Taskbar to the left with Start11 » Forum Post by Raki1972

Quoting tomh009,

Quoting Neil Banfield,

I suspect the percentage using a vertical taskbar is somewhat smaller.

Unfortunately as we have noted before, the techniques used by that are simply not viable for commercial software. It has been broken twice this year already and caused crashes I believe when it was broken.

The extra sales we might make using that method would cost us more in support costs and carry the continual threat of OS updates taking it away as an option leading to very angry customers.

While not positive, this is actually a much better answer than the ones before: now we actually know that there is no plan to support the left-side start menu. Until now, the posts made it sound like a low priority, so people have continued to pose here in the hopes that it would actually be supported in the future. Now, there is no need to do that.

I'll stick with ExplorerPatcher, then. It hasn't caused Explorer crashes for me yet, hope it continues to be stable. Because, for me, it solves a key issue with Windows 11, the same one that originally made me a StarDock customer.

Thanks for the clarification, Neil.

Actually what I was trying to say is the method they use that's 'simple' is not viable for commercial software.

To do it in a supportable way would require a lot more work. We are not ruling it out as a possibility in the future, but it is certainly not planned for v2.0.

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We should push Microsoft to bring the vertical task bar back, in the official feedback channel:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/send-feedback-to-microsoft-with-the-feedback-hub-app-f59187f8-8739-22d6-ba93-f66612949332

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Quoting PMuthsam,

reply 127

We should push Microsoft to bring the vertical task bar back, in the official feedback channel:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/send-feedback-to-microsoft-with-the-feedback-hub-app-f59187f8-8739-22d6-ba93-f66612949332

OHHHhhhhh! You guys want the whole >Taskbar< vertically on the left, kind of like how Edge gives you vertical tabs? I thought you were just talking about moving the Win 11 Taskbar itself to the left... I didn't realize you meant putting the whole kit and kaboodle on the left... YES! I'd like to see THAT! Ever since Edge offered Vertical tabs, I've been using them. Maybe use some of the design aspects of Vertical Edge to make a Wholly Left-Aligned Start Menu... That would be grand...

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I know the whole reason that I got Start11 was in the hopes that I could move the whole task bar to the left. It is just "buggy" having to remember to go to the bottom of the screen to get it. And the top of the screen is just a "no go"

thanks to all that has supplied information on alternative ways to get the task bar back to where it belongs (vertically on the left of the screen)

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A small reminder to comment and vote for "Bring back the ability to move the taskbar to the top and sides of the screen on Windows 11" on Windows Feedback Hub - and push Microsoft to bring back what so many want. Seeing the number of votes (27484) and comments (1098) for this suggestion, we can tell that this is not a niche suggestion!

Getting to this suggestion on Windows Feedback Hub is easy:

Windows Search for "Feedback App"
App "Feedback App" is found -> start it
Search for "Vertical task bar"
In the hit list you should see suggestion "Bring back the ability to move the taskbar to the top and sides of the screen on Windows 11" around rank 3. Be sure to pick the one with 1098+ comments and 27484+ votes
Click 'Upvote' and leave a comment

+1

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Comment removed by moderator. Promoting competitor software in forums are not allowed.

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And now we are at 27494 upvotes and 1099 comments, but despite what was replied:

We'll be continuing to evolve Windows 11 and its features based on feedback like this, so thank you so much for taking the time to give us your feedback!

I fear that according to last summer leaks, the aim is more targeted to AI driven features.

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Well, I hope the focus is on AI features not exclusively, 27949 voters so far need the basics first - the vertical task bar among them. AI features might come in parallel ... (not sure if they will make a huge difference for my working productivity though ...)

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Another vote for placing the taskbar on either side. On omnipresent wide screens I prefer to use width than height. I already had Start10 on my desktop but on my Surface I used to use StartAllBack just for that. After renewing my ObjectDesktop subscription I installed Start11 on my Surface as well hoping both would play together, meaning having the taskbar on a side and the non-Win11 start menu. It doesn't play well, when both are installed the Start11 displays offscreen with StartAllBack setting the taskbar to a side.

I really wish Start11, that is otherwise excellent, could support that. I don't like seeing people answering "it's not possible" when StartAllBack has been doing it for years.

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Quoting clem5,

reply 134

Another vote for placing the taskbar on either side. On omnipresent wide screens I prefer to use width than height. I already had Start10 on my desktop but on my Surface I used to use StartAllBack just for that. After renewing my ObjectDesktop subscription I installed Start11 on my Surface as well hoping both would play together, meaning having the taskbar on a side and the non-Win11 start menu. It doesn't play well, when both are installed the Start11 displays offscreen with StartAllBack setting the taskbar to a side.

I really wish Start11, that is otherwise excellent, could support that. I don't like seeing people answering "it's not possible" when StartAllBack has been doing it for years.

