Stardock hires Civ 5 lead designer Jon Shafer » Forum Post by HallowedBMyName

Quoting Mtn_Man,

reply 148

Edit: Ah, never mind... it'd probably just start a boring flame war anyway

Good call. Quite coherent.

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Start?

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Quoting tetleytea,

reply 138

I am right here, I can speak for myself. You've got a company that is hiring and firing, almost simultaneously. That is an interesting event. And try picturing yourself as one of those laid off people witnessing this sometime. Unless these laid off staff were serious underperformers, most people would say you're better off simply reassigning the people you already have. Not to mention the morale hit you just incurred.

Different people and skill sets fill different positions... plus you can look at me as an example of someone who was laid off but had a skill set that was needed when we hired back up and got a new position. Stardock (and Brad) take care of their employees as much as they can, I can attest to this. No one that was laid off could have been hired in to fill the positions Derek and Jon are filling.

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Quoting Kestral2040,

reply 153

Quoting tetleytea,
reply 138
I am right here, I can speak for myself. You've got a company that is hiring and firing, almost simultaneously. That is an interesting event. And try picturing yourself as one of those laid off people witnessing this sometime. Unless these laid off staff were serious underperformers, most people would say you're better off simply reassigning the people you already have. Not to mention the morale hit you just incurred.

Different people and skill sets fill different positions... plus you can look at me as an example of someone who was laid off but had a skill set that was needed when we hired back up and got a new position. Stardock (and Brad) take care of their employees as much as they can, I can attest to this. No one that was laid off could have been hired in to fill the positions Derek and Jon are filling.

Exactly, this sort of thing happens all the time. Even the largely publicized layoffs from big companies will be announced at the same time their HR has several positions they are actively recruiting from.

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I'm glad, Kestral, that you are being taken care of.

Large companies vary a lot, but they usually have formalized internal transfer systems. And they do have a tendency to be really dumb. Hiring and firing in large companies doesn't surprise me in the least. I could even see large companies hiring and firing for the same skill set, because the managers were delegated quotas to meet. You don't get credit towards your quota if you let the guy transfer. Idiotic, but not unusual.

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CivFanatics are sure having a hayday with this.

As for the atheism post, unless you're a agnostic you can't claim Mr. Spock status because any other conclusion is based 99% on faith until proven.

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ElanaAhova

Join Date 09/2008

+105

Ok, but WHY??? can't we have two buttons, instead of one?

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Quoting RogueCaptain,

reply 156

CivFanatics are sure having a hayday with this.

Feel free to link us to any specific heyday of note.

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Quoting ElanaAhova,

reply 157

Ok, but WHY??? can't we have two buttons, instead of one?

Hmm because than tehre could be a chance of error. Hmmm actually it should start automatical and win for me and while it is running do my housework too. Ah even better doing my work in general. That is a cocnept someone shpuld think about for a game.

On a more serious matter. It is nice to see you around and I am curious about furtehr Stardock project even as Frogboy still not answered my personal message.

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Blaze of Glory

Join Date 04/2006

+27

Quoting tetleytea,

reply 142

The answer to that is easy: Quantity < Quality... Less quality guys will make a better product in the same amount of time as a horde of code monkeys.

Which goes back to implying the people laid off were underperformers. Brad said before they were laid off through no fault of their own.

In my field at least, we just count on losing $100,000 per every headcount of turnover. That's recruiting costs, admin overhead, training, lost productivity time (because you're paying them salary & benefits over a period where they're too new to contribute much), etc.. And that's just for attrition. These are layoffs, where there's a serious hit to morale, severance, and lost productivity in addition to that, and all at the worst possible time.

That raises my eyebrow right there, why you couldn't just reassign and/or re-train the talented people you're proud of whom you already have. And then you hire big-name type people, which personally strikes me as buying the name. Similar to buying the really cool Abercrombie & Fitch and Calvin Kleins at the fashion store. That's something you do when you've got money to burn. When you're on a budget, you stick to your Old Navy and your Levi's jeans--or even better, the cheapest jeans out there are the pair you've already got.

I mean, Jon, Derek, Dave and all are here. It's done, you have to welcome them and work with them. They're certainly not complaining that it gave them a job. But--WTH???

Marketing Buzz is a factor. No one would talk about "Stardock doesn't let Joe Smith go! Finds some hole to put him in!" Would you celebrate your <insert sports team here> hiring a decent role player or a "big name"?

Rule number one of publicity, did you spell my name right?

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Marketing Buzz is a factor.

