The Lore » Forum Post by scotgaymer

On one hand, yes, I do agree. Everything struck me familiar, as I had played GalCiv.

On another hand, there's a book coming out in a few months. I expect that there will be a measure of lore in there...and that the current lore will change with time.

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I am not trying to be rude about it. I would just like a bit of originality in it there.

Part of the fun of playing these types of game is discovering the little lore tid bits in game and such like and if the lore and back story for Elemental is the exact same as Gal Civ then can I ask what the point is exactly?

Why not just do a game called Gal Civ 3: Wow its Magic!

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Elemental is the SPIRITUAL successor to Master of Magic. It is not, and was never intended to be, a direct sequel or have any similar story elements as MoM.

I like the fact that they are not using the bland old fantasy story elements, and the fact is we know hardly anything about the lore except for the Great Cataclysm that destroyed the world, and some snippets about individual factions and entities. To say that the story is just Galactic Civ in space is not only jumping the gun, it's just plain wrong imo.

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Philocthetes

Join Date 10/2003

+153

I'm also still a bit put off by the fuzzy 'lore' overlaps with GalCiv, but I don't think that's a negotiable item at this point and I'm mostly just happy to see Stardock starting to pay more serious attention to the text/narrative parts of their games. I more or less hate Random House for a host of political and aesthetic reasons, but I very much hope that their evil empirelet helps Brad earn so much cheese that he ends up starting the Elemental 2 effort with an Integrated Metaphysics dev journal. I understand that he's begun suffering feedback from professional editors...

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Ive been reading through the lore pages and that recently.

And I wondered am I the only one who is dissapointed here? The lore is basically the back story of Gal Civ regurgitated for the fantasy setting of Elemental War of Magic..

Its rather dissapointing considering this was supposed to be the successor to Master of Magic which its looking less and less likely that it will be. I know Brad wrote the back story and that for Gal Civ and I am sure he is proud of it but doesnt he have any other ideas? Something a bit more ya know original or different?

Im not trying to be cheeky or anything. Just wondering if anyone else noticed and feels the same as me that id rather EWOM would be a seperate francise/universe than be tacked onto Gal Civ.

I'm quite happy that EWOM is not MoM. The little I played Master of Magic... well, it wasn't exactly an original world either, but it was functional for sure.

People forget in some ways, EWOM is taking a very radical approach. Basically, EWOM is the first fantasy strategy game that I can think of that will not be including orcs, dwarves, elves, or any "classic" races from Tolkien or DnD, and judging from responses so far this is quite controversial. This is pretty bold and I like it. Sure, the "titans" backstory isn't exactly inspired but the EWOM world is different in that it differentiates different human and fallen cultures in a meaningful way.

I'm also still a bit put off by the fuzzy 'lore' overlaps with GalCiv, but I don't think that's a negotiable item at this point and I'm mostly just happy to see Stardock starting to pay more serious attention to the text/narrative parts of their games. I more or less hate Random House for a host of political and aesthetic reasons, but I very much hope that their evil empirelet helps Brad earn so much cheese that he ends up starting the Elemental 2 effort with an Integrated Metaphysics dev journal. I understand that he's begun suffering feedback from professional editors...

I'd honestly just have Frogboy write all the narrative (in-game narrative, not the novel). I get the feeling that much of the work is his "baby" and I'd rather have someone really into their own lore write their own stuff versus importing professional writers to do it for them. Of course, he didn't write this stuff for a reason, so I'm not faulting him for anything. I just tend to enjoy the work of people who are really engrossed in a setting more, even if they do consider themselves mediocre writers.

Hmm... I'm no expert on Random House and I'm curious what it did to cause you to hate it...

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I cannot see how Elementals lore is similar to GalCivs.

Was there a cataclysm in GalCiv?

Was there multiple races AND different cultures?

I just don't see the similarities at all.

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Quoting Campaigner,

reply 7

I cannot see how Elementals lore is similar to GalCivs.

Was there a cataclysm in GalCiv?

Was there multiple races AND different cultures?

I just don't see the similarities at all.

Then you havent been paying attention.

The back story for Gal Civ is an ancient Mithrilar called Draginol (who was originally human apparently?) went bad and caused the schism between the Arnor and the Dread Lords. Causing that ancient war.

He went and hid on Altaria and caused the rise of the Altarians - that mystical semi magical race in Gal Civ.

Then at some point he went away.

It seems to me so far that they are trying to make Elemental the story of the history of Altaria. Which I would rather they didnt.

It really seems to be pretty much the EXACT same back story - just redressed for the different setting. I. Am. Dissapoint.

