Stardock hires Civ 5 lead designer Jon Shafer » Forum Post by HallowedBMyName

guys, you realize that's not really Jon Shafer, right?

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kyogre12

Join Date 07/2008

+100

Perhaps a better first post would have been a heartfelt apology for ruining the greatest, most successful franchise in the history of computer gaming this side of WoW[/quote]

There's quite a few franchises that say you're wrong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PC_video_games

EDIT:

[quote who="charon2112" reply="26" id="2860295"]guys, you realize that's not really Jon Shafer, right?

I can't tell if you're being serious or not

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Sorry guys but i agree with Fistalis views.

This guy maybe not totally responsible, but he has partially a big part in ruining the best TBS game series that was around for the last decade.

I am sorry but I also see it as a bad omen, someone ruining a game like Civ would probably have a bad effect in a promising game like Elemental.

He just goes against the basic rules that make elemental successful. Well just look what i mean, players respect Stardock because he cares about its player basis, interact with them and hear their suggestions and adjuct to them.

This guy is the totally opposite, doing whatever he cares about, not caring about player comments if they are hard to achieve, even if they are logical and right and additionally it doesnt get down to talk to them.

I am with you Fistalis, I would have taken up with Frogboy a thousand times rather than this game destroyer.

Please Elemental dont let him ruin this game too.

Yours sincerely,

Shinon

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WELL at least he ISN'T a lead designer on elemental eh? eh? eh?

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Quoting kyogre12,

reply 27

Perhaps a better first post would have been a heartfelt apology for ruining the greatest, most successful franchise in the history of computer gaming this side of WoW

There's quite a few franchises that say you're wrong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PC_video_games

EDIT:

Quoting charon2112,

reply 26

guys, you realize that's not really Jon Shafer, right?

I can't tell if you're being serious or not

I hope you realize that some of us have been playing Civ longer than you have been alive! Success is not only measured by $$$. Harry Potter makes more money than Hamlet, but that doesn't make it better literature. I started playing Civ 1 on the Amiga. Then there was 2,3,4, and the misguided 5. Colonization 1 and 2. SMAC. (Not to mention, Call to Power 1 and 2) That's 10 iterations off the top of my head. And that doesn't count Pirates, MOM, MOO, and XCOM. Sid Meier and Microprose on the label used to mean something great. Sid Meier and Firaxis were not able to come close to that level of success. Sid, Firaxis, 2K, Steam, Jon Shafer, and Civ 5 have managed to destroy whatever remaining credibility there was in Sid's brand.

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Quoting Hanokh1967,

reply 25

I have never once complained about Elemental despite its many problems, but this announcement has to be an April Fools joke.

Civ 5 is an unplayable mess. Jon Shafer is primarily responsible for its failure.

He and all those involved with Civ 5 have not even had the balls to admit that there might be problems with the game.

Then he comes here and his first post is definitely asinine and borderline insulting to everyone who has wasted at least $100 on Elemental and Civ 5.

I don't find it funny in the least.

Perhaps a better first post would have been a heartfelt apology for ruining the greatest, most successful franchise in the history of computer gaming this side of WoW, along with an assurance from everyone here at Stardock that he will definitely not be allowed to make any decisions about the future of Elemental.

All I have seen from him is some moderately successful features in an add-on to an add-on to a rock solid game.

Perhaps it is hard for a 25 year old to appreciate just how lucky he is to even have a job in the current economy.

There are plenty of out of work people in America that have lost their jobs even though performing that job well.

Jon failed miserably at his last job. Most people that fail that badly don't get a second chance so soon, if at all.

You are being pointlessly melodramatic. You won't achieve anything that way. Civ V, despite its flaws, was a game that existed and could be played. It wasn't perfect, but I wouldn't say it's more heavily flawed than Civ 1 or Civ III. I look forward to the ideas being put together into something worth playing more heavily in Civ VI. Jon Schafer contributed to it in ways that are probably not related to its flaws, though of course we as consumers don't have much by way of details. Regardless, his job on Elemental is not in one of the areas in which Civ V was flawed.

And asking for a guy who just got a new job to apologize that you didn't like the last thing he worked on is both unreasonable and rude.

tl;dr: Lighten up.

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kyogre12

Join Date 07/2008

+100

Quoting Hanokh1967,

reply 30

Quoting kyogre12,
reply 27

Perhaps a better first post would have been a heartfelt apology for ruining the greatest, most successful franchise in the history of computer gaming this side of WoW

There's quite a few franchises that say you're wrong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PC_video_games

EDIT:

Quoting charon2112,
reply 26
guys, you realize that's not really Jon Shafer, right?

I can't tell if you're being serious or not

I hope you realize that some of us have been playing Civ longer than you have been alive! Success is not only measured by $$$. Harry Potter makes more money than Hamlet, but that doesn't make it better literature. I started playing Civ 1 on the Amiga. Then there was 2,3,4, and the misguided 5. Colonization 1 and 2. SMAC. (Not to mention, Call to Power 1 and 2) That's 10 iterations off the top of my head. And that doesn't count Pirates, MOM, MOO, and XCOM. Sid Meier and Microprose on the label used to mean something great. Sid Meier and Firaxis were not able to come close to that level of success. Sid, Firaxis, 2K, Steam, Jon Shafer, and Civ 5 have managed to destroy whatever remaining credibility there was in Sid's brand.