Yeah. It's actually a negative factor, as far as I'm concerned. Let me explain where I'm at:

I happen to be a die-hard Dallas Cowboys fan right now. Why? Because they fired the big-name coach in mid-season, who couldn't win anything. Their big-name quarterback who dated two big-name singers got knocked out, and then even their second-string quarterback got injured. Jason Garrett--the offensive coordinator--took that losing team in mid-season and led them to a decidedly winning record with their third-string quarterback. In the NFL. Now Jerry Jones named that no-name guy head coach. He ain't a no-name now. You go Jason.

There are lots of incredibly talented software people out there whom nobody knows, because--guess why--they spend all day typing in some closed room somewhere, ordering in for pizza every day. I want to buy that guy's game.

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What people say about Jon sounds bad but I'll give Brad the benefit of the doubt.

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I guess that's my attitude too. I have no idea what the environment was at Firaxis but I'm imagine it's much different from Stardock. People perform much differently in different environments. I've seen great people do badly in one role but fantastically in another with a change in manager, duties, freedom, whatever.

So I prefer to think I'm being cautiously optimistic rather than pollyanna-ish. But obviously time will tell.

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Thormodr

Join Date 09/2009

+11

Quoting tetleytea,

reply 161

Marketing Buzz is a factor.
Yeah. It's actually a negative factor, as far as I'm concerned. Let me explain where I'm at:

I happen to be a die-hard Dallas Cowboys fan right now. Why? Because they fired the big-name coach in mid-season, who couldn't win anything. Their big-name quarterback who dated two big-name singers got knocked out, and then even their second-string quarterback got injured. Jason Garrett--the offensive coordinator--took that losing team in mid-season and led them to a decidedly winning record with their third-string quarterback. In the NFL. Now Jerry Jones named that no-name guy head coach. He ain't a no-name now. You go Jason.

There are lots of incredibly talented software people out there whom nobody knows, because--guess why--they spend all day typing in some closed room somewhere, ordering in for pizza every day. I want to buy that guy's game.

Sometimes you can catch fire in a bottle. Let's see how the no-name coach does next season. He could totally bomb due to his inexperience.

There is always a honeymoon period with new head coaches.

Personally, I like the Seattle Seahawks. Nice to see them sneak into the playoffs with the worst record in league history for a division winner.

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Quoting Jon Shafer,

reply 16

Greetings all! Proud to be joining the Stardock team, and expect to work on a lot of great projects here in the future.

There's been some assumptions here about what my joining Stardock will mean for the games the studio will be putting out from now on. Fear not all - they'll be clearly recognizable as Stardock games. One thing that I will say though, is that Stardock's games are awfully complex, and probably need to be streamlined some so as to not confuse new players. I can't talk about too many details on what our detailed plans are yet, but a little tease can’t hurt.

Right now I'm thinking we'll trim the interface down to one big button in the middle of the screen, 1024 pixels wide by 768 pixels tall (approximately - will vary based on the resolution of the user’s monitor). The text on this button will say "Win the Game." I've had some discussions with Brad and the marketing team about this, and everyone is really excited by the possibilities. We've seen it work well in products from other publishers, and I really feel that this new direction will result in Stardock's games appealing to a much larger audience. We'll do some focus testing and see how things go. If people are still having some trouble grasping the gameplay concepts we may have to simplify things a bit more. I'll keep you guys posted!

Jon

Just change "Win the game" to "Next turn" and you`ve remade Civ5

Anyways......where is the Sins 2 board?

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Quoting ,

quoting post

Stardock hires Civ5 lead designer Jon Shafer

Um, wow. This can only lead to good things.

I think Jon coming to Stardock may bode well for Elemental, a future Stardock title, and the TBS genre in general.... just so long as he embraces an earnest humility... and hasn't gotten stuck being caught up in some premature ideal such that his appointment to lead a Civ game somehow means that he has been elevated to a status which is premature to his experience and actual~current ability. So, at such time as he leads another project... if he is willing and able to enlist his peers to check, inspire, and supplement his thinking... and if he balances his direction to that of the community he is attempting to serve... then yeah I think he may have already accrued enough talent to see a mutually_profitable job well done. But if... his appointment of fortune (being in the right place at the right time) to lead a great franchise in it's latest title has gotten to his head... well then I think it will all be for shit! He ain't no guru. There would have been signs and indications lol. He is just a dude with a noteworthy skill set and talent. Talents which haven't even had ONE single decade of refinement btw. There is no mastery. There may be fresh thinking and innovation... but a balance of experience and exposure must be always be balanced against. With that reality understood and more... and with an openness which comes with humility... there is oppurtunity to progressively elevate towards an ever approaching incremental greatness. But... when a person thinks they are already "all that and more", well then they don't know shit, and indeed they produce nothing better than shit. I don't think the version of industry matters to this question. I think it is a universal question/answer. With humility, greatness may eventually come... but your humility may have you not see that you have fiiiiiinaly arrived lol. Whereas a lack of humility always spews shit.... even if it turns out to be a semi-profitable load.

