I've noticed this too with the 1.50x patch (I play at painful). There are some techs the AIs simply won't trade for: weapons, extreme colonization, and defense. Others come at a ridiculously high price, where I give 20+ turns of research (at a much high research rate, mind you) for a tech I can research myself in 4. And this is with a diplo ability bump, a good number of diplo techs, the diplomatic translator, and feedback that my diplomatic ability is 'incredible'. I've only played one game fully with 1.50x as Yor, so I wasn't sure that it was due to the Isolationist super ability. The AI still seems to be trading tech like crazy, though. Otherwise how could a civ with 3 planets get all of the extreme colonization techs and get them about the same time as the other civs? Next time I’m going to keep better tabs on what tech the AI is getting to see if I can prove AI tech trading for critical techs such as extreme colonization and weapons.

I need to play more games with 1.50x before a trend is established. But if it is true then tech trading is nerfed and it has morphed into what is effectively an AI cheat. The implication is that the Terran Diplo super ability may be significantly degraded, and diplo techs next to worthless.

Tech trading did need some significant balancing to avoid human player abuse. But, if diplo has been changed like is appears then I’m simply going to turn tech trading off.

Hydro

I'm a world developer for a popular MMORPG and I understand balance issues and the difficulty of keeping games challenging without killing the fun factor. Four years of experience has taught me to make adjustments in small increments. Don't add +10 to a creature's Attack Bonus, add +1 and see what that gets you.

Tech trading has been eviscerated.
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Galaxy Medium, Habitables: Uncommon, Painful, Races:5, Me: Terrans

Game's been "razor's edge" nearly all its entire length, only madly scrambling to build enough of a military and diplomacy to keep from being lunched by superior civilizations. Naturally, have all the diplomacy wonders.

While diplomacy is still effective, tech trading is not. It doesn't matter what the other race's attitudes are to you, even at Close they are demanding five planets for Shoelace Tying 101. "Jessuins, working with us, stole all the Altarian's tech". They wouldn't trade me anything unless a planet was involved in the trade. One time I offered up a planet (a fully developed Class 15) just to see its "market value". The answer - 280 BC. Treaties are similarly worthless and in fact its a mistake trading them. Galactic trade items, its only worthwhile to develop them in order to keep them out of the hands of other civilzations, trade value is minimal.

The Krynn, also, seemed particularly difficult. Any more they seem to be the #1 foes to target early. They wiped out the Altarian civ who over 3 times their size and on an equal footing technology-wise. I think their negotiations AI to AI are similarly bolluxed, because they never established a Truce, spending over 100 turns or longer fighting the Altarians. Myself, I've ceased trying to trade with the Krynn at all during any game.

AI's are receiving economic bonuses far exceeding my own, or the AI really is cheating; the vast Altarian empire, then the Krynn, I could literally count the number of trade improvements they had on one hand. Yet somehow they still remained solvent. They did have Econ captials, sometimes more than one if they conquered the planet, but their trade development was about 10% of what I had to do to stay afloat. Same goes for morale improvements; they were rare, usually consoliated on one or two planets, and again I could count the number they had on one hand. I have seen alien leaders get voted out of office, though .

Currently, at Painful and above, there seems little point in playing Terrans. Diplomacy is still effective, but tech trading is badly broken and I'd advise just turning it off. They never cease wanting the blood of your first born for the most minor techs, regardless of:
- Their attitude towards you
- My Diplomacy is "Incredible" compared to theirs
- The fact they are one step way from being conquered
- Whether you're allies or not
- Treaties or no Treaties

I've exclusively played Terrans, but now am having, for the first time, to consider shelving them and playing another race. I hope that in the near future the savaging of tech trading is reduced and its made a viable tactic once again.

Whenever someone complains the game is "too easy", they are told to step up the difficulty. So if the game is too hard with the new trading rules... take it down a level. Prior to the patch, I just turned tech trading off because it seemed like a game-breaker - that was playing at Painful.

Now, playing on Tough, I found that I could achieve relatively "even" trades once I had a good stable of diplo techs and was allied to a civ. That seems reasonable to me. I know there are techs that I almost never will trade to the AI - so why shouldn't the AI have techs they won't trade to me?

Well, it's always easier to complain than complement. In fairness, the game had more tension, victories were thrilling, and its probably the best game, interest-wise, that I've had. I still lasted to the very end (Painful), my lone opponent, the Krynn. Diplomacy is still effective. I still did some trading but it was probably ill advised to do so because it was at a huge disadvantage (and I quit doing it entirely in midgame).

Overall, for me, I liked the increased difficulty and other changes. I would just desire the tech trading not throttled back so hard, and, again, a planet = 280 BC shows something clearly wrong.

