AI ruining the game? » Forum Post by EvilMario

Kantok

Join Date 10/2007

+67

What difficulty level are you playing on? At certain levels the AI monsters behave less aggressively towards everyone. That's by design.

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I can recommend playing on the lower difficulties until you get a hang of the game, they are there for the same reason I had to do that too you know

That said, the AI not being attacked by monsters have been reported a dusin times, please bring up screenshots next time

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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In truth the last time I seen the AI being attacked by a monster was back in beta 0.912. Never have I seen it happen since.

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The monsters WILL attack the AI, but how much is dependant on game settings (difficulty mainly).

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IMHO, yes.

1. Its supposedly based on difficulty. But i can tell you on normal if a monster has you or the AI to choose from it will always attack you.

2. the AI pretty much all coordinate to kill you even if they are at war with each other.

3. "Diplomacy" is based on power rating.. and the only way to build that is to spam pioneers at the start. So pretty much you either ICS for the first 30 turns or you lose. Low power rating means someone will declare on you, and somone declaring on you means the rest will. Pretty much everything is stacked for ICS and then war.

The potential in FE is great. But it really seems as if they designed everything around 1 specific playstyle and pure luck.

So if you find spamming pioneers for the first 30 turns. Relying on luck in not having any big baddies near you so you can expand with them and then going to war against all the AI after that fun then this is the game for you. If you expect any diplomacy or city building etc then you'll be sorely disappointed.

At least thats my experience.. some people tell me I'm wrong but the more I play the more this scenario seems to be the case.

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I agree with above. Been playing the game for the last few days and this is the general state of it. IMHO, it ruins the game by a lot. We have an awesome setting with lots of potential to RP/strategize our way in this game..... but its all ruined once the one AI decides to randomly declare war on me. I hope they bring out a hotfix soon to at least patch in this as it has ruined much of the game for me. I have little desire to try to play on at the moment as I was expecting Civ-style diplomacy as in they do not all agro me at once.

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Welcome to stardock, .

AI behavior is very typical of Frogboy style. it takes some getting use to and yes... all other AI standards are now renedered useless.

just wait to the first patch when you have to relearn how to play the game because Frogboy has taken all the savegames from the last couple months and taylored the AI to mimic all the expert player exploits and styles of play. basicly you have to relearn the game every time they patch the AI.

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Like sierra said "welcome to stardock"

just get over it and play.

You are smarter than a amd or intel powered unfair piece of A.I. ? Aren´t you ??

I think Brad is very dedicated with this one and you will have some surprises in later patches.

kesmai

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On easy difficulty, the AI gangbangs me about an hour into the game for 3 games in a row now. Same thing was happening on normal so I switched. It does not matter how much of a relationship you have or how many tributes you give, about an hour in they will gangbang you. Just to make things clear, nobody here likes getting gangbanged.

Also even on easy difficulty, the neutral mobs NEVER attack the AI.

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Quoting Fistalis,

reply 6

IMHO, yes.

1. Its supposedly based on difficulty. But i can tell you on normal if a monster has you or the AI to choose from it will always attack you.

2. the AI pretty much all coordinate to kill you even if they are at war with each other.

3. "Diplomacy" is based on power rating.. and the only way to build that is to spam pioneers at the start. So pretty much you either ICS for the first 30 turns or you lose. Low power rating means someone will declare on you, and somone declaring on you means the rest will. Pretty much everything is stacked for ICS and then war.

The potential in FE is great. But it really seems as if they designed everything around 1 specific playstyle and pure luck.

So if you find spamming pioneers for the first 30 turns. Relying on luck in not having any big baddies near you so you can expand with them and then going to war against all the AI after that fun then this is the game for you. If you expect any diplomacy or city building etc then you'll be sorely disappointed.

At least thats my experience.. some people tell me I'm wrong but the more I play the more this scenario seems to be the case.

To be fair all 4x tbs games start with a pioneer spam. That isn't something that is any different from any other game. You can also change the settings so that there are few to no monsters so that it is only you vs. the AI empire/kingdom.

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ManiiNames

Join Date 03/2006

+27

Quoting Kentuckyy,

reply 10

On easy difficulty, the AI gangbangs me about an hour into the game for 3 games in a row now. Same thing was happening on normal so I switched. It does not matter how much of a relationship you have or how many tributes you give, about an hour in they will gangbang you. Just to make things clear, nobody here likes getting gangbanged.

You can look at your relationship with each AI player, seeing what values are giving you +/-. Possibly you are not in as good a relationship as you think.

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Quoting Emperor_Nero,

reply 11

Quoting Fistalis, reply 6IMHO, yes.

1. Its supposedly based on difficulty. But i can tell you on normal if a monster has you or the AI to choose from it will always attack you.

