Come on, lets here some new Elemental News! WoM 1.2 and 1.3 info and/or Fallen Enchantress stuff.

Some cool artwork from the link BoogieBac gave!

This guy looks kind of funky.

http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2011/055/619010_20110225_640screen002.jpg

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yay for initiative system; that will really help with the pacing, and mechanics (or so i hope).

it was mentioned a while ago that this would be the replacement for combat speed, which i always thought was a horrible system.

i'm curious as to how it works though. is there a random element? (ie you roll a dice and add the result to your iniative stat), or does everyone move in the same order in each turn? to my mind the former makes more sense, because that way initative is a gift that keeps on giving, rather than an advantage that is lost if you can't do anything useful in the bonus turn you get at the beginning. a random element would help reduce the predictability of combat (where players always know "i'll move first so i'll arrive at the choke point first but he'll get the first attack"), and encourage people to use their judgement instead of square-counting.

i was also interested in the idea that a certain monster might be able to get in 2 attacks before a soldier can react. does that mean initiative doesn't just determine the order of attacks, but also how many actions you can perform in a given turn? do we still have action points at all (or combat speed, as we called it), and if we don't then does being mounted just improve your initiative? i still think there needs to be different advantages for being mounted as opposed to having a short sword. initiative would seem better linked to something more abstract (like intelligence) as far as i'm concerned, otherwise we will have swapped short sword super speed, for short swords allowing you to cast the first spell.

i would hope that the fire sword thing was quite subtle. ie, doing bonus fire damage that might be resisted, but still inflicting the basic sword damage. i wouldn't want to have to redesign my entire army just to take on one or two fire monsters who were immune to all the damage. i'm also praying you go with subtractive damage resistances (-4 points from each attack) rather than percentages (40% immunity). anyone who has played an elder scrolls game knows percentage resistances are an awful mechanic, because 5% resistance is useless against weak attacks in the early game, and 75% is overpowered by the time you get it in the late game.

many questions, but i'm very positive. that elemental lord (and the damage it inflicted) was insane.

EDIT: just noticed the guy with the magic staff as well. mega cool. i've been dying to get some equipment for my spellcasting focused heroes.

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Wow, thanks for the update BoogieBac, FE looks really cool, I can see you guys have been busy!

Quoting Sethai,

reply 77

yay for initiative system; that will really help with the pacing, and mechanics (or so i hope).

it was mentioned a while ago that this would be the replacement for combat speed, which i always thought was a horrible system.

i'm curious as to how it works though. is there a random element? (ie you roll a dice and add the result to your iniative stat), or does everyone move in the same order in each turn? to my mind the former makes more sense, because that way initative is a gift that keeps on giving, rather than an advantage that is lost if you can't do anything useful in the bonus turn you get at the beginning. a random element would help reduce the predictability of combat (where players always know "i'll move first so i'll arrive at the choke point first but he'll get the first attack"), and encourage people to use their judgement instead of square-counting.

I don't believe there are turns anymore, each unit just recieves an attack based on how fast they are able to make another one. Higher initiative means they can attack again sooner, you could get a mixed sequence of attacks where one of yours, then one of theirs, then three of yours, etc. If one unit's initiative is 20 and another's is 5, presumably the one with 20 will be able to attack 4 times for every attack by the unit with 5.

Quoting Sethai,

reply 77

i would hope that the fire sword thing was quite subtle. ie, doing bonus fire damage that might be resisted, but still inflicting the basic sword damage. i wouldn't want to have to redesign my entire army just to take on one or two fire monsters who were immune to all the damage.

I hope so too.

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hmm, yes that probably would explain how it works, and it sounds like a decent system. so you think it's only ever possible to perform one action in each turn? that could work, and keep thing moving quickly. or does each unit still have a pool of action points they can spend in various ways.

it makes sense in combat, but what about outside of it? if a unit with a short sword has higher initiative, and gets more moves to make, won't we still have a situation where men with swords run faster than men with spears, because they get more turns? and wizards get to cast more spells? i thought that was what we were trying to avoid? it could still work, so long as initiative isn't determined by equipment (in which case, what will be the point for most units?). it could be intelligence plus experience? or perhaps they are only using initiative to grant attacks, and movement opportunities are granted at a fixed rate (ie, you effectively have a second initiative stat (which is the same for everyone) to grant moves, and then you have the option of using that move for an extra attack, or cast a spell. that sound like the easiest fix to me.

or maybe you issue your attacks in a traditional 1 turn per unit per round style, and then initiative just determines when they are made and how many there are? that would work, but by that stage you might as well just grant a certain amount of attacks per turn.

