revjwh

Join Date 02/2006

I am enjoying the new economy, growth rates (population etc)

What do others think?

I, overall, am finding this to be the best GalCiv (1 or 2 with expansions) yet.

I personally like the new economy and feel it is much more realistic in terms of managing an empire. I was the number one empire in an immense universe with 9 opponents (plus minors) and with AI on tough. The two empires closest to me were in the number 2 and 3 spot. I went to war with one and while in the midst of a protracted struggle - the other declared war on me! My economy, population etc. definitely FELT the affects of waging a massive 2 front interstellar war - I loved it!

My populations shrank as invasion fleet after invasion fleet conscripted the poor bastards; my military began consuming over 50% of my resources.... I finally sued for peace with one empire in order to regain some badly needed infrastructure.

I feel this expansion makes me feel as if I am truly running a civilization instead of playing a space opera game. No more sending vast fleets to all enemies without any repercussions unless you are so far ahead you are the lone super-power.

Also, the new tech trees make me feel I am truly battling "alien" races - with different capabilities and powers.

Just needed to rave for a moment

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now just disable tech trading and you'll really feel among different species...

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Actually, I have had tech trading disabled for all my games

I just got my butt kicked for the first time by the Krynn. Thought I was big man in the universe since I was #3 in the ratings and hadn't built a military ship yet - usually I start building and rocket to the top spot quickly - not this time - the Krynn declared war and proceeded to clean my clock .... great game.

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How do you guys handle economics with tech trading off? I find it very difficult on smaller maps with few habitable planets.

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I've been finding that having empty tiles helps a LOT. If your spending slider is dropping below 80% with any regularity you might have just built too much infrastructure, something I've found is very easy to do if you're coming into TA from DA. Sometimes it's a good idea to let a few planets do nothing for a while.

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Anybody who's having issues with this rule should play a few games as the Yor. That will pound the virtue of empty tiles into your head quickly enough.

Darn Yor economy makes me want to cry. Although it does recover pretty quickly, since most of their infrastructure is *WAY* cheap to keep running.

Worth noting that I'm having a ton of fun with TA. I'm really starting to feel at home with a couple of the races - although the horribly broken Thalan tech tree seriously needs some love, pronto. Low population + no soldiering tech + defenseless starbases + diplomacy penalty leaves me scratching my head wondering what victory condition the Thalans are intended to pursue. Technology, I guess.

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Rakenan, Yor economy is best run with charging stalks! Fill all small planets with stalks, maintance grid and efficiency centers! Then boost to the MCC and do a little pimp dance when you see your economy skyrocketing beyond believe!

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Well, you would if the MCC worked (malfunctioned beneficially?) anymore. From what I've been hearing it doesn't do much of anything in TA.

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No they broke it indeed! Must find a way to fix the broken MCC

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I have to agree with the OP on this one... And with the sentiment. It's a difficult thing to build a game that is challenging yet fun. While I do feel something akin to hate in the beginning, having to run in the red so much to get those last two worlds colonized or that constructor done to get that resource, It's worth it once the populations rise and the cash starts coming in.

Not only do you feel the pinch when you're at war, you feel it during expansion. Gone are the days of blindly plopping improvements when ever, where ever you want. You simply cannot afford to expand too fast.

As a builder by nature, THE number one, hardest to learn economy improvement has been learning to utilize EMPTY tiles. Anyone with a builder mindset can bury themselves very quickly with planets full of "improvements". What's even better is the AI actually know this. In many games I find AI worlds near empty, just raking in credits.

T

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I love the new system too. It takes a while to get used to the high maintenance costs but you get such a sense of "shaping" your empire as it gradually emerges from its humble beginnings. It's great. This game has come such a long way since the early versions of GalCiv2 where your populace would breed like rabbits, your worlds would be fully developed in no time, your ships could zip across the galaxy in one turn, and the game would be over before you knew it. Although this is a sci fi game, how it is now feels a lot more realistic and believable.

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Well, i am not sure i love the new economy. But it definitely makes the games more challenging.

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I've recently switched over to the Korx and have found them to be impossible to maintain without tech trading for moral improving techs. But when I attempt to build my economy around trading it quickly lags behind other races economic growth.

I don't quite get the effect that leaving a tile empty instead of planting a economic bonus improvement there could do?

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I don't quite get the effect that leaving a tile empty instead of planting a economic bonus improvement there could do?

If your planet is pumping out 6bc, and you build an economic building that gives you 10 or 15% bonus, you get what, an extra credit or two depending on the round up or down? For a building with 1bc maintenance... This is OK, you break even and as the population goes up it becomes a better investment, but did you spend the cash you needed to rush a constructor for an important resource?

I used to build up my planets immediately. I wanted them all "productive" asap... However, if you want to build something, or research something... those buildings come with at least 3bc, some as high as 6bc maintenance costs. Now, if I build one research structure my 6bc planet, 7 with an econ improvement, it costs me 6bc for the research and 1bc for the econ, leaving me a net of 0bc.

6bc empty > 0bc developed.

