Signaling-Using-Sem

 

And consider thats just a high level general example of all the signal wrapping code that needs to be done around the actual game code logic itself. Not to mention an entire set of logic you need to think about that just revolves around the communication between threads. And of course the original architecting about what should be running in its own thread. Oh yeah the part where u actually test to see if having something in its own thread is actually faster (all that signal wrapping code cause problems and potential performance loss).

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June 22, 2012 2:39:02 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

So, is it possible to play huge maps at all?...

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June 22, 2012 7:03:41 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yes, but if your cores aren't too good, expect lag.

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June 22, 2012 8:20:03 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Hmmmm....

 

I guess we'll just have to have a look-see!

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