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gkrit
gkrit
Join Date 01/2009
+32

Melee over Ranged any day!

November 25, 2009 3:38:13 AM from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

From different threads ive heard ppl mention that characters like TB and Reg have now been put in a disadvantage because melee have always been able to get he better of them in any situation. I do agree with this so here is why im making this thread.

 

Why be a range character (in general)?

When choosing a character that is capable of attacking from a distance, you assume that you'll be able to avoid any close combat depending on how you play. Due to this, you'll accept that your character will have lower stats than a melee class as a compramise for this great advantage.

Why be a melee character (in general)?

This class will allow you thrash out an opponent with ease. As a way of making a melee class effective they have been made to be able to dish out fast dmg so they can get in and out.

Why be a ranged character in Demigod?

Simply because of what ive stated above. However, it has been made very difficult to achieve this and it is all due to melee classes having powerful ranged abilities (and much higher stats across the board). Knowing this makes TB and Reg less desirable (i feel as though TB is effected more in this aspect though).

Issues with TorchBearer
Have you ever been able to fireball a UB without being spat on by a prepared UB?
Most common answer would be "No".

Reason why is because fireball takes 1 sec to cast allowing a UB to come in a spit on you to pay you back. As a result, TB has recieved more dmg forcing him to go back to base well before he had intended to. A TB has other requirements to fill such a max mana and mana regen so that mana doesnt become so much of an issue. HP stacking can be nice to absorb as much dmg as you can but if you have no speed, which a melee class obviously has, you are only delaying the inevitable, death.
Now some suggestion to fix this problem, and theyre all simple figure alterations (which ive posted elsewhere also):
- Increase TB's Fireballs range, or...
- Decrease Fireballs cast time (im a bit sceptical about this because imo, fireball should be a skill that can be interrupted.)

These suggestions i believe could help a TB against those annoying ranged-melee classes.

 

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gkrit
_Golgoth_
Join Date 07/2009
+12
Reply #1 November 25, 2009 7:32:43 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I wonder if Tb and Ub had the same stats would it be fairer?

Then it would simply come down to who had the better abilities maybe? However again TB would lose because of his mana dependency

However a competent should be able to scare off a UB once it gets going

The issue does arise however. How do you make TB stronger without messing up the game? However recently I have been seeing stronger and stronger TBs. It is strange that the only two DGs that TB still has a problem with (UB, Erb) are often said to be OP lol

Mind you I think that a fast enough TB or Reg can usually get the better of UB or Erb just by simply staying out of their way and pestering. However that said I do see your point now. Maybe the range on Fireball should be increased. Or TB should be able to get longer range like Reg? Maybe not actually. UB, Reg, TB combo can be pretty tower dealy already

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gkrit
kitch45
Join Date 04/2009
+5
Reply #2 November 25, 2009 8:09:07 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

If i remember correctly, ranged units actually damage LESS the furtehr away they are. A normal attack, for example, would be upto 17-20% less in damage if at regs max range. Food for thought.

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gkrit
Pfizzyhead
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #3 November 25, 2009 8:10:43 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

The obvious answer to me is that spit should be interruptable and should take much longer.

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gkrit
gkrit
Join Date 01/2009
+32
Reply #4 November 25, 2009 8:22:23 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

the cast time of UB's spit doesnt change anything though in a TB vs Spit situation. once he gets the cast time goign hes got the skill in alrdy anyway.

the only thing i can rlly think of that would balance out this major issue is nerf spits range slightly.

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gkrit
Makeshift-D
Join Date 05/2009
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Reply #5 November 25, 2009 10:40:59 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Fire TB is bad in general, I don't think he's weak just because of this one skill.  I'd probably buff it too though.

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gkrit
Pfizzyhead
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #6 November 25, 2009 10:58:55 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

If you increase the cast time, and it's interruptable, then it will be interrupted.

 

But I do concede that reducing the range would help. I am so tired tho of the UB approach to buildings. He can do it so nonchallantly and take no damage. It's skillless, so I think that him having to sit there for a bit while he heaved up the mucous would help change that.

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gkrit
XaviorsFist
Join Date 12/2008
+11
Reply #7 November 25, 2009 11:43:15 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Well that was just one example. This happens with a ton of abilities. The problem begins when the fireball does 1k to a 5k hp UB and the spit does 1.5k to a 3k TB. Mana items just need a buff in general so you need less. Or they need to cost less or something so the ranged demigods can get HP and stack better. It's just that the ranged characters just don't have a big enough damage advantage to make up for their lower HP.

