In all honesty, with the list of spells being what it currently is, magic (or at least tactical magic) feels weaker now than it did before the mana revamp.  There used to be some crazily powerful stuff you could cast in combat.  In my first long game, I won a couple of battles against a faction that massively outclassed me militarily due to multiple casters throwing down stuff like Stab of Ice (which caused the target to lose its turn) and Confusion (which prevented counterattacks by the target for a while).  Researching a decent level of tactical magic could be incredibly gamechanging, but it was balanced to some extent, because the mana pool of a given caster was quite limited.  I could completely turn a losing battle around with magic, but if I had to do it more than once or twice in a row I'd be totally drained for dozens of turns and not be able to do it again.

Now that you need to be aware of the possibility of a player having thousands of mana stockpiled, you're afraid to have spells like that anymore.  I've only played one game so far, but I had every spellbook and won via the Spell of Mastery and didn't see even one utility spell a tenth as good as the better picks from the old stuff.  I mean, Grip of Winter?  A 25% chance for the target to lose its turn?  Why would I ever cast that?  If ever there was a situation in which casting Grip of Winter was my best option, it would mean that my best spell was a quarter as powerful as a generic unit's attack...not a good sign.  Combat magic not being mitigated by armor is a big plus, but none of it scales at all.  The highest-scaling spells I ever saw were Arcane Arrow (int/2...good luck ever dealing more than 15-20 damage even in the longest game) and Fireball (8 + 4 per fire shard, when having even two fire shards would be incredibly lucky).  If the AI wasn't too dumb to prioritize Logistics magical damage would have gotten worthless in a hurry.  Strategic magic isn't much better off (with occasional exception, like Call of the Titans or Whirlwind which are just ridiculously powerful).

I have no doubt that it'll get better over time, but as of right now the new magic system hasn't really inspired the same level of confidence as the new city or combat mechanics.

The OP makes some very reasonable arguments.

The Channelers need a strong magical identity and powers to go with it from turn 1.

Learning new spells can not be about mundane researchers unlocking techs. The Channelers need to be the focus here. Sovereigns or imbued Wizards should be the ones who unlock new powers. Researching should be tied to their Intelligence score. That way a low Int Sovereign could recruit a high Int NPC, leave him in the tower to unlock new powers and go out adventuring himself. A Sovereign with a superior Intelligence in a tower would be the fastest way of learning new spells. That Sovereign could imbue an NPC Wizard and send him on a quest without risking his own hide, and protect the capital himself while researching.

Speaking of the recruitable 'Wizards', it's a little odd they actually can't cast any spells before the Sovereign imbues them. They should have similar basic powers Sovereigns should get automatically, and imbuing them should mean letting them in the shard/mana/research pool.

And magical powers should not grow doing battle. A Sovereign who runs around the landscape clubbing things to death should not become a more powerful spellcaster than the one who stays in the capital and spends all his time researching new spells and perfecting his Wizard skills. Perhaps experience levels and channeler levels should be separated so that you wouldn't feel forced to run around killing things all the time. Leaders of a nation seldom abandon their people in the name of adventure anyway.

I've been using the heck out of return, lower land, mobility, and arcane weapon in the early game.

[quote who="cfehunter" reply="30" id="2851009"]I'm greatly for the way the sov is treated in elemental over how the wizard is treated in AoW:SM or MoM. The entire thing with them being all powerful but made of glass never really sat well with me.
[/quote]

I do like the fact that my avatar is on the battlefield instead of in a tower.  What draws people to every game is different, but what made me jump on this game was successor to MoM and that I would have my avatar in the field and controllable instead of in a tower the entire game hiding.  Usually you have sacrifices for certain abilities such as:

• Mage = weak at the start, but powerful with experience and to offset this is usually low hp or def
• Warrior = good all around in damage and defense, but lack legendary damage due to increased def or hp.

I am not saying this is how it should be, but each role is different and should feel different.  Right now being a warrior is top all around for damage and defense and a mage type roll is not even playable or at least once you start uping the difficulty.  When I step on the field of battle I want to know those guys are scared shitless of what I might cast, but I also want to feel that if they start advancing I should be sweating because if they get close I am going to get my ass kicked.

As it is now we should be able to decide from the start if we are going to be casting spells, using melee or a hybrid class instead of being forced to be a warrior for X amount of turns or never playing a caster role in higher difficulties.

Kestral,

I'm in alignment with the community on this one...  But WHY AREN"T you guys doing the little things like  "more spells" or adding a starting spell?

if it is too busy working on the big things then I think you guys need a wake up call and listen to the community.  Big things are great but I think you should get the little things done first.  I won't speak for everyone else. 

Remember that while we may disagree on the details I think we all agree that we want this game to be better than ok, we want it to be great! 

It should be more than just one spell they start the game with.  Give them the basics at least to fit different strategies.  Give them an offensive spell, defensive spell and a misc spell such as enchantment.  I think imbue hero should be removed because you should not be able to make people have magic.  Either you are born with it or not and that is how it should be.

Well said....

Cool. I hope you play lots of AOW:SM and can try to improve on what they do. I think once you've done that, this game will be getting a lot closer to what I want to play, and the kind of thing I would recommend to people. The only thing missing at that point, would be more interesting maps/scenarios.