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No idea what kind of actions you will be able to perform in a turn. And actually I might be wrong about how the initiative system works, I think it might still be turns, but the initiative just determines your place in line. Then it would be the same order each round. I'm confused when Toby said the cat thing could get several poisonous strikes before the foot soldier could respond, he might have meant several because there are several of them, or several because they they just happen to claw you twice when they attack. Or it could mean several because their initiative is so high they get two attack turns for every one of yours.

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I don't believe there are turns anymore, each unit just recieves an attack based on how fast they are able to make another one. Higher initiative means they can attack again sooner, you could get a mixed sequence of attacks where one of yours, then one of theirs, then three of yours, etc. If one unit's initiative is 20 and another's is 5, presumably the one with 20 will be able to attack 4 times for every attack by the unit with 5.

Replace attacks with actions.

I like this system. I hope this is what the video meant. Maybe some spells and abilities could take more then one turn to cast now.

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Excuse me but 'Entirely New Ways To Die' sounds cheap. I hope it's just the subtitle for that movie. Not for the whole game.

Will there be more sound FX in E:FE? Like not hearing spiders' agony scream sounding like dying boar again and again.

EDIT: What are the plans for beta testing? Will the beta be available just like the betas of E:WoM (hope).

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yes! Freaking sweet!

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ScottTykoski

Join Date 03/2001

+132

Excuse me but 'Entirely New Ways To Die' sounds cheap

Marketing is giving each push a subtitle. I don't know if the official one is decided but it's certainly not 'Entirely New Ways To Die'

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Scott, can you tell us anything more about what appears to be a serpentine/oriental dragon in both that Gamespot video and the 2010 Customer Report? I'm still hoping to see a Very Serious Dragon that can curl itself around a large city's walls and take a nap that makes ordinary sieges look like a playground fight.

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ScottTykoski

Join Date 03/2001

+132

GW: He's more of a mini-boss type character than a 'lord' level creature, so I doubt he'll be wrapping himself around any castle walls GOnna talk with Derek about writing a journal about the stuff we're working on (creatures, in particular)...lots of cool things coming out of the bullpen nowadays.

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Quoting BoogieBac,

reply 86

GW: He's more of a mini-boss type character than a 'lord' level creature, so I doubt he'll be wrapping himself around any castle walls GOnna talk with Derek about writing a journal about the stuff we're working on (creatures, in particular)...lots of cool things coming out of the bullpen nowadays.

The mystery is gonna kill Xia.

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Quoting troglyte,

reply 78

Wow, thanks for the update BoogieBac, FE looks really cool, I can see you guys have been busy!

Quoting Sethai, reply 77yay for initiative system; that will really help with the pacing, and mechanics (or so i hope).

it was mentioned a while ago that this would be the replacement for combat speed, which i always thought was a horrible system.

i'm curious as to how it works though. is there a random element? (ie you roll a dice and add the result to your iniative stat), or does everyone move in the same order in each turn? to my mind the former makes more sense, because that way initative is a gift that keeps on giving, rather than an advantage that is lost if you can't do anything useful in the bonus turn you get at the beginning. a random element would help reduce the predictability of combat (where players always know "i'll move first so i'll arrive at the choke point first but he'll get the first attack"), and encourage people to use their judgement instead of square-counting.
I don't believe there are turns anymore, each unit just recieves an attack based on how fast they are able to make another one. Higher initiative means they can attack again sooner, you could get a mixed sequence of attacks where one of yours, then one of theirs, then three of yours, etc. If one unit's initiative is 20 and another's is 5, presumably the one with 20 will be able to attack 4 times for every attack by the unit with 5.