From what we have heard, the methods used by some applications will be broken in future versions of Windows. Obviously I cannot say specifically how StartAllBack works, but assuming it works anything like ExplorerPatcher it is probably a constant hassle to update this for each new version of Windows.

We have to support our software and what is fine in a free app like ExplorerPatcher isn't fine in a commercial app and this would be a problem for our customer base if a Microsoft update caused a computer to hang solid or crash as has happened with some other apps.

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As a user of StartAllBack since Win 11 was released, i have found, all MS Updates have been put right by the many updates StartAllBack has received.

Yes there is a risk using Themes, but usually the Hang Solid or Crash Episodes are caused by users applying older Themes on Later OS Builds they were never meant for, Or Issues using the wrong patcher for there system. SatrtAllBack is not the problem.

My Usual Disclaimer Before Doc Jumps on me from a great height.

Windowblinds and Start11 are by far the easiest to use, and the safest way to customize your PC.

Themes carry a risk, and i would never recommend anyone attempt using Themes on there everyday computer as it can all go wrong if you do not know what you are doing. Stardock makes things simple. StartAllBack as a stand alone start replacement Program is a good bit of kit, but so is Start11, they are really 2 sides of a customizing coin with both having some great functions.

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Hello Naroon,

In regards to StartAllBack, for a while now I have been wondering how their taskbar actually works. At first glance it seems to be similar to explorerpatcher as to where it pulls parts off of Windows 10 and patches them into Windows 11. However, someone that has used StartAllBack in the past has argued that their taskbar is actually completely home built, is this true?

I ask this because... On Windows 11 DEV channel Microsoft has implemented a new feature that kills off the ability to patch in Windows 10 parts on Windows 11 which will effectively kill off explorerpatcher in many ways.. StartAllBack will also either get killed off unless they built their own taskbar.

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Quoting PhoenixRising1,

reply 137

Hello Naroon,

In regards to StartAllBack, for a while now I have been wondering how their taskbar actually works. At first glance it seems to be similar to explorerpatcher as to where it pulls parts off of Windows 10 and patches them into Windows 11. However, someone that has used StartAllBack in the past has argued that their taskbar is actually completely home built, is this true?

I ask this because... On Windows 11 DEV channel Microsoft has implemented a new feature that kills off the ability to patch in Windows 10 parts on Windows 11 which will effectively kill off explorerpatcher in many ways.. StartAllBack will also either get killed off unless they built their own taskbar.

Hi PhoenixRising1.

To be 100% sure, i would have to ask. The person i would ask is a MS Dev(amongst a few others) who successfully updated StartIsBack for Win 10 , then moved over to Win 11 and did a lot of work to make Themes work on the Win 11 OS. She has mentioned nothing about 24H2 killing off the use of win 10 parts being used in Win 11 and later, but as this is right up her street so to speak, i will watch her topics. Her own set up is remarkable, I know she has patched several OSs into one, including 22H4, so she is very much looking to the future of Themes being used in future OSs.

Like most things MS does that users do not like, i am not worried as there are always resourceful peeps who, working with like minded others, will negate such issues. I am sure StartAllBack has a future with 24H2, but i will watch her Future Topics, if what you say is true, she will let myself and others know, but as things are right now, she is still helping others with Using Themes pointed to the future.

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I want to add here that i have been using Start for a long time now. Stuff like no left taskbar is a no go for me. I think Stardock might as well come up with a beta version that includes taskbar on the left so folks know that there can be bits of issues.

There is good reason why taskbar is now on the bottom which is 16:10 laptops related. I also want to include that 16:10 laptop growth is slower than espected..no surprise really because it is a strange and outdated aspect ratio with everybody being used to 16:9 (TVs, monitors, laptops). It is only benefitial for folks who do lots of writing like folks in an office. There is a reason why we use 16:9..lots of aspect ratios fit inside of it.. They actually thought that they could force 16:10 upon us that is why they gave us the wonderful taskbar at the botton LOL According Wiki between 2005 and 2008 16:10 aspect ratio was like 90% of laptops. After that 16:9 took over.

16:9 aspect ratio taskbar on the bottom simply does not work with most laptops being 15.6 inch with also browsers/sites use like 3 cm of top of screen. So you end up with like 5 cm of top and bottom being taken away when one is browsing on a 16:9 screen.

Stuff like that btw is the reason why i hated my 15:6 inch laptop years back so i replaced it with a 16,4 inch. I just bought a 17 inch 16:9 laptop.

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Quoting PhoenixRising1,

reply 137

Hello Naroon,

In regards to StartAllBack, for a while now I have been wondering how their taskbar actually works. At first glance it seems to be similar to explorerpatcher as to where it pulls parts off of Windows 10 and patches them into Windows 11. However, someone that has used StartAllBack in the past has argued that their taskbar is actually completely home built, is this true?

