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Odinlowbane
Odinlowbane
Join Date 11/2011
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Duke the Wolf Lord

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June 4, 2013 2:11:00 AM from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

This is duke in his alpha form, he is tough, but I need help balancing him, Compared to high level heroes he seems to lag behind. If wanted, I will upload my entire custom hero set, Ame: The Spider Queen (Caster) Shi: The Snake Queen(Assassin) and Low: The leech lord (Warrior.)

 

http://fallenenchantress.nexusmods.com/mods/1851/?tab=4&navtag=%2Fajax%2Fcomments%2F%3Fmod_id%3D1851%26page%3D1%26sort%3DDESC%26pid%3D0%26thread_id%3D1008367&pUp=1

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Odinlowbane
wildez
Join Date 11/2012
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Reply #1 June 4, 2013 8:24:54 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I played with the version of Duke included in the earlier versions of the Children of the Storm mod. Please ignore my comments if you have updated him since then.

 

I found him twice very early in the game and thought he was a very strong champion...maybe too strong with his cloak of fear and his high initiative. Sometimes Duke had 3 attacks to every 1 attack of the enemy (not including counterattacks)! But then when I finally got Ascian, Duke no longer seemed overpowered.

 

I'm not good with balancing, but my suggestion would be to reduce his initiative. Or have him appear later in a playthrough (or to make him only obtainable after completing a battle of some difficulty). I enjoyed playing with him a lot (so thanks for creating him), but he instantly lifted my initial sovereign’s army from finding "Medium" monsters challenging to being able to steamroll "Strong" monsters. Once Duke joined me, I didn't need to worry about building my army or levelling my other champions...until it came time to battle against dragons and the wildland bosses.

 

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Odinlowbane
BernieTime
Join Date 10/2009
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Reply #2 June 4, 2013 8:46:31 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I'd say to take small steps to find the balance YOU want.  It's your Mod, so at the end of the day you're the one that needs to be happy with it.

You obviously modeled Duke after the "Great Wolf " unit in-game. 

Biggest Problem IMHO
"Fear" has the (high) chance to stun all enemies for 3 turns unless they resist, combined with Wolf Howl becomes OP


There are a couple of ways you could replace the Fear Trigger, depending on your original idea with Duke

1.  Give Duke a Permanent Cloak of Fear (as per spell).  Downside, the effect only applies to Duke.

2.  For an AoE effect, you could give Duke the Pandemonium Spell to simulate the original intent you had with Fear.  Not sure if it could be set to trigger on entering combat like Fear does?  Only drawback with Pandemonium (For Duke) is the 1 Turn casting time.  If the casting time could be reduced to 0 it would be good to go.  If it would be a pain to create a Triggered Pandemonium you could give him Water Adept III from the Henchmen Path.  Using the normal Water Path would seem to go outside your concept.

3. Similar to #2, Use Wither or other AoE if Pandemonium seems wonky


Another potential problem comes from "Pack Tactics" existing in the Warrior Tree.  Savvy players will pick the Warrior Path for instant access to all the goodies that follow afterwards.   This might be mitigated by locking Duke into the Assassin Path.  Would probably be a last resort after dealing with the Fear issue above.  Personal note: I would really miss Blade Rush if this were to happen.

 
Add:  Set Base Cold Resistance to 25: Per your flavor text, and really only adds some flavor as being hit with Cold Damage is pretty rare
CounterAttack: Obviously needs to stay, but could be changed to Reprisal which I don't think alters Duke's power all that much in the scheme of things.  Would depend on personal preference, and how you work out the other balance issues.

Potential Problem
Creature Type: Beast; This could be an issue as I think Duke could be targeted by the Beastmaster Sovereign or the Beast Control Collar in Combat.  I'm not sure there's any real solution to this.


