I say scouts arent that strong either. Its really only effective in really early game when each players are working their way up to LRM. But once you see an army of scouts. Its too easy to counter.

IMO, the only thing scouts should rightly counter is Fog of War and Mines.

It's never even struck my mind to use them in a combat role that doesn't involve mine-sweeping. Why the hell is a scout countering LRF when they are in theory sporting less armor and firepower than a regular Frigate? Something is wrong here.

How could I not be drawn to this post?

What truely seems to be lost is that scouts are ONLY good against light armor. A good early game balanced fleet is scouts mixed with light frigs.

I cannot emphasize this enough. Scouts can be countered by just about anything that has medium armor and up. Skirmishers and flak will take a little bit longer to do the job (skirmishers are pathetically weak compared to their counterparts even with reintegration).

Bring out some fighters if your opponent is massing scouts, or even some of your own ( they counter themselves ). Fighters absolutely maul scouts. So he brings flak to counter the fighters? Make light frigs. Light frigs aren't the world's best counter to scouts, but they work. Also, try some turrets. Turrets absolutely screw scout rushes.

One arguement about scouts that I feel is truely lost is that you can make them from the beginning, so the fleet will be bigger provided you never stop making them. Yes Scouts are tough, but they do pathetic amounts of damage.

Scouts lose to:

Fighters ( no question, scouts can't destroy carriers for shit )

Other scouts

Light frigs ( Skirmishers need reintegration but otherwise all light frigs win )

Flak (so tough that scouts do almost nothing noticable )

HC's ( obviously )

Look. If you see massed scouts that means your opponent is being aggressive. You're going to need a big fleet too. Take a look at how big his fleet is and get a rough guess for how big it is in terms of ship slots and try to get one at least 3/4 the size (preferably equal in size). Honestly I'd like a look a replay or two where you say you've seen this happen to you. 

I don't think scouts are imbalanced, however I think seekers could use a slight nerf (about -10% health), but other than that leave 'em alone.

Countering massed scouts never has and never will be hard imo. It's like any other strategy in the game. There are advantages, but there are also counters.

I'll admit I've never been on the recieving end of a scout army. Normally I'm the one using them.

The founder of the Scout rush has spoken.

Without replays I guess the rest of us have a hard time believing you got owned that bad with a decent fleet for countering scouts. Perhaps we'd be able to give better advice with one of them.

Hound hit it.  you must scout the enemy and know where he is, what his ship makup is, and where the tech level of the enemy is. 

Read Amish's Defender post on how to hold out if you don't want/can't make a good fleet to counter.... a scout fleet loses to a defender with starbase.

Personally, I am averse to using scouts as a main combat unit.  They are scouts and are supposed to scout.  They shouldn't compromise the bulk of someone's fleet(which some do).  They shouldn't be a factor in a battle period outside their primary functions.....scouting and mine sweeping.  I think they should be nerfed in damage to anything other than scouts.

[_]-Gryefox

I always love to battle scout fleets....easy xp.

a tip - try to counter more with flak/carriers,they are usefull later.

I've never understood why people get so scared of a scout fleet. Build a fleet of light frigs and the scout army is done. That is the early game answer. And don't give me the "but he will bring Illums then" arguement. If he's reeeeally investing hard in scouts, that means he hasn't invested in Military labs yet. 

You want to know what my most recent tactic is? Use a fleet of mixed disciples and scouts. The scouts can stop an Illum spam. The light frigs can stop a starbase rusher. The fleet is overall powerful, cheap, and can be brought out early to be effective.

You want to know how you can push me back if I'm doing that? Get a fleet of pure light frigs.

Course, I'm probably watching you if you're doing that ( scouting, as in legit sending scouts behind enemy lines,  is the most powerful think you can do early )

Scouts never have been too powerful, however I could understand if Advent scouts were nerfed about 25% in health. They are just a smidge too tough.

My point is I have pushed back scout spammers easily. Don't believe me??? Try my own tactic on me and see what happens.

My parting Point:

With the recent buffs to light frigs, scout rushing now has a very successful counter for VERY early in the game. Light frigs now tear apart scouts more than ever because they're even tougher. Carriers have always been the best counter, but now light frigs do the job better than light frigs did pre 1.04.

25% is not really a "smidge".  At 825 health, for 200 credit / 2 fleet they are one of the most health efficient units in the game for cost and fleet points.  I never said I had a problem with scout fleets...I said ADVENT scout fleets.  Especially when someone gets some feed (which NEVER happens, right?) ....it can be tough to build LF fast enough, especially if you are Vasari.  People who know what I'm talking about know how effective this strategy is.....later in the game a scout army is just fodder.

For the longest time I thought Advent scouts only did 2 dps, which if you think about it would balance the seeker, but it does 3. Same as TEC. One less than Vasari.

When I said 10% health, I meant the actual health i.e. hull. So that'd be a 12.5% nerf in total toughness. I wasn't very clear when I wrote that, so my bad. I agree 100% that they're tough little bastards, but even with that I still stand by my statements 100% that scouts are counterable.

Oh, and to the "what if he's fed arguement" I say well.....if someone is fed, his tactics will be stronger regardless of what tactic he's using. You feed an Illum rusher. He's going to get more Illums and be a more effective Illum rusher. You feed a garda spammer, same thing. Diplomacy is thankfully going to change that a good bit. I'm going to guess that you'll have to get civ labs if you're going to try to either recieve or give money, which would be a dynamic change in online multiplayer.

End of the day, I still think scouts aren't too powerful, but rather fit a role like every other ship in the game. The devs obviously intended for scouts to have some sort of combat role, because they gave them abiltiies and made them the ship to counter mines.

Stop saying the fact that a scout can fight is bogus. There are games like rise of nations where the scout does nothing but scout and games like Age of Empires where the scout is a fighthin unit. Scout to me translates to lightly armed, and that's exactly what scouts currently are.

Oh, and Darvin, I remember that game. That was a wierd one. No asteroid. Two Ices. An Illum spammer on the other side of the Ices. I had to hit him, so I went scout/lf rush and it worked. I saw you were doing a damn good job on your side of the map. We'll have to play on the same side one of these days.

Scouting IS an important combat role.  It is one of the most important.  Knowing what your enemy is doing is crucial to knowing what to do to thwart your enemy.  I just don't think scout armies should be a viable thing to do be it as a counter to LRF or not.  There are other counters to LRF.  Scout armies are just cheezy.

[_]-Greyfox

The devs were aware of the issue, and did nothing about scouts in the patch.  That's comment enough for me.