I hope you realise that doesn't mean anything . And strictly speaking, that list was games that sold the most copies, not made the most money (although I expect the two would be similar). Claiming that a franchise is the most successful "in the history of computer gaming this side of WoW" is, I'm sorry, a bit arrogant (especially when there are things like Half-Life and Starcraft). And the fact that you compare it to WoW implies, to me anyway, that you are speaking in terms of money/copies sold.

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Personally, I was extremely disappointed with Civiilization 5 but that's no reason to be rude to Jon Shafer.

The lion's share of the blame with Civilization 5 has to go to 2K Games and Firaxis in my opinion for

trying to appeal to the mass market and dumbing down the game. I'd wager that that certainly wasn't

Jon Shafer's vision.

I for one, am happy Jon Shafer is joining Stardock. I am positive he will make Elemental very mod friendly and will

also be able to work well in a non poisonous environment where suits aren't breathing down your neck worrying

about year end financial reports.

So, welcome Jon Shafer. I'm sure you'll do an excellent job.

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Who the heck signed in as John Shafer?

Priceless.

If it is the real Shafer, get an avatar dude

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Quoting MichaelCook,

reply 34

Who the heck signed in as John Shafer?

Priceless.

If it is the real Shafer, get an avatar dude

If it was the real Shafer, it would say "Stardock" under his name.

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I love it all the same.

But seriously, can't wait to hear from the real JS ("Would the real John Shafer please stand up?")

However I honestly think he will be inundated by posts asking "What happened with Civ V and between you and Firaxis?". That will be dull.

Like this post said, forget 2010, bring in 2011!

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I'd just like to share my 2 cents. One thing we know Shafer is personally responsible for is one of the best (IMO) changes to the Civ franchise since it began: Hex map with one unit per tile and real ranged units. I remember when they first announced it that they were saying the hex format and 1 unit per tile thing were the things he specifically wanted to bring to the table.

To say that one guy is responsible for all of the bad things in a game is simply simple minded and wrong. He didn't make Civ steam only, that was 2K. He probably had nothing to do with the streamlining of the game either. That was probably pressured by 2K, stock holders, and execs, to try and "reach a broader audience". We don't know what was really going on behind the scenes with Civ 5. However, I do know John brought one of the biggest changes Civ needed.

You guys need to understand how developers who have to deal with big publishers like 2K have their hands tied and are told what to do by execs who aren't game developers. You don't have this problem with Stardock and Valve. Maybe John left Firaxis for Stardock because they offered him more freedom in his field of expertise, and the fact he'll be working with game developers from the top down.

Being the lead game designer doesn't mean everything in the game is your idea, often you have to juggle a bunch of stuff and decide how to best please your big wigs as well as your customers. Let's give the guy a chance, and judge him based on what we can define with evidence and fact, rather than speculation and outrage.

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Quoting Jon Shafer,

reply 16

Greetings all! Proud to be joining the Stardock team, and expect to work on a lot of great projects here in the future.

There's been some assumptions here about what my joining Stardock will mean for the games the studio will be putting out from now on. Fear not all - they'll be clearly recognizable as Stardock games. One thing that I will say though, is that Stardock's games are awfully complex, and probably need to be streamlined some so as to not confuse new players. I can't talk about too many details on what our detailed plans are yet, but a little tease can’t hurt.

Right now I'm thinking we'll trim the interface down to one big button in the middle of the screen, 1024 pixels wide by 768 pixels tall (approximately - will vary based on the resolution of the user’s monitor). The text on this button will say "Win the Game." I've had some discussions with Brad and the marketing team about this, and everyone is really excited by the possibilities. We've seen it work well in products from other publishers, and I really feel that this new direction will result in Stardock's games appealing to a much larger audience. We'll do some focus testing and see how things go. If people are still having some trouble grasping the gameplay concepts we may have to simplify things a bit more. I'll keep you guys posted!

Jon

Jon, if it really is you, then I honestly don't think mocking Civilization 5 is appropriate.

EDIT: Ahhh..... looking in the user profile you find posts such as this: https://forums.elementalgame.com/376237/get;2545536 It appears to be the REAL Jon Shafer. Which just disappoints me that you would mock Civ 5 like that.

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wow, it seems he is really Jon.

Well, please do not mind some people who are rather emotional, and I hope good luck with you and Stardock (because Elemental really needs luck now.)

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Guys, stop being a dick to Jon. Vent your frustration about Civ 5 stuff at a Civ 5 forum. Or at least not in his welcome thread. Manners people! Yes, I understand the irony of me talking about etiquette and manners, but that doesn't mean it's not true.