[I may edit this later after thinking on it more]

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Odinlowbane
Odinlowbane
Join Date 11/2011
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Reply #3 June 4, 2013 1:18:25 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Another potential problem comes from "Pack Tactics" existing in the Warrior Tree.  Savvy players will pick the Warrior Path for instant access to all the goodies that follow afterwards.   This might be mitigated by locking Duke into the Assassin Path.  Would probably be a last resort after dealing with the Fear issue above.  Personal note: I would really miss Blade Rush if this were to happen.


really?! I didn't know this! Okay, I got this. Thanks guys!


Another question, I acutally have a quest that I am working on that will give you him instead of getting him at teh start of the game, i am just not very good at making quests yet.

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Odinlowbane
parrottmath
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #4 June 4, 2013 1:28:21 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Odinlowbane,
reply 3
Another question, I acutally have a quest that I am working on that will give you him instead of getting him at teh start of the game, i am just not very good at making quests yet.

Quests can be a tedious endeavor that is why I made the quest editor, so I can make them quickly. Otherwise it is a lot of copy and pasting that occurs when making quests.

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Odinlowbane
Odinlowbane
Join Date 11/2011
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Reply #5 June 4, 2013 5:56:57 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

haha, I see that now! Thank you parrotmath!

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Odinlowbane
Odinlowbane
Join Date 11/2011
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Reply #6 June 4, 2013 10:04:15 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Duke has been updated, took a nerf. Tell me how it goes, Had to keep  the howl, what kinda dog doesn't howl?

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BernieTime
Join Date 10/2009
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Reply #7 June 8, 2013 1:47:35 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I think it feels more balanced out now.  He's still really good, not entirely OP like before. 

 

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Odinlowbane
Odinlowbane
Join Date 11/2011
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Reply #8 June 9, 2013 2:58:57 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Thanks I thought so to, but I am still working on his model.

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Odinlowbane
BernieTime
Join Date 10/2009
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Reply #9 June 9, 2013 12:46:52 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I'm playing him through now in another game with a few alterations (minor stat changes and added an ability)

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Odinlowbane
willernest
Join Date 01/2002
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Reply #10 June 9, 2013 1:04:05 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Played a game with the "better Duke" last night.  He was definitely nice to have along but didn't seem out of balance with the other champions as the game progressed.  He took more of a licking now and then but survived all but one encounter.  So I'd say he looks pretty good in the nerfed form - not dominant but good to have along.

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Odinlowbane
Odinlowbane
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Reply #11 July 7, 2013 4:30:03 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

So I have been playing other games becuase work has been very taxing lately, however, I got some great ideas from another modder, and a programmer, duke has a new color and will be getting some new attacks and abilities but will have to sacrifice some of his abilities. Duke will also be returning as he was suppose to be a quest reward for trading his favorite thing in the world.

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Odinlowbane
Odinlowbane
Join Date 11/2011
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Reply #12 July 7, 2013 4:35:39 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

By the way the modder whos helping me is yours truely Bernietime

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Odinlowbane
BernieTime
Join Date 10/2009
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Reply #13 July 7, 2013 11:37:26 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Glad you liked what you saw, not that I really changed much of anything.  Look forward to the quest 

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Odinlowbane
Aalandryll
Join Date 12/2009
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Reply #14 December 3, 2013 12:17:47 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I have the original Mod installed.

 

Changed the flavor text and am putting it up here for you to review and possibly use.

 

<!-- Commented out original flavor text. Aalandryll
<Description>Within the cave, you see, the wolf lord, sleeping, you wake him, do you let him follow you?</Description>
 New flavor text follows-->
<Description>Something within the cave you are passing by catches your attention, you are not sure if it was movement, a slight sound, or something else entirely. Looking closer, you can see two glowing pinpricks of green light watching you with interest. As you begin to step inside the cool confines of the cave, you stop in your tracks trying to decide whether fleeing, fighting, or standing your ground is the best option. At the back of the cave with a lazy and very toothy grin spread across its face sits Duke, the Wolf Lord. A voice echoes inside of your head, "So, are we going adventuring or not young one?" The Wolf Lord rises to his feet, stretches and awaits your response expectantly. Do you let him come along to whatever fate awaits you?</Description>
 

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