MallyMcGinnis

Join Date 04/2011

+29

Ethics of Sourcing Graphical Imagery Inquery

Jafo, I'm told you're one of the designers to ask; are you out there?

Hi, all;

I don't ever want to look back at my work because someone has suggested I borrowed something from their work without permission. I know many of the rules when writing a paper about how to avoid plagiarism. Don't quote someone else's work as though it were your own. If quoting someone else's work, cite the reference in your annotated bibliography at the end of the paper, or at the lower portion of the pages. Scholarly works often tell you in the front how much you're allowed to copy without obtaining the publisher's permission.

I don't know, but I'd imagine the rules to be similar in creating graphical design works. Brushes, for example, don't always say anything about their use in commercial work, some are not to be used, others suggest to write and ask. Are our skins commercial in the first place? I mean, we don't sell them after all. To what degree must a photo or a texture, for example, be modified before it becomes our work? If I do a Google images search for something, and find an image that has no specified permissions, what thoughts do you all have about cutting little bits from it and using them in your work?

Ideas can also be plagiarized. Color combinations can be 'borrowed' from another design altogether. For example, many of my color picks in the skin I'm working on come almost directly (I don't use an eyedropper) from a classic Jaguar interior. My design also has a steampunk feel about it. How much of that idea can be new without borrowing from the ideas of others, and still be recognizably steampunk?

Would love to hear the thoughts of any and all who have them on this subject.

peace,

Mally

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DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002

+3724

I'm not Jafo who is FAR more expert in this stuff than I am. Also, I'm not a Gallery Moderator, so I guess you should regard my opinion and understanding of the rules as based on the stuff I've seen and read here on the site but not a "Pro" opinion.

Brushes, for example, don't always say anything about their use in commercial work, some are not to be used, others suggest to write and ask. Are our skins commercial in the first place? I mean, we don't sell them after all. To what degree must a photo or a texture, for example, be modified before it becomes our work? If I do a Google images search for something, and find an image that has no specified permissions, what thoughts do you all have about cutting little bits from it and using them in your work?

1. Brushes? Best policy is to cite them - which you used and by whom/url.

2. Are the skins commercial? Well, they're not for sale (unless they are Master Skins or Premium Skins), but they are available as an advantage and an example of what the software does if you get the software... and they can be displayed on the site so they are in a way commercial.

3. To what degree? The image must be 100% of your making. 0% someone else's. That includes textures, etc. As for googling? Just because you "think" an image is "free" doesn't mean it is. It could have been taken. You should assume that unless specifically stated by the artist that an image is free for taking, reproducing and distributing commercially, then it is not nor is any part of it. If you use someone else's graphics, you must provide permission from that person in the zip file you submitted, usually as a Permission.txt .

For example, many of my color picks in the skin I'm working on come almost directly (I don't use an eyedropper) from a classic Jaguar interior.

"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." What "inspires" you? Doesn't matter, and no one owns a color or geometric shape. However, if they are identical to something clipped from an ad or another place (not your own) and are not "fan art", then there's a problem.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1727

Quoting DrJBHL,

reply 1

and no one owns a color or geometric shape.

Not totally true....just try combining an 'm' with the colour 'yellow' and see how quickly MacDonalds will sit on you with extreme prejudice...

And an 'apple' is just a fruit....but try telling Jobs that.

Basically....if the original source of your image 'bits' is recognizable because the 'bit' is perhaps big enough and specifically 'unique' then you've 'borrowed' too much without first needing to obtain consent.

MOST issues with copyright revolve around 'distribution' not 'sale' as typically graphics downloadable from the net are for personal use...which PRECLUDES public redistribution to others by re-upload, etc.

Remember..."personal use" has nothing to do with commercialism or non-commercialism .... it's simply about keeping it on your own computer and no-one else's.

If you wish to distribute it...eg via upload here you need to be in possession of appropriate consents...either direct or pertinent TOU from the source.

Bottom line....if the origin of a work is not you....and it's not sufficiently redesigned/whatever to now be untraceable....then it will need verification of consent to use, and/or alter and then distribute....

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DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002

+3724

Quoting Jafo,

reply 2

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 1and no one owns a color or geometric shape.

Not totally true....just try combining an 'm' with the colour 'yellow' and see how quickly MacDonalds will sit on you with extreme prejudice...

And an 'apple' is just a fruit....but try telling Jobs that.

There is the matter of context... Jafo is right, but an apple (without a bite missing) in a bowl of fruit with no computer around is different from an apple with a bite missing as the center piece of a wallpaper on a skin looking like apple os.

A yellow arch might not look like a MacDonald's logo in one setting, but even if not particularly similar to the logo on a hamburger would be viwed in a different light.

Quoting Jafo,

reply 2

Remember..."personal use" has nothing to do with commercialism or non-commercialism .... it's simply about keeping it on your own computer and no-one else's.

If you wish to distribute it...eg via upload here you need to be in possession of appropriate consents...either direct or pertinent TOU from the source.