Not to mention the cost of placing the econ improvements... This takes away from money I can use on colony or constructor rushing to grab that last planet or resource... If I have spent my cash on improvements, and the maintenance to keep them I end up with a smaller empire, as well as a crippled economy trying to carry too many improvements. More planets always equals more credits, and by leaving them empty I can carry them no problem because all they do is generate tax income.

It's not a question of IF I will ever develop the planet, it's a question of WHEN. By leaving planets empty at the beginning of the game, I can develop selectively any bonus tiles I come across and have a MUCH stronger economy due to the increase in credits from the taxes generated by the empty planets, which I have more of because I was able to rush buy and adjust sliders more effectively.

I do actually build econ improvements as the planet population increases to further boost the economy, as well as devoting some planets to nothing but econ and morale to carry the planets that are industrial or research giants... I just don't do it until the planets are full of population and my economy can carry them.

T

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Philocthetes

Join Date 10/2003

+153

Playing the new Thalans also drives home the value of being very careful about building on tiles. I've even found the tactic seems valuable in DA, or at least it makes the colony rush feel different for me.

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Thats one reason I've found the Drengin so much fun to play- black markets have no maintenance cost, so you can always fill tiles with those things. Makes it easier to support an early war machine.

Also, I've heard that trade is broken- the route value doesn't increase the further the freighter is. Has anyone else seen that? Would explain why the Korx don't have the balls they used to.

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...Also, I've heard that trade is broken- the route value doesn't increase the further the freighter is. Has anyone else seen that? Would explain why the Korx don't have the balls they used to.

True though there is a small increase over time of the route value, but then regardless of where the freighter is.

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Man, I hope they fix that. Trade is pretty irrelevant in TA, except for the diplomacy boost.

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I play an expansionist Drengin with +20 Econ +20 Morale +50 Mil. This allows for a strong and fast colony rush and later, a strong and fast militarization. Again, have to take note of the little numbers, the maintenance costs of buildings, and I leave my new colonies empty except for a recruiting center and any research bonuses and later on when the numbers add up, an economic building.

I had only cursory experience of DL but I am loving the feel of the slower propulsion. Not even needing to mention, the whole twilight of the arnor expansion thing

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I haven't played a ton yet (on my second game, ever), but I don't know why people always complain that trade is insignificant.

I have a large, sprawling empire which fluctuates between the #1, 2, or 3 position, from turn to turn, on a "gigantic" map.

I'm presently making 98bc/turn from trade, with about half of that coming from my own four trade routes, without anything other than the first couple of trade improvements, and no racial trade bonuses.

My total income/turn at the moment is... wait for it... 98bc.

So, without trade, I'd be making ZERO money per turn, but with it I'm getting almost 100bc.

I think that's pretty significant to the health of my empire.

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I think that's pretty significant to the health of my empire.

For sure... but what I like about trade having more clout... as in four figure clout... is that it offers a viable alternative to war, not just for the player, but for the A.I's as well.

I used to really enjoy the idea that as much as I wanted to wipe an opponent out, the trade coin was just too valuable to risk. I found that this dynamic was at the heart of a diplomatic struggle, adding depth and flavour to the "yellow sector" of the game.

It's (with respect to your current situation Rhedd) now almost a non issue, at least while I can shuffle my cards a bit, it's nowhere near the broad economical shift it could be and has been for me in the past.

However, having said that, I do love the pace/costs of everything else in twilight, it really has broken new ground in terms of subtlety. Which is why I think it would be fine to give trade a beefier slice of the influence pie.

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Well, that's true.

I've got to admit that if I wanted to go to war with someone that's trading with me, the loss of of income wouldn't make me think twice about pulling the trigger.

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I've got to admit that if I wanted to go to war with someone that's trading with me, the loss of of income wouldn't make me think twice about pulling the trigger.

I once had a DA game where the Jagged Knife took ALL the planets I was trading with. I couldn't go to war with them because I got most of my income through trade. I also had the speed limit event (on a gigantic map!), so it took a VERY long time to make new routes so I could declare war without murdering my economy.

It was most definitely fun.

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I personally don't think trade is working properly... It's the same every turn regardless of where the ship is in the route. I used to see it start at 3 or 4 and go higher number as the ship went farther from me and closer to it's destination. With a good route and good modifiers it would easily reach 30-40bc on a medium map. I could get 60bc plus if I was in a corner and sent the ship diagonal to the other corner.

I can only imagine what it would have gone to on a large map... I have started playing those with ToA, and the ship gets 3 or 4bc every turn no matter what. No change, when the popup clearly states it will rise as the ship gets further away.

T

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It's not uncommon for me to see several thousand income per turn on the gigantic maps I prefer. When I'm bringing in 10,000 bc income, a 100 bc bonus from trade really isn't doing much. I do like the diplomatic bonuses, but other than saying "nice doggy" to somebody while I beat on their neighbors, there's not much of a real effect.

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Yeah I do wish trade could be made viable as a source of income, to provide a change of pace from beating up the neighbors

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