Wizard1200

Join Date 02/2008

Less 1^n events

https://forums.elementalgame.com/417476

Fireball is a rank 3 spell, you have to be at least 5th level to know it. It costs 30 mana to cast and takes 4 actions to cast (3 in your build). It does 4 fire damage + 4 per fire shard (6 + 3 in your build) and has Overkill (damage is multiplied by the members of a group). It does damage to all units in 1 radius.

The additional action is a great change to fireball and hopefully to blizzard, too, but decreasing the base damage and increasing the shard based damage makes the spell less useful if the player has bad luck with the shards on the map and more powerful if the player is lucky with the shards on the map.

I think FE needs LESS 1^n events, but currently the luck is very important, because it gives the player shards of the required type, champions of the required type, monsters of the required level, powerful loot and powerful talents.

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I guess there could be a few "stock" maps that were hand made and balanced ... with pre-placed starting locations and pre-picked Sovs/nations.

Even so, less n^1 would certainly be nice. I see how they want people to fight over shards, as precious as oil or the like ... as long as spells such as fireball aren't an "I Win" button, yet still good enough to fight over, then at least the mechanics would be balanced (if not the luck).

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1^n = 1? I'm confused

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mqpiffle

Join Date 10/2010

+44

There need to be alternative methods of creating, manipulating, and amplifying mana-types.

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Hmm. horizontal vs vertical expansion of mana nodes anyone?

(ie, a line of techs that allows a single shard to be upgraded significantly)

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,,currently the luck is very important,"

I agree. It would be allright if the player has been given tools to handle bad luck more effectively. Check out my posts about my "summon hero" & "alter shard"-spell => https://forums.elementalgame.com/417771

Quoting Tasunke,

reply 4

Hmm. horizontal vs vertical expansion of mana nodes anyone?
(ie, a line of techs that allows a single shard to be upgraded significantly)

I'm definitely in favor of it. There aren't enough mana income sources anyway. Raising the mana output of shards would be a good thing. Also a dedicated line of buildings that produce mana without shards would be a welcome addition.

If upgraded shards count as several shards for damage scaling, then spell scaling as whole needs to be rebalanced, which is not a bad thing. Spells aren't very balanced at the moment.

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There is very little mana in the game. I am all for making it valuable, but it needs some more output. The citylevelup improvements also only give one point of mana. They should give at least 5.

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Quoting smakemupagus,

reply 2

1^n = 1? I'm confused

He means O^n.

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Or maybe 10^n (base 10) ?

Honestly though it seems like he means C + nX^(1+t)

where C is starting strength

n is number of new events

X is average strength of new events (new shards/ new champions)

and t is a time-coefficient for the snowball effect.

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Quoting Tasunke,

reply 8

Honestly though it seems like he means C + nX^(1+t)

where C is starting strength

n is number of new events

X is average strength of new events (new shards/ new champions)

and t is a time-coefficient for the snowball effect.

Yep

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I dislike how spells are tied to almost entirely to shards. Meaning the "free" amount you get is generally never very good, and you need many shards to make the spell potent.

It ties too close the size of your empire is the strength of your spellcasters. On top of that, there appear to be two game creation options which affect spells. One being the obvious, choice to affect how strong magic is, but then the "Resources" option, if it affects amount of shards on the map which only makes sense that it does, means it as well affects how strong magic is.

Also are there any cases where a physical based hero can actually be diminished in power outside of killing them? If you get attacked and start losing shards it actually starts reducing the power of your spellcasters, whereas physical heroes remain as strong as ever.

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I suggested in another thread to let spells scale with intelligence as well. Would lessen the dependance on shards for spell casters.

... Thinking about it, stepping away from sole shard scaling also lessens the snow ball effect that happens if your doing good in a game. As more cities leads to more shards which results in more damage in battles makes it easier to conquer another city and snow balling to victory.

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Doesn't intelligence already increase spell power?

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Quoting Tasunke,

reply 12

Doesn't intelligence already increase spell power?

Now, i found it really muddy to judge what Spell power vs. Spell resistance really does.

Ok, on some cases it's just resist or not resist - so entirely a binary effect, which by the way, I don't like at all (binary effects that is). But then how does Spell power effect spell damage? Does it effect at all? I have my doubts about that. What is with debuff spells that aren't resistible and don't dish out damage?

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Hmm. Upon playing the beta (some more), and reading in-game descriptions ... I'm thinking Spell Power only reduces the target's spell resistance

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Quoting nkraptor,

reply 10

I dislike how spells are tied to almost entirely to shards. Meaning the "free" amount you get is generally never very good, and you need many shards to make the spell potent.

It ties too close the size of your empire is the strength of your spellcasters. On top of that, there appear to be two game creation options which affect spells. One being the obvious, choice to affect how strong magic is, but then the "Resources" option, if it affects amount of shards on the map which only makes sense that it does, means it as well affects how strong magic is.

Yep, i think the shard damage should be only 25 % of the base damage. The magic option affects the amount of shards on the map and the resources option affects the amount of metal, ... on the map.

Quoting Tasunke,

reply 12

Doesn't intelligence already increase spell power?

Yep, but only spells like slow can be resisted and the spell resistance does not work against damage spells, but perhaps the spell resistance will reduce the damage by 50 % in the next update.

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Quoting Tasunke,

reply 14

Hmm. Upon playing the beta (some more), and reading in-game descriptions ... I'm thinking Spell Power only reduces the target's spell resistance

Quoting Wizard1200,

reply 15

Quoting Tasunke, reply 12Doesn't intelligence already increase spell power?

Yep, but only spells like slow can be resisted and the spell resistance does not work against damage spells

Which means both stats aren't utilized well.

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Quoting Xadie,

reply 16

Which means both stats aren't utilized well.

Yeah, i hope the next update improves the magic and the stats and hopefully FE does not get more randomness like destinys gift: https://forums.elementalgame.com/417697

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Well.

If spell resist increases both 'resist' and spell 'defense'

and if spell power increases both 'success chance' and spell 'damage' (for both stats to affect both types of spells)

then I'd be happy

Currently, I really like how a magic-specialized champion can get -50% mana cost for tactical spells.

I also like the 'meditation' spell which can increase mana production

Current game I selected 'dense' magical shards ... and its around year 200 or so and I'm getting 24 mana per season!

(just took over Kraxis, playing custom Sov + custom Faction)

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Quoting Tasunke,

reply 18

Currently, I really like how a magic-specialized champion can get -50% mana cost for tactical spells.

I also like the 'meditation' spell which can increase mana production

Mantel of oceans is great, but it should not reduce the mana cost for tactical spells to 0.

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Quoting Tasunke,

reply 18

Well.

If spell resist increases both 'resist' and spell 'defense'

and if spell power increases both 'success chance' and spell 'damage' (for both stats to affect both types of spells)

then I'd be happy

I'm not much into the hit or miss concept of resist able spells as they are now in game. I would prefer more along the lines of: if the spell is not resisted then it works on full effect (should damage apply then maybe still decreased by spell resist depending on spell), but if the spell is resisted then a minor version of the spell is still applied. Minor versions could have a effect duration of 1 turn or the effect is generally lower than the normal version. Of course the minor effect should not stack with normal version but is replaced by it.

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I think some spells already have minor version effects. It would just be a matter of adding minor versions to all resistables.

although I'm not sure that is the best approach.

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More scalable effects would be even better, but sometimes just not feasible. Especially when spells work with small numbers. (For example you can't downscale spell effect duration lower than 1 turn and such...)

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