Quoting Sethai, reply 77i would hope that the fire sword thing was quite subtle. ie, doing bonus fire damage that might be resisted, but still inflicting the basic sword damage. i wouldn't want to have to redesign my entire army just to take on one or two fire monsters who were immune to all the damage.
I hope so too.

How does walking speed get affected by initiative? If a unit has 2 moves and can move 4 times as fast as a unit with 3 move, does it mean it gets to move 8 times to the other units 3? That could be a potential problem.

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Well maybe you can do some 'Elemental Bestiary' with monster art, 3d model, descriptions of skills and habitat. Just like ol' good D&D monster book. I know it's time consuming for artists and 'lore-makers' but it gives quite a bit of immersion.

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I can't help wondering if all the "updates" to EWOM, you know 1.2, 1.3. 1.4, 1.5 might actually been finished as originally promised (ie end of last year, early this year) if they had worked on "finishing" this game before starting an entirely new game!?!?

Crazy thought, I know, strangely I'd like to actually play the game I pre-paid for as it was intended (and promised) to be before getting an entirely NEW game from the exact dudes that should be fixing the first game I bought. Am I crazy thinking I'm not crazy about this?

Gee what were the first promises of when 1.3, 1.4, etc were going to get done, not to mention 1.2?

Any update on actual content? Yes, love idea of random events and "map enhancements" but is any of that fun?

Any word if Dynasties will EVER get work done on them.. you know, the disappearing empires when the leader dies? You know, that thing that people have been bitching about since day 1?I don't recall a lot of "hey, create an entirely new game" threads.. instead I heard lots of threads about "content" and "fixing dynasties" and.. gee, MP which was ON the box?

Glad other, working games have kept me busy.. I keep coming back hoping to hear good news, and all I keep hearing are new promises just like the old promises ... "you're going to love this game".. uh huh.

As for art/screen shots.. you all remember that really cool art/screenshot ON THE BOX showing a big dragon surrounded by a laaarge army? Did that make it in the game? Pfft.

I really really want this to work, and DO appreciate the effort.. but I can't help but be pissed off every time I come here and hear all these promises when all I see is the empty shell of a game when I actually try to boot up EWOM.

+1

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Lord Xia +1 and alborelli +1 for being voices of different kinds of reasons and emotions. And what is karma, if not the sum of all actions, of all kinds?

I look at Fall from Heaven, and I think to myself: "This EWoM/FE thing could really be worth the wait." And then I do other stuff while waiting.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2394

Well in v1.3 the game takes a pretty different course as I'll be the one implementing features directly.

So in brief:

Tactical AI changes
Strategic AI changes
No more training of individual units (4 will be the new minimum)
No requirement for buildings to build a unit (buidings will enhance units but not be a requirement)
FOW will matter more (money generation)
Changes in the food/housing/prestige mechanic: Food/Housing = faster population growth rather than being a cap.
More cities = lower prestige.
Notable locations can be searched regardless of level.
Quests can be taken on regardless of level.
Random Events

So there's your preview of v1.3. I'm just waiting for v1.2 to be finished which has all the memory manager changes.

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 92

Well in v1.3 the game takes a pretty different course as I'll be the one implementing features directly.

So in brief:

Tactical AI changes
Strategic AI changes
No more training of individual units (4 will be the new minimum)
No requirement for buildings to build a unit (buidings will enhance units but not be a requirement)
FOW will matter more (money generation)
Changes in the food/housing/prestige mechanic: Food/Housing = faster population growth rather than being a cap.
More cities = lower prestige.
Notable locations can be searched regardless of level.
Quests can be taken on regardless of level.
Random Events
So there's your preview of v1.3. I'm just waiting for v1.2 to be finished which has all the memory manager changes.

Woohoo!

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2394

Also, here's an FAQ:

Q: Why are we enhancing WOM when FE is likely to be so much better received?

A: Because some day, WOM will be a $4.95 type game and we don't want people to not like what they get. One of the things I regret to this day (business wise) is that we didn't go back and make the oriignla GalCiv I and the original GalCiv II better.

