Someone said we are just sitting around trying to suck up to Jon? No way in hell. If I ever met him perosnally, and the situation warrented it, i would ask him what the hell happened with Civ V. The first thing I would ask is, "How the hell did those rivers ever get in the game."

But this is not Civ V. No matter how much I think he butchered up the game, I am willing him to give him another chance. Everybody deserves a second chance.  MY GOD it is only a game. (I still am on the 2K forums bellyaching about the game, but I do it there) Jon is not there anymore, and he even asked for him to prove himself.

For someone to ask to let himself prove himself is alot for anyone to ask. For anyone not to give it to him, speaks Volumes of that persons character. For not to give Jon a second chance when he asked to prove himself, is well.... just low of you.

You are no better than Jon then and actually a worse of person then. Get of your high horse. Nobody is sucking up to Jon.

I just don't understand your level of "give-a-shit" on this topic.  Or your point of view...

I've already explained my motivation and I dont need your permission to have an opinion about the hiring of Jon Shafer. If you want to discuss the points I brought up about this hiring damaging the GBoR thats fine but stop trying to distract from the topic.

I think I am in love with you. 

You're playing with words.  He's not "choosing not to tell you".  He's legally obligated not to tell you.  You want him to risk his career and livelihood just to satisfy you?  A tad bit egotistical if you ask me.  

And as for Stardock's "PR spin", all I know is that I bought a game I was very excited about eight months early just so I could beta test it.  The game came out and was highly disappointing.  One of the most disappointing games I've ever purchased in fact.  The owner of the company apologized and publicly explained at length why the game was a disappointment.  And then offered me not one, but two, free expansion packs to make up for my disappointment.  

Brad's, and Stardock's, reputation will survive the faux rage.  In fact, I have more respect for the company now than I did when I ordered the game in order to beta-test nothing but a figurine moving around on a cloth map.  

But you're right, their values certainly fly out the window at the first big opportunity.  I mean, it's not like they gave away $50 or $60 worth of expansion packs to thousands of customers or anything as a means of apologizing for the terrible launch.  They obviously shredded their values in pursuit of a quick buck.  

You are a troll. You know damn why no one can say anything because of NDA's.

At least they HAVE rivers in the game.  Maybe the Stardock team can ask him that question... "How the hell do we get rivers in the game??"

I am looking forward to the day when Frogboy announces he hired the Geico gecko as Stardock's new official spokesman. 

Or did he hire Stanley?

Then our panel of 3 judges are going to have to put you through a rigorous interview process.  First, we need to see how far you can jump.  Second, we need to assess your ability to catch bugs from 4 inches away with your tongue.  Third, we will need to reference check all your childhood friends and see if they and you could breathe underwater.  After that your resume will be entered in our database and if a match comes up we will surely contact you.

Based on those qualifications, I think you should be the next Bachelor on ABC.

What's your point?  I never pretended not to have pulled the numbers from thin air.  They were part of a sarcastic-to-make-a-point closing, not part of some sort of pricing or value analysis. 

Without knowing prices I still know the value that their response and dedication gives me.  They have admitted their mistakes and are trying to make up for my disappointment with EWOM by dedicating resources to future projects and then not charging me for them.  Will they hit a home run with said projects?  Who knows.  Will I agree and love every design decision of EFE?  Probably not.  It's irrelevant.  They're trying to atone for past mistakes.  For now, that's enough for me.  

If you have some larger point than "price and value are not the same thing" than I missed it.  You're comment seemed irrelevant to my point.

Blind loyalty?  They've already committed enough resources to fund development through 2011.  They're launching a new game.  I'm getting it for free because they screwed up the launch of the last game.  That's not blind loyalty.  That's fact.  

Do I expect the game to be good?  Yes.  Because they've talked at length on the forums about what they think went wrong with the EWOM launch and what they're doing to correct those problems.  And also because I've been in PM roles where projects have gone wrong for reasons like Brad says the EWOM team went through.  The issues Brad described during his many AARs and what resulted are entirely believable.  

I think that their openness about what has transpired and their commitment to try and provide a better experience to the customers who bought into EWOM early on earns them loyalty.  

I don't believe that people should be destroyed for their mistakes as long as they acknowledge them, learn from them, and don't repeat them.  

Now, if EFE ends up being a disaster too, I'd change my opinion.  But based on what I've seen in the way of openness and what Stardock is attempting to do to earn back my trust, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.  

As for my "blind loyalty" being relevant to you, I don't particularly give a damn one way or the other.  I was critical of things I thought were warranted during beta.  I also praise things that deserve to be praised.  If they deserve to be criticized for the launch they equally deserve to be praised for how they've handled things since.  You couldn't have scripted a much better developer response to a failed game launch that what we've gotten with Elemental.  We've been promised (and provided a few) fixes.  Given word of free content in the future as repayment.  Given ample insider details on how and why the problems occurred and what is being done to fix it.  What else could you possibly want?  What developer has ever handled a failed launch better?  

Short of having a magic "Fix-It" button to push and make all your Elemental dreams come true, there's not much more they could have done since launch.  

Seriously.. what else do you want?