Bottom line....if the origin of a work is not you....and it's not sufficiently redesigned/whatever to now be untraceable....then it will need verification of consent to use, and/or alter and then distribute....

That's very important and worth keeping foremost in your thoughts when designing/skinning.

See? Told you He really knows this stuff.

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I knew you all would be able to make this stuff clearer to me. I didn't know about the permission.txt file, for example. I looked in several skins for the permissions.txt file, but am not finding one. I presume that this is something a skinner provides to the moderators, but is not made public? Is there a mock-up or template of one available so as to see a typical format? If so, please point me to it, or send it to mallymcginnis at gmail dot com.

Do brushes, etc, carry digital signatures that would allow me to find and cite the ones I want to use, or do I need to search for them on the web again?

In many cases, I could make my own brushes from shapes I drew and assembled in PS. But let's say I wanted an old electrical circuit breaker, valve, or switch; would I need to cite the photographer of the original one to make the brush, or is that abstracting the image sufficiently to make citations unnecessary?

Finally, for now at least, if the original source specifically states in it's TOU that the texture, brush or whatever is open for commercial use, does it, it's creator, and the website where it can be found still need to be included in the permissions.txt file? Thanks again for your having taken the time to write what you did.

peace,

Mally

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DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002

+3724

For permission.txt files, just download one of WebGizmos Object Dock skins or Winstep themes such as https://www.wincustomize.com/explore/objectdock_backgrounds/186/ or https://www.wincustomize.com/explore/winstep/584/ and rename it to .zip and open it up. You'll see the permission file there. There's no special formula. It can be from an instant messenger or an email or a pm. It can be specific or global. It only has to state you have permission to use the images from whatever skin or image is involved.

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I didn't find either a file with the name permission(s) or a .TXT file of any sort. I've started one of my own already which looks like this:

Start Menu

      Stretchable Layer Group

            Brush Name - Creator - URL

            Texture - Creator - URL

      Tileable Layer Group

Brush Name - Creator - URL

Texture - Creator - URL

Will that format sort of communicate what it needs to?

peace,

Mally

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DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002

+3724

1. OK.. this one does: WebGizmos - VXP Docks -

https://www.wincustomize.com/explore/objectdock_backgrounds/185/

Just unzip it.

2. Your format should make it easy for the Moderator - a Snipping utility view of the 'permission' might be easier after the url.

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Uvah

Join Date 05/2006

+874

Do this. My latest upload, Tewel Lagatter by Country Yokel. There are docks, tiles, a sysmetrix and a rainy. If you use either one of these programs find the folder, open it and inside you will see a PM from Country Yokel giving me permission to use his graphics. Permission being the operative word. The format isn't written in stone Mally. It can be a .txt file or a Pm, email etc. like DrJBHL and Jafo pointed out. As long as you have permission to use them you can upload to the site. As for brushes, same thing. Anything whether its a brush, an image or text from an article...if it is not yours by design i.e. 100% yours then you must have permission. Citing the url isn't compulsory unless the owner asks for it. Doing it anyway and providing the name of the author (necessary) gives credit/respect to that author and a way for others such as yourself to find his/her work.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1727

Copy of a permission.txt included within a 'readmefirst.txt' for a LiteSTEP theme...circa 2002.

Sort of thing that works [the email addy means the veracity of what's included can be verified]...

Christopher...
Thankyou for giving me permission...
I was just talking to treetog only 5 minutes ago, saying that I was hoping to
hear from you soon, as I was itching to start doing things....you must have
read our minds...
Needless to say, I will include your credit and any web address or whatever
that you wish, along with these communications as verification of consent as
usual.
It is an amazing wall.....I wish we had more like it at WinCustomize.
BTW....
Upload more of them to WinCustomize....

I shall keep in touch...
Cheers,
Paul.
JAFO [Admin, WinCustomize.com]

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher DeAngelus [mailto:#################]
Sent: Thursday, 6 September 2001 2:09 PM
To: 'Paul Martin [Jafo]'
Subject: RE: Five Eight Five

Hey. Sorry I haven't been in contact with you sooner, but I've been
moving, and haven't had a net connection.

I'd love for you to use my skin, provided I am credited. My main goal is
to get my stuff seen by as many people as possible, so this would only
add to the exposure. So yes, you have my permission to use the skin as a
basis, and just give me credit

I will be putting up my own homepage, so I'd like my web address added
to any files suitable for such when my site is ready, if this is okay.
Any other questions, just let me know.

I'm glad you like.

*END OF MESSAGE*

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Excellent. Thanks, DrJBHL!

I should have said earlier, but I still use XP Pro and it seems the snipping tool can be installed on the TabletPC version on XP, but not on the regular desktop version like I'm using. If you or anyone knows otherwise, please let me know. Looks like a neat tool, but I can get by just fine with the Print Screen key on my keyboard, and pasting the clipboard contents on a new PSD document.

peace,

Mally

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Quoting Uvah,

reply 8

Do this. My latest upload, Tewel Lagatter by Country Yokel. There are docks, tiles, a sysmetrix and a rainy.