Concomittant with that, something weird seems to be going on with the planet values. Playing as Terran, on Tough, with plusses to Diplo, diplo techs and the DiploTranslator, I was basically capable of buying my planets from my foes without sending out any colonization vessels whatsoever. The newly settled hostile environment planets are particularly vulnerable.

It's not ideal for war, since your empire will be spread across the map and far flung, but it's ideal for trade since you can reach everyone and talk to everyone quite quickly. On Tough, tech trade advantage is still quite doable, though, given a hefty Diplo bonus.

Has it always been like this? Can you really buy your colony "rush" just like that?

I wouldn't mind tech trading being near impossible if it worked that way across the board - but the AIs seem to trade freely while wanting insanely imbalanced trades from the player.

Like the OP said, this doesn't seem to be a fine tuning, it's a radical shift.

I'm playing without tech trading and I enjoy it a lot more. It's a shame, because I think limited, reasonable tech trading is a good thing. Tech trading in GalCiv has always felt out of control though - there's always some element of cheese - either AIs that easily give up techs, minors that sell everything, mixed with AIs/minors that share tech readily.

Meanwhile for 2-3000bc you can have a civ go to war on another civ, which often drastically affects both civs chance for long term success.

I agree. I saw the Civ3 and Civ4 guys do exactly the same thing, and I'm disappointed. The devs for both games find out what you do to win the highest difficulties and then they patch the game specifically for that so you can't win; when what we really need is a better game. Like when people were beating Deity on Civ3 using the chop rush. Does Firaxis improve the economy system to tighten up the exploit? No. Do they code the AI to chop rush and counter it? No...they just turn off the chop rush. And that improves the game how??

If you're going to do that, then why don't you just disable Suicidal? That'll fix everything.

Tech trading was too easy to abuse before, IMO. I think in 1.5X it's actually too hard. I suspect the devs are seeking a good balance and just haven't found it yet.

This is idiotic. Suicidal was made 'impossible' because the AI is not longer handcuffed by the cheesy diplomatic system that was a huge player cheat and allowed it to made the ai act against its interests. To the degree that the AI now acts in its interests, the AI was improved; a simple, but effective fix.

From my own experience tech trading is still possible, but the AI tends to be far more sensible when it comes to trading.

Forget any weapons technology unless the AI is relatively equal or stronger than you, otherwise you just see the "we don't think it's a good idea" message. Even then, don't expect the AI to trade away it's 'latest' tech - you won't get it. It seems the AI prefers to keep a technological edge these days. If you want weapons tech, you're generally looking at two to three levels below the AI's latest.
I'm not sure, but I think it also compares relative levels rather than tech levels, i.e. if you're asking for it's most advanced tech in an area, it's going to want your most advanced tech in another area, even if it's much higher in the tech tree (but then, I guess this is just the AI being sensible). Certainly it's much easier to take the earlier technology than the later, even if just one step below.

I'm not sure it's a case of the trade becoming too hard, but a lack of feedback. You only really see if it's an impossible trade or not, it might be better if you got a different response depending on how 'expensive' the trade would be.

Unfortunately this isn't the case, either. I've seen the AI act against it's own interests in a trade. Recently, at Painful, I was on the losing end of a war with the Krynn. I owned about 3/4 of the galaxy, but since my weaponry & defense tech lagged far behind I saw the writing on the wall. I tried trading but the Krynn were having none of it, which was fine with me, smart of the AI.

Then I offered it every single planet, technology, credit, influence, and ship I had (which all together was considerable). Had it accepted that was Game Over (it didn't).

Possessing an Incredible Diplomatic skill should mean something. I agree the current throttling of trading needs to be harder than it was previously but easier than it is now. For my money, the AI stinginess at Painful (currently) should be the watermark for Suicidal - you can't get anything unless you cough up blood.

My advice for anyone playing this patch at the more difficult levels is #1: Turn off Tech Trading, and #2 Don't play the Terrans.

Previously you could disable trading from the game setup; now its pretty much automatically disabled at Painful and above.

And I seriously doubt the AI is cheating.

I agree at the very least that the AI values treaties and planets too poorly, which does hurt its self interest. A treaty is a free bonus for your whole empire, you should want those things. A few planets in your favor can turn the tide to give you a lead, if someone is SO desperate that they are offering a few planets... especially if habitable planets are rare, the AI should realize it should just take the trade and laugh all the way to the bank.

Some things really are worth something. In this case, the AI seems to think nothing is worth much, so it is missing out on opportunities.

Old worthless tech they didn't have, of the New Propulsion Techniques variety, yeah, they shouldn't be interested in paying anything for. Seems like they just decided they didn't want to play anymore, picked up their little AI toys, and went home to play war.