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Werewindlefr

Join Date 03/2007

+28

the BIG DESIGN DECISIONS HE MADE RUINED THE GAME FOR ME HOW IS THAT MOOT? Are you claiming that 1UPT wasn't his idea.. seriously??.

That's nnot a very widespread opinion. Most people I know, hardocre Civ IV lovers and usually Civ V haters, do at least recognize this was a *good* decision. There are many other things that can be criticized about Civ V, 1UPT is generally celebrated as a *good* change.

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Quoting Jon Shafer,

reply 16

There's been some assumptions here about what my joining Stardock will mean for the games the studio will be putting out from now on. Fear not all - they'll be clearly recognizable as Stardock games. One thing that I will say though, is that Stardock's games are awfully complex, and probably need to be streamlined some so as to not confuse new players. I can't talk about too many details on what our detailed plans are yet, but a little tease can’t hurt....

Ok, I was going to keep an open mind until I read that sentence. If this is a joke, he has a very disturbing sense of humor. If he is serious, Stardock made a huge mistake in hiring him.

I just love the term 'streamlined' . Streamlined is what Gas Powered Games did to the Supreme Commander series. It was also the term used repeatedly to justify the removal of content from the Civilization games. "No, we didn't take stuff out, we just streamlined it."

Keep his streamlining away from "Sins of the Solar Empire" or "Galactic Civilization" series

We do not need any more dumbed down or simplified strategy games.

After reading his post, I am beginning to fear that the only thing that will remain recognizable as a Stardock game will be the logo.

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Get a sense of humor, what the fuck, people, really? Joke! And a damn good one. Seriously. Everyone put on your big girl panties and stop your crazy hyperbole bitching.

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mriguy, the whole post was a joke.

Jon will work on expanding the modability of the game. He's the "mod-czar" Brad was talking about. Derek Paxton (Kael) is the project manager.

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To clarify for those that are confused, I think the button comment was a joke...

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Every joke has an element of truth. Why mention 'streamlining' unless he knew that is what has disappointed so many with the Civilization series. I am sorry, I do not find anything amusing about the statement.

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Wintersong

Join Date 07/2006

+235

Quoting Hanokh1967,

reply 25

I have never once complained about Elemental despite its many problems, but this announcement has to be an April Fools joke.

Civ 5 is an unplayable mess. Jon Shafer is primarily responsible for its failure.

He and all those involved with Civ 5 have not even had the balls to admit that there might be problems with the game.

Then he comes here and his first post is definitely asinine and borderline insulting to everyone who has wasted at least $100 on Elemental and Civ 5.

I don't find it funny in the least.

Perhaps a better first post would have been a heartfelt apology for ruining the greatest, most successful franchise in the history of computer gaming this side of WoW, along with an assurance from everyone here at Stardock that he will definitely not be allowed to make any decisions about the future of Elemental.

All I have seen from him is some moderately successful features in an add-on to an add-on to a rock solid game.

Perhaps it is hard for a 25 year old to appreciate just how lucky he is to even have a job in the current economy.

There are plenty of out of work people in America that have lost their jobs even though performing that job well.

Jon failed miserably at his last job. Most people that fail that badly don't get a second chance so soon, if at all.

You could start by apoligizing yourself for stating your opinion as facts that we all must submit to. I feel deeply offended and insulted.

Second, you live in a country where the most poor man can become multimillionarie (ñamd of opportunities plus frontier spirit) so stop complaining about its quirks. It's the perfect country! ("America", right? Like Canada? Brazil? Mexico? Chile? Cuba?)

Third, he has the right to post what he wants as answers to insults. You should thank ihm for doing it in an humorous way that people with a brain not in rage-mode can appreciate. Maybe you would have prefered he to insult you all (very deserved, paying customers or not). Surely, apoligizing to people who insults is something I would only do under death menace.

Now, where do I have those pacifiers for ye? They will help ye to deal with real life's "I don't like this" moments.

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Quoting mriguy,

reply 46

Every joke has an element of truth. Why mention 'streamlining' unless he knew that is what has disappointed so many with the Civilization series. I am sorry, I do not find anything amusing about the statement.

The guy who wrote the post about the button...is not Jon Shafer, repeat not Jon Shafer.

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Quoting charon2112,

reply 48

Quoting mriguy,
reply 46
Every joke has an element of truth. Why mention 'streamlining' unless he knew that is what has disappointed so many with the Civilization series. I am sorry, I do not find anything amusing about the statement.

The guy who wrote the post about the button...is not Jon Shafer, repeat not Jon Shafer.

Yes he is, repeat, yes he is, Island Dog said so.

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Werewindlefr

Join Date 03/2007

+28

Quoting charon2112,

reply 48

Quoting mriguy, reply 46Every joke has an element of truth. Why mention 'streamlining' unless he knew that is what has disappointed so many with the Civilization series. I am sorry, I do not find anything amusing about the statement.

The guy who wrote the post about the button...is not Jon Shafer, repeat not Jon Shafer.

https://forums.elementalgame.com/403448/page/5/#2860404

The guy who wrote this post is not Island Dog, I repeat, not Island Dog.

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