Grubsnik

Join Date 10/2008

Endgame gambits.

Stuff to do when the chips are down?

I'm mainly playing this game as a coop with 2 friends, vs. a ton of computer opponents. The trend i've noticed is, once the initial power-struggle is over, it's more or less just a question of mopping up. The way i see it, the game is pretty much a victim of a sliding scale.

If you have the upper hand, you most likely have a bigger economy, allowing for a greater fleet, which in turn makes it significantly easier to break the opponent.

If we take the imagined scenario, large map, 2 opposing sides clash somewhere in the middle 30-60 mins into the game. The winner is left with a reduced but still functional fleet, the losing side is left with a lot of unspent supplypoints. What can the losing side do at this point, other than just try to prolong the inevitable defeat?

I can think of a few obvious gambits.

Teching to Returning Armada (not really viable in 1.1 from what i hear),

Teching to Super weapon?

But there the list kind of stops. What gambits would you suggest to use in a game, where you still have a ~30 mins time before your opponent finally destroys you, if you do nothing. Obviously on smaller maps, the game is pretty much over once the initial clash is done, since you don't have time to do much before getting smished into pulp.

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He could build a desperate fleet of Heavy Cruisers, Carriers and Repair Ships and raid enemy planets. When their main fleet arrives or you so much as lose a single ship, retreat and imagine the amount of damage you did to your enemy once you had done so, and imagine how much weaker he might be (don't overlook it).

Then get a cap or two (Maybe a battleship and carrier) and launch an assault on the planet. Do your best to destroy it. If you lose forces, pull them back slowly until your ships have all retreated. Continue process until planet is yours.

Also, one of your only remaining hopes for games like these is Culture. If your fleet continuously attempts to pound against the enemy fleet andf they effortlessly sweep you aside, build some culture centers. Hopefully, their planet would be lightly defended (I doubt it) but while they're dealing with the Rebels about 20 minutes after your culture affects the planet, launch an assault and take as many planets as possible. I did the exact thing, until my Uber Fleet met with the enemy defense force, probably the biggest fleet I've ever battled and won. I took heavy casualties (lost four caps and at least sixty ships) in the process. Althoguh,. I smashed his fleet through tactics and will. The planet was mine, and we played for another four hours until I emerged surprisnigly victorious.

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The "last half" of the game has been my biggest gripe too. It isn't much fun battling out what is at some point an inevitable game, but it still takes time.

But that didn't really answer your question.

Sometimes you lose a fleet because that is the fleets job because it is really buying you time to turbocharge your econ or go RA. If the other guy has a bigger fleet, more tech, and more econ, then ...well...there is a good chance he is just better than you. Still, here are some tips:

1) When you start losing, don't lose your whole fleet! Retreat and Regroup!

2) Start fighting a defensive battle....cluster around your repair bays. Fall back a couple worlds if you have to and draw a new battle line with your rebuilt fleet and defenses. Don't lose your ships one at a time! Fall back and pick a new point to fight.

3) Launch a counter attack to buy time. I have had games where I have been losing where I just start raiding and sometimes it does wonders. Not only do you find it buys you time to rebuild, but you actually start hurting the guy back. Usually this requires being able to hold off his fleet by using a portion of your own augmented by defenses.

4) Bigger fleet caps take a bigger chunk out of a player's economy. This generally works in the defenders favor, as the aggressor is the one with the bigger fleet. Sometimes when I am outnumbered, I stop upgrading my fleet cap and start fighting an attrition battle with my industry keeping my fleet as close to possible at my smaller cap size.

Anyhow....

Yes, to answer your question, it is damn hard to stop losing once you start. RA is definately a gambit when you are already losing. I start to tech to RA or use any of the above strategies at the first hint of things not going my way. Sometimes it is possible to turn it around, and you will feel a tremendous sense of accomplishment when you do. The other times it just becomes a question of how long the losing team can draw out the game...which kind of sucks for everybody, unfortunately.

If your style of play is to ram your fleet into your enemies and see if it is either a decisive loss or victory, you will be frustrated on the bad days.

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I think what the OP said is true in every RTS game to be honest . Thats why in alot off games i never actually finsih them i jsut restart once i know its all over .

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I don't think you're down and out quite that easily. One planet lost, out of 10 or 15, on a 30+ planet map isn't that big a deal. One planet out of 5, on a 10 planet map ? Thats a different story. While you've lost a fleet, you still have an empire and it's resources, given some time, you can recover. So, you'd have to play for time, and a lot depends on your opponent in this case. Even if they drove thier fleet directly to your home world, it would still take 4 or 5 minutes to make all those hops..

If they are totally warlike and haven't invested in economy and infrastructure, the loss of your fleet is a momentary irritation. If you're out producing them ( or have the capability ), then you could have 5, 6, or even 15 ship yards cranking out a replacement fleet. By the time the enemy had secured the planet you were both fighting over, your replacement fleet would be ready to counter attack. It would be a grinder, but you could eventually win by attrition.

But, even assuming you both have comparable economies and empires, there is still a lot you can do. Re-enforcing the next choke point with some static D, a few repair bays, and new ships as they roll off the line helps. This would offset some of the numerical advantage. You would also know his fleet composition and could build perfect the counter-fleet so the new fleet would be ( hopefully ) much more effective 'next time' .

You could go with the typical Uber-weapon, and that will work if you have more then one. But even with a Novalith, it takes two working together to nuke a maxed terran planet. If you didn't already have them researched and built, or at least under construction, you'd be wasting over 8k cash each ( plus reasearch ).. that would buy a hell of a fleet ( 50 HCs or 90+ LRMs ? ). I've never seen this work as a game changer in a player vs player game. You'd need a minimum of three to be have enough fire-power to cripple his economy. One shot would just cause them to launch a full-on suicidal attack at a time when your own fleet couldn't respond. A single novalith might get a second shot, but probably not a third, IMO. BTW, if you did have three sitting around, and equal fleets, I doubt you'd be in danger of loosing !

But, I think culture is the best option. Culture buys you lots of time, which is what you need in this scenario. They could blast your planets, but not colonize them. All you'd have to do to re-take them is run a colony frigate by. They would also be several jumps away from repair bays and re-inforcements. Eventually the difference in the length of the supply chains would allow you to play an attrition type game and whittle him down. One reason every planet I take gets a broadcast center for over-lapping coverage.

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Well, I'm not certain which race this question is specific too (if any), but if you're playing the Vasari? I highly reccomend having a Marauder or two available (not attached to the main fleet)... never underestimate Subversion. You can really frustrate an opponent with selective use of a Marauder's Subversion ability.

What can nicely complement a Marauder is using some of those free supply points to quickly build a few Sentinels and a few Destructors to make a fast, hard hitting planet raiding force. You don't have to always stick around and actually kill the planet either, just hurt it - and move on! Don't be afraid of digging deeply into the enemy's territory, either... if his fleet is on the border attacking you, and he's suddenly threatened in the heart of his domain... chances are he will send the fleet back, or atleast a portion of it back. That buys you time to reassemble your main fleet. The key is to never let his navy actually catch up with your Marauder - always be two jumps ahead.

Oh, and naturally... Phase Gates + Marauder = sexy times with deep strike attacks.

Good use of scouting so that you know where your enemy's primary production facilities are located, and which phase-lanes are unguarded (or lightly so), is a must for the above tactics to work, or else you get to hear your own personal little Admiral Ackbar shouting "It's a trap, all forces pull up!" in your head.

Marauders... everything has it's niche.

As for RA? Meh, don't bother... the nerf bat is still having fun beating that dead horse.

-Itharus

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