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Last time I checked this was the Ideas forum... The place where people come to offer constructive ideas and help craft Elemental into a successful game. To the OP, your not being constructive nor helpful, your just whining. I think anyone with even a lick of sense in today's world knows that making anything and I mean ANYTHING truly original is close to impossible. Go ahead try to come up with an original fantasy world... I'll enjoy laughing your idea into the ground. Chances are in order to be original you'll have to make a world so ridiculously contrived and full of fluff that no one will give a damn, or you'll be recycling someone elses ideas. Either way, your certainly not making a world that would appease to an eye as critical as your own. Brad and Stardock have even gone as far as to try and bring normal people into the creative process of the game itself so that we have the chance to help form a game that will fit the bill for all our personal gaming desires. Truth is, lore aside Elemental is being developed to be one of the most customizable fantasy experiences ever, if not just the most customizable. Rather then showing appreciation for their attempt to include our, lets face it, arrogant opinions in the construction of the games framework you'd rather whine about the lore? Personally If I were you I'd be ashamed to bother anyone with such a petty complaint, but then I have manners. One way or the other, at the end of the day, despite Stardocks attempt to include us jackasses in the creative process it is ultimately "Their" creation, not "Our" creation, so how they build it and the story behind it is theirs to create as they like and petty complaints on obscure threads like this one do nothing but waste peoples time. If your going to post in the Idea forum, why don't you post an actual Idea...

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Philocthetes

Join Date 10/2003

+153

Hmm... I'm no expert on Random House and I'm curious what it did to cause you to hate it...

Basically they won the gobble-up-the-little-guys game in English publishing and sold themselves to the even more deplorable Bertelsmann. Concentration of ownership in media production and distribution has been a worry of mine since the late mid-'80s. It is making mass media of all kinds more about brands and target markets and less about, well, art.

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Elemental's backstory isn't particularly original. However, I'd argue that Elemental's setting is quite original. Honestly, I've played or read plenty of great games and books whose backstories aren't particularly gripping but have quite good stories. So, I'm not worried on this count. I think it's unfair to discount Elemental's lore on the basis that it uses a formula that's been used before. I'm more interested in the meat and detail of a setting. This is where different settings can really stand out. So far, Elemental hasn't really disappointed me.

Quoting GW Swicord,

reply 10

Basically they won the gobble-up-the-little-guys game in English publishing and sold themselves to the even more deplorable Bertelsmann. Concentration of ownership in media production and distribution has been a worry of mine since the late mid-'80s. It is making mass media of all kinds more about brands and target markets and less about, well, art.

Ahhh. Ok. Thanks.

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So wait, you don't like it because they are semi-explaining the backstory of a planet in another game while telling a completely unique story? It's not like they are referencing the game at all, in fact, if you never played Gal Civ, you'd never know they were even related.

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Quoting Saije,

reply 9

I think anyone with even a lick of sense in today's world knows that making anything and I mean ANYTHING truly original is close to impossible. Go ahead try to come up with an original fantasy world...

Yep, this is especially true about the strategy games I guess. I think that the Lore is quite good in EWoM. Sure, I won't run around in the room, waving with my hands while yelling -> "WOW, THIS IS BLOODY AWESOME"....but it's good.

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Elemental's backstory isn't particularly original. However, I'd argue that Elemental's setting is quite original.

I agree.

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Quoting Tormy-,

reply 13

Quoting Saije,
reply 9
I think anyone with even a lick of sense in today's world knows that making anything and I mean ANYTHING truly original is close to impossible. Go ahead try to come up with an original fantasy world...

Yep, this is especially true about the strategy games I guess. I think that the Lore is quite good in EWoM. Sure, I won't run around in the room, waving with my hands while yelling -> "WOW, THIS IS BLOODY AWESOME"....but it's good.

But, I will be running my Peuter Dragon all over the Cloth Map that comes in the BOX I bought, yelling.

"WOW, THIS IS GOING TO BE BLOODY! LOL

P.S. to the OP. A tad late to the party me thinks...

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Quoting John_Hughes,

reply 15

Quoting Tormy-,
reply 13

Quoting Saije,
reply 9
I think anyone with even a lick of sense in today's world knows that making anything and I mean ANYTHING truly original is close to impossible. Go ahead try to come up with an original fantasy world...

Yep, this is especially true about the strategy games I guess. I think that the Lore is quite good in EWoM. Sure, I won't run around in the room, waving with my hands while yelling -> "WOW, THIS IS BLOODY AWESOME"....but it's good.

But, I will be running my Peuter Dragon all over the Cloth Map that comes in the BOX I bought, yelling.

"WOW, THIS IS GOING TO BE BLOODY! LOL

Successfully updated karma reason!