Hi, Uvah! Nice to see you are so active on this forum. I have to admit, though, that the terms in that I don't understand in the context in which they're used here.

If you use either one of these programs find the folder, open it and inside you will see a PM from Country Yokel giving me permission to use his graphics. Permission being the operative word. The format isn't written in stone Mally. It can be a .txt file or a Pm, email etc. like DrJBHL and Jafo pointed out. As long as you have permission to use them you can upload to the site. As for brushes, same thing. Anything whether its a brush, an image or text from an article...if it is not yours by design i.e. 100% yours then you must have permission. Citing the url isn't compulsory unless the owner asks for it. Doing it anyway and providing the name of the author (necessary) gives credit/respect to that author and a way for others such as yourself to find his/her work.

All of this is very clear. I think I've got a plan for my permissions file. Building it as I proceed with my work will make it much easier than trying to build it at the end of the project. Do people very often say "no" when you ask for their permission to use something in your skin?

peace,

Mally

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Excellent, Jafo!

That's a lot for the help. It's exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.

peace,

Mally

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2of3

Join Date 10/2006

+816

When I give permission, I try to keep it informal:

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Ha; that is funny! I've read a lot of you all's posts, but I'm not on the inside yet. It wouldn't be cool if I were quite so informal yet. I mean, I'm just starting, none of y'all know me yet. I look forward to reaching that kind of friendship that develops over time. I like everyone I've met so far.

Norway, eh? I've heard nothing but good things about your peninsula. I should like to visit your part of Europe some day.

peace,

Mally

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Quoting DrJBHL,

reply 3

as would be a bitten apple with biblical undertones

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RedneckDude

Join Date 04/2009

+2197

Tim is truly a nut...lol.

But a real nice nut. I like him.

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Snowman

Join Date 03/2001

+343

Quoting Jafo,

reply 9

From: Christopher DeAngelus

Paul....
Why does that name ring a bell?
Can't seem to pin a nick to it though....

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DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002

+3724

Quoting Bichur,

reply 15

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 3There is the matter of context... Jafo is right, but an apple (without a bite missing) in a bowl of fruit with no computer around is different from an apple with a bite missing as the center piece of a wallpaper on a skin looking like apple os.

as would be a bitten apple with biblical undertones

An Eve-il remark.

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Quoting MallyMcGinnis,

reply 11

Do people very often say "no" when you ask for their permission to use something in your skin?

Sometimes they do. That's why it's best to ask first, before you put it in your project. I have an entire blind that I cannot upload, because Warner Brothers said 'no'. I knew that could happen and I made the blind anyway, just because I wanted it for myself even if I couldn't publish it.

The best thing is to make your own images, but if you want to use someone elses, try to avoid just using a Google image search (too many images that have been taken from someone else) . Looks around the web at different 'stock' websites for images that have clear rules of use. Some people will want credit in your description, some not. Some places do not require any credit or permission, the images are all free to use. Just be sure you are following the rules that the original author lays out, and you will be fine.

WinC mods will always want the appropriate permissions included in the file itself when you upload it, and credit and links to the originals in your description is preferred, and usually required.

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Uvah

Join Date 05/2006

+874

Quoting MallyMcGinnis,

reply 14

I should like to visit your part of Europe some day

Home of the Vikings also known as Skandinavia, The Norse Countries, Midgard as opposed to Aesgard or the Underworld. Quite a lot of history there. Case in point...A Viking by the name of Eric founded Greenland and called it that despite the fact that most of it was not green because he wanted settlers there. Iceland is exactly the opposite, more green than ice. Year 970 A.D. he founded the first colony in North America at Nove Scotia, Vikings got here long before Columbus did 522 years later.

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DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002

+3724

Quoting Xiandi,

reply 19

WinC mods will always want the appropriate permissions included in the file itself when you upload it, and credit and links to the originals in your description is preferred, and usually required.

Good words to remember - very true.

Quoting Xiandi,

reply 19

I have an entire blind that I cannot upload, because Warner Brothers said 'no'. I knew that could happen and I made the blind anyway, just because I wanted it for myself even if I couldn't publish it.

I've often seen that good people (like you, Lady X) get their just rewards - often in unexpected ways. Warner Bros. aren't all that smart, I guess.

Don't worry, though... You'll be rewarded. You deserve.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1727

Quoting Snowman,

reply 17

From: Christopher DeAngelus

Paul....

Why does that name ring a bell?

Can't seem to pin a nick to it though....

Kuro ....on Devart.... wall was called '585' / Five Eight Five ....

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1727

And here too [I should have mentioned]...

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Uvah

Join Date 05/2006

+874

That is some wall. Could not have easy to make this one I bet.

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Quoting Uvah,

reply 24

That is some wall. Could not have easy to make this one I bet.

Agreed! If those little capsule shaped buttons with the appearance of translucence are eye candy, then this is the most complex of Belgian chocolates or Trappist ales. It's really quite stunning, Jafo. Do you remember how many layers it took to make?

peace,

Mally

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