I ask this because... On Windows 11 DEV channel Microsoft has implemented a new feature that kills off the ability to patch in Windows 10 parts on Windows 11 which will effectively kill off explorerpatcher in many ways.. StartAllBack will also either get killed off unless they built their own taskbar.

After speaking to my source, i am not worried 1 bit about StartAllBack and its future. There will be a New Edition, in both name and function, so Themes and Win 12 will continue. Sorry PhoenixRising, there was no mention of a home built Taskbar. I was told, all system files would have to be locked permanently to stop them being changed for other OSs parts, and that is not possible. System files can always be Edited.

I was also told something i already knew, and that was it would always be possible to adapt and bypass settings in a New OS, as ingenious peeps would create external apps to make this possible.

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Very sad state with Start11. It's really not that complicated, multiple competitors, even free ones, have no trouble allowing the taskbar to be placed wherever you want, while Stardock is sitting on their hands for more than 2 years already. EP mostly manages to do all what Start11 is supposed to do, but their search function is broken, so Start11+EP it is going to be for me again, until Stardock finally manages to allow custom taskbar placement again.

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Quoting alex53342,

reply 141

Very sad state with Start11. It's really not that complicated, multiple competitors, even free ones, have no trouble allowing the taskbar to be placed wherever you want, while Stardock is sitting on their hands for more than 2 years already. EP mostly manages to do all what Start11 is supposed to do, but their search function is broken, so Start11+EP it is going to be for me again, until Stardock finally manages to allow custom taskbar placement again.

The methods used by some of those apps are really not supportable in paid software. We cannot have features broken on Microsoft changes and there is a significant risk all those apps will be broken in future versions as we know Microsoft has been working towards stripping out the old code they patch back on.

Explorer patcher itself has I seem to recall caused crashes with new Windows patches at least twice in the past year and has been explicitly mentioned in Microsoft release notes for this.

That said as you have seen, we are not stopping you using those other apps with Start11 and in fact have done work to detect them to avoid issues, so you can have your cake and eat it if you wish and accept the risks.

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LordMarcus sits crying over no right taskbar

😭

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sdrohan

Join Date 10/2012

+693

Quoting Neil Banfield,

reply 142

Quoting alex53342,

reply 141

Very sad state with Start11. It's really not that complicated, multiple competitors, even free ones, have no trouble allowing the taskbar to be placed wherever you want, while Stardock is sitting on their hands for more than 2 years already. EP mostly manages to do all what Start11 is supposed to do, but their search function is broken, so Start11+EP it is going to be for me again, until Stardock finally manages to allow custom taskbar placement again.

The methods used by some of those apps are really not supportable in paid software. We cannot have features broken on Microsoft changes and there is a significant risk all those apps will be broken in future versions as we know Microsoft has been working towards stripping out the old code they patch back on.

Explorer patcher itself has I seem to recall caused crashes with new Windows patches at least twice in the past year and has been explicitly mentioned in Microsoft release notes for this.

That said as you have seen, we are not stopping you using those other apps with Start11 and in fact have done work to detect them to avoid issues, so you can have your cake and eat it if you wish and accept the risks.

Neil is more generous than I. Were it my choice, we would indeed detect it and request its removal. It's not spite or that I have a poor opinion of the product or its design choices, it's the frustration it has caused Start11 users when they don't know where a conflict originates. Even reaching that point, where eliminating it illustrates that it is the source, can take several replies to reach this conclusion.

In the end, we are left trying to support Start11 against two moving targets that we can't control: Windows itself and a 3rd party product that has overlapping functionality.

Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

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Quoting sdrohan,

reply 144

Quoting Neil Banfield,

reply 142

Quoting alex53342,

reply 141

Very sad state with Start11. It's really not that complicated, multiple competitors, even free ones, have no trouble allowing the taskbar to be placed wherever you want, while Stardock is sitting on their hands for more than 2 years already. EP mostly manages to do all what Start11 is supposed to do, but their search function is broken, so Start11+EP it is going to be for me again, until Stardock finally manages to allow custom taskbar placement again.

The methods used by some of those apps are really not supportable in paid software. We cannot have features broken on Microsoft changes and there is a significant risk all those apps will be broken in future versions as we know Microsoft has been working towards stripping out the old code they patch back on.

Explorer patcher itself has I seem to recall caused crashes with new Windows patches at least twice in the past year and has been explicitly mentioned in Microsoft release notes for this.

That said as you have seen, we are not stopping you using those other apps with Start11 and in fact have done work to detect them to avoid issues, so you can have your cake and eat it if you wish and accept the risks.

Neil is more generous than I. Were it my choice, we would indeed detect it and request its removal. It's not spite or that I have a poor opinion of the product or its design choices, it's the frustration it has caused Start11 users when they don't know where a conflict originates. Even reaching that point, where eliminating it illustrates that it is the source, can take several replies to reach this conclusion.