2. the AI pretty much all coordinate to kill you even if they are at war with each other.

3. "Diplomacy" is based on power rating.. and the only way to build that is to spam pioneers at the start. So pretty much you either ICS for the first 30 turns or you lose. Low power rating means someone will declare on you, and somone declaring on you means the rest will. Pretty much everything is stacked for ICS and then war.

The potential in FE is great. But it really seems as if they designed everything around 1 specific playstyle and pure luck.

So if you find spamming pioneers for the first 30 turns. Relying on luck in not having any big baddies near you so you can expand with them and then going to war against all the AI after that fun then this is the game for you. If you expect any diplomacy or city building etc then you'll be sorely disappointed.

At least thats my experience.. some people tell me I'm wrong but the more I play the more this scenario seems to be the case.

To be fair all 4x tbs games start with a pioneer spam. That isn't something that is any different from any other game. You can also change the settings so that there are few to no monsters so that it is only you vs. the AI empire/kingdom.

Oh so due to broken mechanics I should play with only half the game.. I understand.

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Quoting Emperor_Nero,

reply 11

Quoting Fistalis, reply 6IMHO, yes.

1. Its supposedly based on difficulty. But i can tell you on normal if a monster has you or the AI to choose from it will always attack you.

2. the AI pretty much all coordinate to kill you even if they are at war with each other.

3. "Diplomacy" is based on power rating.. and the only way to build that is to spam pioneers at the start. So pretty much you either ICS for the first 30 turns or you lose. Low power rating means someone will declare on you, and somone declaring on you means the rest will. Pretty much everything is stacked for ICS and then war.

The potential in FE is great. But it really seems as if they designed everything around 1 specific playstyle and pure luck.

So if you find spamming pioneers for the first 30 turns. Relying on luck in not having any big baddies near you so you can expand with them and then going to war against all the AI after that fun then this is the game for you. If you expect any diplomacy or city building etc then you'll be sorely disappointed.

At least thats my experience.. some people tell me I'm wrong but the more I play the more this scenario seems to be the case.

To be fair all 4x tbs games start with a pioneer spam. That isn't something that is any different from any other game. You can also change the settings so that there are few to no monsters so that it is only you vs. the AI empire/kingdom.

There are simple ways to fix city spam.

I suggested tech limitations ala you can build 1 city at first and then through more research you can build more cities..

Someone else suggested cities like coloneis in SOTS where you must invest a lot of money in a new city (and time) before it becomes viable..

P.S I'll also edit my first post to show I was playing on Normal Normal..

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Quoting Manii Names,

reply 12

You can look at your relationship with each AI player, seeing what values are giving you +/-. Possibly you are not in as good a relationship as you think.

Yeah, and you can sign non-aggression pacts, and trade, and keep your borders from getting too near... and you can maintain "Close" relations. And it counts for exatly NOTHING.

Someone attacks you, and you look weaker, and everyone smells blood, and your closest trading partner attacks you, together with the guys who share your allegiance and live on the other side of the continent.

It does not bother me, because I play on ridiculous, but on challenging, Altar should NOT join on Yithril's side just because it looks that Verga has a chance of beating Procipinee.

+1

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Quoting Manii Names,

reply 12

Quoting Kentuckyy, reply 10On easy difficulty, the AI gangbangs me about an hour into the game for 3 games in a row now. Same thing was happening on normal so I switched. It does not matter how much of a relationship you have or how many tributes you give, about an hour in they will gangbang you. Just to make things clear, nobody here likes getting gangbanged.

You can look at your relationship with each AI player, seeing what values are giving you +/-. Possibly you are not in as good a relationship as you think.

It doesn't matter the AI will join a war against you no matter how good your relations are. Diplomacy is borked.

+1

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Quoting Fistalis,

reply 13

Quoting Emperor_Nero, reply 11
Quoting Fistalis, reply 6IMHO, yes.

1. Its supposedly based on difficulty. But i can tell you on normal if a monster has you or the AI to choose from it will always attack you.

2. the AI pretty much all coordinate to kill you even if they are at war with each other.

3. "Diplomacy" is based on power rating.. and the only way to build that is to spam pioneers at the start. So pretty much you either ICS for the first 30 turns or you lose. Low power rating means someone will declare on you, and somone declaring on you means the rest will. Pretty much everything is stacked for ICS and then war.

The potential in FE is great. But it really seems as if they designed everything around 1 specific playstyle and pure luck.

So if you find spamming pioneers for the first 30 turns. Relying on luck in not having any big baddies near you so you can expand with them and then going to war against all the AI after that fun then this is the game for you. If you expect any diplomacy or city building etc then you'll be sorely disappointed.

At least thats my experience.. some people tell me I'm wrong but the more I play the more this scenario seems to be the case.

