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Fumikaa
Fumikaa
Join Date 02/2008
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Anyone feel that random spawns in maps such as Doppleganger are extremely unfair?

March 11, 2008 11:40:30 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
This might come off as a whine post, but I just wanted to see if anyone shared my thoughts regarding this.  Random spans on large maps aren't so big a deal, but random spawns on mirror maps are just garbage.

I just played a game on doppelganger where I had the following in my system

1x pirate base
2x asteroid
1x empty magnetic cloud
1x desert planet
1x home terran planet
1x dead asteroid.

Then... the guy who wins the game with returning armada, that's a seperate discussion starts the game with
2x asteroid
2x volcanic
1x hom terran planet
1x dead asteroid
1x magnetic cloud with 3 metal extractors 1x crystal


How is this remotely fair? 
He pulls in twice as much metal than me, the same amount of crystal and waaay more in credits, trade ports not included.


strategy
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Fumikaa
charlesamati
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #1 March 11, 2008 12:05:55 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
No one said that randomly-created maps were inherently fair; they're inherently random. I'm guessing that's one reason why the devs threw in the custom map creator.
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mrakomo
Join Date 07/2007
+5
Reply #2 March 11, 2008 12:12:44 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I agree. Random is random. It is fair. You can also have the better starting position, if you are lucky.
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House_Wikkheiser
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #3 March 11, 2008 3:20:51 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
You just have to be patient, one time I got utterly shafted with heavy militias at the neighboring terran/desert planets, & only one easy to clear asteroid in reach. Another time I got 2 asteroids, with the joke militia of 2 cobalts/1 siege/1 flak for the icy and volcanic nearby.

I mean that is why you are playing random isn't it? So it doesn't get repetitive, right?
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boxox
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #4 March 11, 2008 3:43:00 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
In the early to mid game, an imbalanced distribution of random planets can hurt or harm a player - having more planets means more money diverted to upgrading their infrastructure, more territory to defend, the player with fewer planets can put money into research to boost output from a lower number of planets rather than infrastructure, etc. But if someone survives past that point - especially if the game starts with 2 players out of easy raiding distance of each other - eventually both players will be operating with a similar level of research and one will just have less population, mines, culture, lower income from any given fleet cap.

It would be good to have an option to randomise specific placement and phase lane distribution but keep planet types and total planets vaguely similar.
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FalseMyrmidon
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #5 March 11, 2008 4:23:36 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
He's talking about a premade map the comes with the game, it's not random.

And I agree 100% and I've noticed the same thing on that map specifically. Also for some reason 1 system doesn't have ANY pirates in which is extremely unfair.
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ZJBDragon
Join Date 02/2008
+2
Reply #6 March 11, 2008 4:31:41 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Dopplegangers is probably my favorite map currently. I don't see what the big deal is about there being problems. Sure things are unfair. Things will never be fair. I built more cobalts than my enemy in 5 minutes. That's not fair to him. I might have an extra metal asteroid and he has an extra crystal. That's not fair either. My opponent is an AI who can issue dozens of commands per second while I have to select, give an order, select something else, and so on to hit that efficiency. That's not fair either. The bottom line is that no situation is ever exactly fair.
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Axis1354
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #7 March 11, 2008 4:36:12 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
link to an example of the inherently imbalanced nature of this type of map

WWW Link
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Durikkan
Join Date 04/2007
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Reply #8 March 11, 2008 5:14:43 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
How is this remotely fair?


It's not at all. Since it's a premade map, and a mirror map, you'd think it would be balanced, but it's not.
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Sp3ktr3
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #9 March 11, 2008 7:13:27 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Every game needs to come with a hopelessly unbalanced "mirror" map. It is the way of things.
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