In the end, we are left trying to support Start11 against two moving targets that we can't control: Windows itself and a 3rd party product that has overlapping functionality.

Sean Drohan
Stardock Product Lifecycle Manager

As a Software Developer, I definitely understand where you are coming from. The unfortunate reality though is that, while I really like Start11 and the thoughtful enhancements and functionality it provides, there will continue to be a subset of us for whom getting our taskbar back on the left and our start menu larger again are SO important to us that any tool that doesn't do those things just doesn't cut it. I used ExplorerPatcher for a while, had some crashes and problems, tried Start11, and went back to EP after seeing it doesn't let you put the start menu on the left. EP seems to have stabilized through repeated releases, but today I got frustrated with EP again... this time because a week ago, I tried moving back to the Win10 start menu, and am reminded how poorly the start menu pinning functionality works with that. So I tried Start11 again just now, having forgotten that you can't put the taskbar on the left with that. 🤦🏽‍♂️😆 So now, back to EP I go. Looks like I'll have to compromise, and go back to the Win11 start menu. (sigh)

But, again, I get your hesitance to add in functionality that's basically super-unsupported, and likely to break things. I just need my damned taskbar on the left, and a larger start menu. I can't believe how badly Microsoft screwed this up, between putting us back to a start menu that requires multiple clicks to navigate through (like Win 3.1 program manager), and a taskbar that can no longer be moved. I wonder what possesses software companies to get rid of functionality that hundreds of thousands of users use? It's truly bewildering--and quite frustrating--to me.

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Reminder: In addition to moaning and crying here, we should make Microsoft aware that many Windows users want to have the task bar at the left (or at the right, or even at the top).

I posted this some time ago: Please comment and vote for "Bring back the ability to move the taskbar to the top and sides of the screen on Windows 11" on Windows Feedback Hub - and push Microsoft to bring back what so many want. Seeing the number of votes (27484) and comments (1098) for this suggestion, we can tell that this is not a niche suggestion!

Getting to this suggestion on Windows Feedback Hub is easy:

Windows Search for "Feedback App"
App "Feedback App" is found -> start it
Search for "Vertical task bar"
In the hit list you should see suggestion "Bring back the ability to move the taskbar to the top and sides of the screen on Windows 11" around rank 3. Be sure to pick the one with 1098+ comments and 27484+ votes
Click 'Upvote' and leave a comment

I see that on my new Win 11 PC the Search does not bring the "Feedback App" anymore. Neither does the Win+F key start anything (no reaction). Can someone comment here how to start the feedback app in Win 11?

+1

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Quoting PMuthsam,

reply 146

Reminder: In addition to moaning and crying here, we should make Microsoft aware that many Windows users want to have the task bar at the left (or at the right, or even at the top).

I posted this some time ago: Please comment and vote for "Bring back the ability to move the taskbar to the top and sides of the screen on Windows 11" on Windows Feedback Hub - and push Microsoft to bring back what so many want. Seeing the number of votes (27484) and comments (1098) for this suggestion, we can tell that this is not a niche suggestion!

Getting to this suggestion on Windows Feedback Hub is easy:

Windows Search for "Feedback App"

App "Feedback App" is found -> start it

Search for "Vertical task bar"

In the hit list you should see suggestion "Bring back the ability to move the taskbar to the top and sides of the screen on Windows 11" around rank 3. Be sure to pick the one with 1098+ comments and 27484+ votes

Click 'Upvote' and leave a comment

I see that on my new Win 11 PC the Search does not bring the "Feedback App" anymore. Neither does the Win+F key start anything (no reaction). Can someone comment here how to start the feedback app in Win 11?

Yes, that is import to remind and the actual source of the problem. Direct link: https://aka.ms/AAd2ifw

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I doubt seriously that Microsoft will ever allow the Taskbar anywhere except the bottom. MS has actually deprecated the Windows 10 taskbar registry settings in 24H2, and third party apps such as Explorer Patcher will no longer provide the taskbar on the left or right.

EP has provided the following statement on their website.

Taskbar10: The Windows 10 taskbar option is now no longer available on 26002+. (#3053, e57a6b0)
- This is to comply with Microsoft's removal of the stock Windows 10 taskbar in explorer.exe of said builds.

There have also been rumors that the next version of Windows will use a hybrid taskbar with Search and System tray at the top and apps at the bottom (Mac like).

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Quoting clem5,

reply 147

Yes, that is import to remind and the actual source of the problem. Direct link: https://aka.ms/AAd2ifw

Strange: in Windows Search I don't find the Feedback app anymore, and even this direct link does not work for me. Maybe my corporate IT has disabled the feedback hub completely?

Does it work for others here in the forum? Can you do a quick test?

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"Feedback Hub" is working for me. WinVer 22H2 (22621.3593)

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