To be fair all 4x tbs games start with a pioneer spam. That isn't something that is any different from any other game. You can also change the settings so that there are few to no monsters so that it is only you vs. the AI empire/kingdom.

Oh so due to broken mechanics I should play with only half the game.. I understand.

Guess I'll just turn everything off and play on the easiest setting.. I'm just a complete moron and the game is perfect.

I'll see you're a smartass so let me put it simply for you. I never said the game was perfect, I offered a solution to your problem. If you want to be a dickhead do it to someone else. I was polite and I deserve the same respect I gave you.

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I modded the AI diplomacy to only gank on the opposite side of the fence. So Altar for instance, would never attack Pariden for being weak. But Yithril will. Like to see that in the vanilla.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2394

Quoting Fistalis,

reply 16

atter the AI will join a war against you no matter how good your relations are. Diplomacy is borked.

That is not true. They won't go after you unless their relations with you are neutral or less.

Also, World Difficulty above challenging means the monsters will go after you more than the AI. World Difficulty less than challenging means the monsters will go after the AI more than you.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2394

Quoting seanw3,

reply 18

I modded the AI diplomacy to only gank on the opposite side of the fence. So Altar for instance, would never attack Pariden for being weak. But Yithril will. Like to see that in the vanilla.

What did you tweak to do that?

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The thing that annoys me about the AI is that it seems very limited in what it does.

First it tells you to watch out or it will clobber you.

Then it says give me your money.

Then it says I am going to war on you.

And apart from bragging about what it had for lunch, that's about it.

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 19

That is not true. They won't go after you unless their relations with you are neutral or less.

You sure the other Ai can't bribe them into war even if they are in good relations with me?

P.S. all my play experience has been on normal.

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Quoting Manii Names,

reply 12

You can look at your relationship with each AI player, seeing what values are giving you +/-. Possibly you are not in as good a relationship as you think.

I do check those... and it's fine. I have signed a non-agg treaty only to have it broken a season later. I appreciate the advice, but I like to play these games economically and diplomatically. It's not an option in this one.

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I haven't had time to play a lot of the released version, but the last beta, the AI was getting attacked, losing cities from monsters on Challenging. Watched it.

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Quoting Fistalis,

reply 22

Quoting Frogboy, reply 19That is not true. They won't go after you unless their relations with you are neutral or less.

You sure the other Ai can't bribe them into war even if they are in good relations with me?

P.S. all my play experience has been on normal.

Indeed I'm fairly sure I've seen AI's that I'm friendly with declare war on me with phrases such as "I don't have anything against me, but X told me to go to war with you"

There are a number of things that I think could be fixed with how the AI currently handles declaring war.

1) During a non-aggression pact the AI shouldn't be able to declare war, it just doesn't make sense.

2) There are few things as frustrating as bribing the AI with 2-300 gold to get Tech/Economy treaties only for him to declare war on you next turn, the AI should get a huge diplomacy bonus after getting bribed (Maybe proportional to the size of the bribe) that tapers off with time to the default +1 after 10-20 turns.

3) Just like in CivV it would make for a much more enjoyable game if the AI gangbanged the Strongest player rather then the weakest.

4) On the subject of stealing things from CivV diplomacy, it would also be nice with diplomacy bonuses for long term treaties, long term peace, common enemies etc. Should also be diplomacy penalties for attacking weaker players, attacking your own faction, building a wonder that player wanted etc.

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 19

Quoting Fistalis, reply 16atter the AI will join a war against you no matter how good your relations are. Diplomacy is borked.

That is not true. They won't go after you unless their relations with you are neutral or less.

Also, World Difficulty above challenging means the monsters will go after you more than the AI. World Difficulty less than challenging means the monsters will go after the AI more than you.

I found this very confusing. There's an AI difficulty both under World Settings and under Opponent Settings. You're saying that the World AI setting alters the Monster aggresiveness while the Opponent setting alters the actual AI? You should really fix that tool-tip in the world settings then.

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 19

Quoting Fistalis, reply 16atter the AI will join a war against you no matter how good your relations are. Diplomacy is borked.

That is not true. They won't go after you unless their relations with you are neutral or less.

Also, World Difficulty above challenging means the monsters will go after you more than the AI. World Difficulty less than challenging means the monsters will go after the AI more than you.

I'm sure you belive that (I'm not calling you a liar maybe it's a bug I don't know)

But that is not what happens in my games.. I've seen the AI attack a monster ONCE (and die ) But never the oppiset and I've played 2 games on challenging and like +/-12 on normal..

Same gos for the AI going for the gangbanging.. No matter how well you are getting along with someone once you start a war with one guy 20 turns later they are all after you. I get really pissed when I see the X's on the right hand side of the screen.. All X's..

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