There's nothing wrong with talking about Civ. It's merely in the wrong forum section and should be moved over.

I'm not a big Civ fan, but I played the demo of V and enjoyed it. It is 100 times more polished than Elemental. Depth etc can be discussed forever, but to even claim that Civ V is almost as bad as elemental at launch is off-the-scale ridiculous, regardless of personal gaming preference.

That pretty sums up how I feel about the Civ series.  Except I've played the rest and, yes, you've done the right thing.  Every subsequent game has just added unneeded fluff to the core game.

Are people still comparing Civ V to Elemental? haha Thanks for the laugh guys!

Good point, I'm outta here!

CIV 5 *looks* more polished. It has more features right now.

However CIV5 has crappy turn by turn performace. My machine will blow the socks off alot of peoples, I didnt have performance issues like alot of people did with Elemental. However in CIV, even small map few players, turn to turn lag is hell. The AI is retarded, like seriously retarded. There are some balance issues but the way the game is played i think they are harder to notice. Elemental half the races are exactly the same so its easier to pick them up.

Dont get me wrong I like both games, and dont think either game is up to its potential. But they are entirely different types of TBS.

Firaxis and Stardock both have alot of work to do in both Single and Multiplay for both these games.

I've been saying for a long time that the major game reviewers base their reviews on polish and accessibilty more than anything else.  Take GTA 4 for example, it was far more shallow than GTA San Andreas, but got higher reviews across the board.

Same thing with the Halo series.  If you went by game reviewers, Halo is the best FPS series on the planet.  Yet, most true FPS fans would argue that Counter Strike, Battlefield, Quake, Half Life, and Call of Duty are superior and were doing what Halo did, only years and years earlier.  But since Halo is so accessible, it gets most of the mainstream praise.

If you were to strip away the slick interface, and the overall polish of Civ 5, I would say Elemental is the deeper game overall.  So, yes, Civ 5 looks a lot prettier and feels a lot nicer.  The problem, as I see it though, is that you can fix a poorly polished game a lot easier than you can fix the overall depth of game-play.

I'm sorry, but from where I'm sitting, you're the troll, you haven't added anything to this thread and are only being disruptive to a totally relevant discussion.

You are saying this is an Elemental board, and you are right. As such, comparing Elemental to the reigning "king" of TBS games (whether you like to admit it or not, Civ is THE 4x turn-based strategy game to beat) is most definitely completely, and totally relevant. Just b/c it's an Elemental forum doesn't mean people that post here have to put on blinders and ignore the rest of the world, even suggesting that is silly. Of course people are going to compare Elemental to other games, but especially Civ, as it's the most popular TBS series there is, and as long as people are being constructive, i.e. not just coming in and being all like "Civ 5 is the shznit, and Elemental is a steaming pile of poop", then I can't think of a better topic for an Elemental forum.

As for Civ 5...I got it the day it was released, the digital "Deluxe" edition no less, and I have to say that I am thoroughly enjoying it. I disagree with some of the design decisions, for example I think removing Religion, and to a much lesser degree Espionage, were mistakes, but overall I think it is a step forward for the series. It has definitely improved in it's presentation and accessibility, while retaining it's strategic depth, something not very easy to do imo. I also keep hearing people moaning about the AI and I really don't think it's that bad...well, the opponent AI is not terrible anyway, the ally AI is pretty retarded and makes some odd choices, but at higher difficulties the opponent AI does present some challenge (mainly b/c it cheats, so it's still not a great AI, just more difficult to beat). Yeah, the game does try to lead you by the hand a bit, but in no way plays the game for you, if you make bad choices you will pay for it. I don't know, I have to say that besides removing Religion and Espionage, they made all the right choices in design.

To compare Civ 5 and Elemental...well, even though they are both in the same genre, they are different games with different goals. Elemental is a HUGELY ambitious game that is overflowing with potential to be a truly epic game, it's just not there yet, it's not finished and needs more time to bake. That being said I am confident that given more time to iterate, Elemental will be an epic game that I can play for hours on end, but it's not there yet. Civ 5 is there now though(although admittedly the AI can use some work, but it always takes time for a really good AI) , and that's the biggest difference between the two. Now, if you take both games where they are right now, I have to say that Civ 5 is the better game, but I am more then willing to give Elemental more time and think that in time, Stardock can make Elemental into more then what Civ is.

Well, we will have to disagree then.  Sure, we have the new hex combat mechanic, but the poor AI doesn't even use it effectively.  As it has been mentioned above, unlike Elemental, Civ 5 doesn't separate units from buildings in construction, so you lose choices there.  Civ 5 doesn't let you get heroes, it doesn't let you get magic, it doesn't let you have sovereigns, it doesn't let you have dynasties or customize your units, it lacks integrated modding, and on and on.  Civilization let's you build units or buildings and that's about it.  So I see far less strategic choices in a standard game of Civilization.  In fact, one of the problems in Elemental is that there are too many choices to make as to how you're going to play.

To date I've probably played 10 to 20 times longer on Civ V if not more and at current status I'd give Civ 9/10 and Elemental 3/10 (Elemental is just not fun currently, I'd rather play other "broken" games that are fun even).

BUT, in terms of potential love I think Civ V will lose its appeal over time and settle out as a 7.5/10 or 8/10 at a push, Elemental on the other hand could be my absolute favourite game of all time, if it hits all that I had imagined for launch it'll easily be 20/10. I'm hopeful this will happen and I have faith in Brad and Stardock (though to a much lesser extent than most people as I only ever saw Galciv as TOTA and no earlier incarnations).

So to sum up currently Civ V >>> Elemental, but I expect and hope that in a year's time Elemental >>> Civ V and in a few years time Elemental >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Civ V and all other games.

While I love elemental Civ V is infinitely more playable for me at the moment. The biggest problem I have with Civ V is that the AI turns past turn 500 are pretty damn slow, and the occasional graphical bug, whereas with Elemental I can't reliably play past turn 200 (out of memory, ridiculous performance issues). And Civ is the only game I've ever played where I've been nuked by Gandhi. Twice.

That's one of the points were you do not make a choice in Elemental. There isn't one.

Elemental is full of no-choices.  What about bows? In which battle situation would you choose to use the shortbow over the longbow? They are researched simultaneously so obviously they are supposed to be alternatives.

If you find a spell research resource, would you choose to not build a city there because you decided on a tech-research strategy? I think not.
Again, spells and tech research simultaneously so... no-choice.

If you can build squads, in which fighting situation would it be advantageous to have single soldier units instead? Any?

In Elemental you generally have the choice of getting more: yes / no.
Your only option is to choose not to do or build the obviously beneficial or more powerful thing.
That's not how I understand "choice" in a game.

That's why I suggested more advanced tactical battle rules so there would be a choice between fast and strong units - even smaller units! All would be beneficial in different ways. I suggested a deeper magic system so there would be choices in how you fight and research and which and how many spell books you use.
As much as I like Elemental, it is not a strategy game that gives the player many choices.  It only has many features, which is not the same thing.