Counterspell is a boring way to fix aoe spells

Brad has said that counterspells were inspired by MTG. I think it's worth looking at some characteristics of MTG counters.

(1) In MTG, you can see whether your opponent can counter your spell, and if they cast something big, they can't (because all their mana sources will be tapped out). This is actually somewhat present in FE: if your caster is working on something with a long casting time, they can't cast Counterspell. However, in that case you should probably counter them, and besides, they could have more than one caster.

(2) In MTG, you can't counterspell all the time, since you have to actually have a counterspell in your hand. You could increase your chances of being able to counter, but at the cost of decreasing your chances of doing anything else. I don't see how this could be implemented in FE without a major change to the game mechanics.

(3) As a corollary, in MTG you can run your opponent out of counterspells, or force them to guess which of your spells to counter.

So, I think making counterspells resistable probably makes some sense in FE, it's a game that relies more on randomness (although I know I'll be ticked off the first time someone resists my counter). But it'll still be obnoxious in tactical battles to go up against someone with high spellcraft (or whatever the youcan'tresistmyspells stat is).

Could counterspell be balanced out better by importing some characteristics from MTG?

For instance: what about putting a cooldown on counterspells? So I can counter your Fireball, but if I do, I can't counter whatever you do next. Ideally, make the cooldown visible to the opponent, so they know how long they have.

More drastically, what about putting an "inverse casting time" on counterspells? So instead of the mage waiting two turns, then casting them, they cast it, then have to wait for two turns before getting another action?

(I haven't looked into modding, but I believe that at least a cooldown is just an XML change)

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Quoting Aerion Istari,

reply 18

I had explored half of a Large map and fought countless battles. Do I have to wait until I capture the last enemy city on the map before Fireball is useful?

then you dont understand very well the game and you have no clue how to equip/skill champions to make them work best

firebal is not only useful its OP

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Quoting bpalczewski,

reply 25

And if u have problems with archers i dont think the best idea is to wait 3 turns for them to shoot at you; in this 3 turns my melee troops are on them and more than half of them are dead due to fire darts...

you are just playing another game

melees are wearing - initiative armors

there is no way melees can move b4 casters and like i repeated 20 times fireball with the RIGHT SETUP is INSTANT

you dont wait anything you just shoot b4 anything else can move

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Kantok

Join Date 10/2007

+67

Quoting Stupidity10,

reply 22

Spellshield exists, it's called blessing of nature or something.

I'd prefer it if counter spells were easily resistible spellmastery vs spellmastery so only mages of your own level or higher could use it. Lesser mages could use specific counters like the ones you suggest.

My UI always gets overcrowded late game anyway (only use 3 elements). We need the ability to customize the spell bar.

I like this. Make the battle of wills between mages something more flexible.

I also second the customizable (or just better organized) UI bar.

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Quoting Alstein,

reply 17

Good idea, but where do you place these spells?

I think the spells to counter one element should be level 1 spells.

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I have 2 suggestions:

1) Allow terrain bonuses to reduce AOE spell damage. So forests, hills, etc could help defend your units.

2) Copy D&D and allow any damage to interrupt spells. So archers could counter a fireball spell if they do enough damage. The calculation would be something like damage taken vs intellegence. Then you might have to cast some protection spells to ensure your fireball spell goes off, which creates a cool dynamic. However, if combat ends in 2-3 turns than whats the point, anyways?

As for being able to use fireball before enemies can move... that sounds like its a problem with overpowered perks for casters.

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Alternatively fireball could go back to 2 turns to cast and we could just

remove impulsive.

have all spells resistable and have resistance cause 50% of the effect. (ie 50% initiative hit of slow, or 50% of damage caused by fireball/blizzard)

have counterspell increase ALL allied spell resistance temporarily (by a significant, intelligence based, amount)

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Quoting ddd888,

reply 28

you are just playing another game

melees are wearing - initiative armors

there is no way melees can move b4 casters

DISAGREE. Melee can move before casters all the time. It depends on the set up for both caster and melee unit.

If you want fast moving Melee units ... equip them with Shortswords and Monk's Robes

I get 28 initiative melee units easy (in the mid-late game at least)

Even a basic melee unit with Charge and Fast generally move before a moderate or slowish caster (without impulsive) with the best available equipment. At least before Plate Mail. Haven't tried a charger wearing heavy armor.

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Totally agree with having a counterspell being an actual element spell of the OPPOSITE element. Casting a waterspell to counter a fireball; a life spell to counter death, etc., also helps create rivalries between the elements. Empire tends to be death, Kingdom life, and then factions within each favor different elements as well.

Otherwise, yes, the spell resits/spell power stats need to come into play for the current counter system.

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Quoting Tasunke,

reply 33

If you want fast moving Melee units ..

i dont want...

and no one wise would want

and also there is nothiing to disagree, the actual meta is like i pointed out, end

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Quoting UmbralAngel,

reply 31

Copy D&D and allow any damage to interrupt spells. So archers could counter a fireball spell if they do enough damage. The calculation would be something like damage taken vs intellegence. Then you might have to cast some protection spells to ensure your fireball spell goes off, which creates a cool dynamic. However, if combat ends in 2-3 turns than whats the point, anyways?

Quoting Tasunke,

reply 32

Alternatively fireball could go back to 2 turns to cast and we could just

have all spells resistable and have resistance cause 50% of the effect. (ie 50% initiative hit of slow, or 50% of damage caused by fireball/blizzard)

have counterspell increase ALL allied spell resistance temporarily (by a significant, intelligence based, amount)

Quoting CHiZZoPs,

reply 34

Totally agree with having a counterspell being an actual element spell of the OPPOSITE element. Casting a waterspell to counter a fireball; a life spell to counter death, etc., also helps create rivalries between the elements. Empire tends to be death, Kingdom life, and then factions within each favor different elements as well.

These suggestions could be combined to the following system:

Most spells have a casting time of 1 and area of effect spells like fireball, blizzard, pandaemonium (very powerful, because it affects all enemies and has no casting time), ... have a casting time of 2.

If the target looses at least 25 % of their total hp in one attack the casting time is increased by 1.

All spells are resistable and a successful resistance check reduces the effect by 50 %.

All elements have a level 1 counterspell to increase the spell resistance of all units against the opposite element by 10 for one battle.

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Quoting bpalczewski,

reply 24

I would like different solution:

it would be nice if I can decide how long any spell is being cast with bonus in power for each turn of casting

i would do it like that: if you click left button of mouse the spell will go with default (no delay) power, and if i click right i could postpone a spell - this would make a game really interesting: do i want to wait? how long? Of course, with each turn you risk being disrupted.

in order not to abuse it i would also increase a cost in mana of casting it depending on time you take to cast it

more anti-magic shields would be nice too

Gotta admit that I really like the idea of being able to "charge" certain spells. The only issue is whether the AI would be able to handle it well when its their turn to charge.

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Quoting BarxBaron,

reply 37

Gotta admit that I really like the idea of being able to "charge" certain spells. The only issue is whether the AI would be able to handle it well when its their turn to charge.

Yep, the charge system is great and it should be used for more spells.

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