We have sold hundreds of thousands of copies of those two games in jewel cases at places like Target and I cringe every time I see it on the shelf. Seriously. Go to Target or Walmart some time and see for yourself. It would be a huge missed opportunity not to spend more effort on WOM to make it a funner game so that it can eventually (think 2012) be a "bargain" game and lead people to Fallen Enchantress and subsequent editions of the Elemental universe.

+1

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Thanks Frog, sounds pretty good to me.

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 94

Also, here's an FAQ:

Q: Why are we enhancing WOM when FE is likely to be so much better received?

A: Because some day, WOM will be a $4.95 type game and we don't want people to not like what they get. One of the things I regret to this day (business wise) is that we didn't go back and make the oriignla GalCiv I and the original GalCiv II better.

We have sold hundreds of thousands of copies of those two games in jewel cases at places like Target and I cringe every time I see it on the shelf. Seriously. Go to Target or Walmart some time and see for yourself. It would be a huge missed opportunity not to spend more effort on WOM to make it a funner game so that it can eventually (think 2012) be a "bargain" game and lead people to Fallen Enchantress and subsequent editions of the Elemental universe.

Yep, I bought GalCivII at Target last year which was my first introduction to Stardock. I was a huge MOO2 fan (and MoM) back in the day so I said wth, I'll try GalCivII, it looks interesting. Your hardest level AI kicked my ass and humbled an old PC vet like myself. I loved MoM, loved GalCivII's AI, and thus brought me to Elemental. I also have a really bad case of OCD.

I did buy the complete GalCivII collection off Impulse a few months ago though.

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 92

Tactical AI changes

Good good.

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 92

Strategic AI changes

Very good.

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 92

No more training of individual units (4 will be the new minimum)

Hm... okie.

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 92

No requirement for buildings to build a unit (buidings will enhance units but not be a requirement)

So, a smithie adds +1 to attack and defense for example?

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 92

FOW will matter more (money generation)

Maybe also lowering the spread of the zone of influence a bit again. And maybe you could also change it from a square back to a semi circle? Imo that was not a good change, since it leads to very big influence areas very fast.

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 92

Changes in the food/housing/prestige mechanic: Food/Housing = faster population growth rather than being a cap.

Hm... will be interesting to see the balance there.

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 92

More cities = lower prestige.

Can we get an information in the city-founding pop-up, that shows us how another city will change that prestige? Also, don't forget heroe charisma prestige bonus, which can currently be used to easily game the system.

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 92

Notable locations can be searched regardless of level.

Quests can be taken on regardless of level.

Excellent.

Though, this will imo further diminish the value of the adventure part of the tech tree. Any plans to address the imbalances in the different branches of research?

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 92

Random Events

Elemental-shattering one are in, I hope?

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 92

So there's your preview of v1.3. I'm just waiting for v1.2 to be finished which has all the memory manager changes.

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I have to admit, I have not opened EWoM for several months. Waiting for 1.2 or even 1.3 before I delve back into it, so the news of what's coming is making me look forward to it even more.

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NaytchSG

Join Date 03/2006

+19

Hmmm.... E:WOM patch 1.3 = MOM patch 1.31 ?

The ones that made them awesome?!?!?

Can't wait!!

Those changes sound great, especially the 4 man squad minimum, makes heroes more epic if balanced right! I wonder what changes to the tech tree happen when adventures and notable locations are open from the start...

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 92

Well in v1.3 the game takes a pretty different course as I'll be the one implementing features directly.

Tactical AI changes
Strategic AI changes
No more training of individual units (4 will be the new minimum)
No requirement for buildings to build a unit (buidings will enhance units but not be a requirement)
FOW will matter more (money generation)
Changes in the food/housing/prestige mechanic: Food/Housing = faster population growth rather than being a cap.
More cities = lower prestige.
Notable locations can be searched regardless of level.
Quests can be taken on regardless of level.
Random Events

given that most of these things are stuff that i've been arguing for all i can say is wow, and feel slightly responsible if it ends up ruining the game. it is much more appropriate to use food to determine growth rate than caps. all i can say is bravo: this is why i keep buying your games.

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