You nailed everything on the head though. These are really big problems. Lets not forget this is the same for QoT as well. And she does barely any damage. She gets one auto attack off and thats 100 damage and a UB gets a 1500 damage spit. How is this fair.

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gkrit
lifekatana
Join Date 05/2008
+18
Reply #8 November 25, 2009 12:30:26 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

SPIT IS OP. Why the fuck do people not understand this? If I lose 1500 hp from one skill at level 10 with only 4k hp thats insane.

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gkrit
DalzK
Join Date 09/2008
+26
Reply #9 November 25, 2009 12:40:30 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

SPIT IS OP. Why the fuck do people not understand this? If I lose 1500 hp from one skill at level 10 with only 4k hp thats insane.

No its not. You lose it over time so its a lot less effective.

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gkrit
JagerJack
Join Date 04/2009
+26
Reply #10 November 25, 2009 1:18:25 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting lifekatana,
reply 8
SPIT IS OP. Why the fuck do people not understand this? If I lose 1500 hp from one skill at level 10 with only 4k hp thats insane.

Why the fuck do people not understand that it's damage over time, and that you can use any variety of health affecting items to mitigate it? If I have 900 health, and I get hit by fireball IV, I'm done. But if I get hit by spit IV, I can use a sigil, gadget, etc. to live through it.

 

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gkrit
OMG_blackmage
Join Date 06/2009
+42
Reply #11 November 25, 2009 3:43:15 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting XaviorsFist,
reply 7


You nailed everything on the head though. These are really big problems. Lets not forget this is the same for QoT as well. And she does barely any damage. She gets one auto attack off and thats 100 damage and a UB gets a 1500 damage spit. How is this fair.

So you are comparing a freaking auto attack to a ability attack, then lets compare tb none form danced AA to rooks directly hit hammer......Tb needs a boost.

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gkrit
OMG_blackmage
Join Date 06/2009
+42
Reply #12 November 25, 2009 3:45:18 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting JagerJack,
reply 10

Quoting lifekatana, reply 8SPIT IS OP. Why the fuck do people not understand this? If I lose 1500 hp from one skill at level 10 with only 4k hp thats insane.
Why the fuck do people not understand that it's damage over time, and that you can use any variety of health affecting items to mitigate it? If I have 900 health, and I get hit by fireball IV, I'm done. But if I get hit by spit IV, I can use a sigil, gadget, etc. to live through it.

 
I get what you are saying, but that is not always the case, majority of the time people either don't have the item or has stacked up on locks and teleports with an artifact or two and just dont have the room to try and wait for a situational event to happen.

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gkrit
gkrit
Join Date 01/2009
+32
Reply #13 November 25, 2009 7:02:06 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting JagerJack,
reply 10

Quoting lifekatana, reply 8SPIT IS OP. Why the fuck do people not understand this? If I lose 1500 hp from one skill at level 10 with only 4k hp thats insane.
Why the fuck do people not understand that it's damage over time, and that you can use any variety of health affecting items to mitigate it? If I have 900 health, and I get hit by fireball IV, I'm done. But if I get hit by spit IV, I can use a sigil, gadget, etc. to live through it.

 

ur kinda making it sound like spit is useless in a sense. Spit does 1650 dmg nonetheless at its 4th lvl. Of course you would use a pot "IF you had one".

now for TB's fireball, it is so predictable! 1 sec cast PLUS the distance it needs to travel to get to u is a long enough time for you to use a sigil or pot.

now heres anothing thing about how fireball can be avoided that spit cant. DA can use warp area to avoid ALL of fireballs dmg (assuming theres things to warp to) but with spit, ull only be immune for three secs from the dmg it causes. So in this case DOT skills are much more effective.

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gkrit
grimunk
Join Date 08/2008
+2
Reply #14 November 25, 2009 8:31:36 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting kitch45,
reply 2
If i remember correctly, ranged units actually damage LESS the furtehr away they are. A normal attack, for example, would be upto 17-20% less in damage if at regs max range. Food for thought.

 

Nope. Reg hitting you with scope 3 at max range does the same damage as hitting you at melee range.

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