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Personally, I like the Seattle Seahawks. Nice to see them sneak into the playoffs with the worst record in league history for a division winner.

The Seattle Seahawks, ladies and gentlemen!! For the record, Thormodr said it first. Before their big win. Go Seattle!

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Thormodr

Join Date 09/2009

+11

Quoting tetleytea,

reply 167

Personally, I like the Seattle Seahawks. Nice to see them sneak into the playoffs with the worst record in league history for a division winner.
The Seattle Seahawks, ladies and gentlemen!! For the record, Thormodr said it first. Before their big win. Go Seattle!

Indeed. One of the biggest upsets in NFL playoff history and I believe the only time a team with a losing record has won a playoff game.

They did it with a name brand coach. Pete Carroll is well respected and talented. I'm glad they got him.

Perhaps Jon Shafer can help do the same thing with Elemental along with Kael, David Stern and others.

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Poor Toby is always "others".

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Thormodr

Join Date 09/2009

+11

Quoting Lord Xia,

reply 169

Poor Toby is always "others".

Well to be honest, I don't know who he is really. My first Stardock game was GalCiv II Ultimate Edition. I really haven't been around that long.

However, judging by the positive reaction by people around here, he's another positive hire (or re-hire) by Stardock.

Congrats Toby and I look forward to you and "others" contributing to making Elemental great as well.

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Quoting Lord Xia,

reply 169

Poor Toby is always "others".

I KNOW RIGHT?!?!

Quoting Thormodr,

reply 170

Quoting Lord Xia, reply 169Poor Toby is always "others".

Well to be honest, I don't know who he is really. My first Stardock game was GalCiv II Ultimate Edition. I really haven't been around that long.

However, judging by the positive reaction by people around here, he's another positive hire (or re-hire) by Stardock.

Congrats Toby and I look forward to you and "others" contributing to making Elemental great as well.

If you want to get to know me better there's an older dev journal that I introduced myself in (https://forums.elementalgame.com/399192). You don't know me because I'm new and no one to have known nothing to do with you

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Thormodr

Join Date 09/2009

+11

Quoting Kestral2040,

reply 171

Quoting Lord Xia, reply 169Poor Toby is always "others".
I KNOW RIGHT?!?!

Quoting Thormodr, reply 170
Quoting Lord Xia, reply 169Poor Toby is always "others".

Well to be honest, I don't know who he is really. My first Stardock game was GalCiv II Ultimate Edition. I really haven't been around that long.

However, judging by the positive reaction by people around here, he's another positive hire (or re-hire) by Stardock.

Congrats Toby and I look forward to you and "others" contributing to making Elemental great as well.

If you want to get to know me better there's an older dev journal that I introduced myself in (https://forums.elementalgame.com/399192). You don't know me because I'm new and no one to have known nothing to do with you

Glad to make your acquaintance.

I'll give your introduction a read.

EDIT: Good stuff. Glad you are back and look forward to hearing great things from you and about Elemental. ^^

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I'd like to hear Jon Shafers Mea culpa before I trust any product that he is going to be involved with. He's done nothing but hide behind his business and legal obligations thus far. Which I'm sure is in his best interest for his career and whatnot. But how is that in any way good for the consumer ? Those of us who can get over the vitriol will admit Civ 5 had some definite bright spots and the guy has talent. But you hired a guy who's recent behavior doesnt walk "consumer first" talk that stardock stands for. Its like hiring Michael Vick for your football team. Sure he'll get you a few touchdowns but when you sit down with your team for the locker room prayer can you really take yourself seriously?

My parents taught me that you clean up any mess you made first before moving on to the next thing. That lesson stands here -lets see some transparency and accountability from Mr. Shafer before giving him any sort of public pass.

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You are not entilled to anything, enoeraw37. If Jon can and wants to talk about that old stuff, that's his prerogative, but is not obligated to do so for your sense of well being. I think this hatred for him and CiV5 has really gone beyond what a truly open dialogue could accomplish, I don't think you or others like you would be satisfied until he gave you a pound of flesh. I think the best move for everyone is to look toward the future, see what Stardock is going to offer it's customers, and if you like it, welcome and if not, you can take your business elsewhere.

+1

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Well said Lord Xia. This subject is getting very tired indeed. I'll judge based on what he contributes to Elemental and I expect to see some great improvements.

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