Can you maybe just make a handicap, I like my sovereign starting as a weakling, makes it mean so much more when you get to endgame. Maybe something like Sovereign starts with a handicap of 2 - 5 spells or something, or none at all, I feel that by forcing you to start at a certain point will decrease the challenge later in the game. you wont be able to customize it to be more difficult you'll just always have to start with spells.

Since the other thread blew up I'll repost some stuff here.

Regarding Essence, I think it would be cool if it could be "invested" into things without permanently losing it. E.g. plant a Seed of Life in the ground that would start reviving the land around it. The Seed would remain there and it could be dispeled by enemy Sovereigns (or a two faced ally). Therefore planting it under your capital would be beneficial. If the Seed would be dispeled, the Essence would try to return to the caster but could be stolen by another Sovereign using Death magic. I think it would also be cool that if the seed would stay in the earth long enough it could create a Tree of Life that would act as a Shard for Life magic. Same thing with imbuing a champion with Essence - if they die the Essence would try to return to the caster but could be stolen by another Sovereign.

Perhaps powerful global enchantments would require you to transfer some Essence into a Shard to maintain the enchantment? And again, if the enchantment is dispeled or you choose to end it, you get the Essence back. Becoming temporarily weaker while maintaining something really powerfu like permanent thunderstorms sounds appropriate I think.

For ease and simplicity of use make Essence regen be tied to "owned Shards", whether Pioneer captured (.5x) or City encased (1x or 1.5) based. This would encourages both early scouting (dangerous) and City based (safer) at (1.5x) per Shard.

Shard types don't matter in regards to regen, but it still matters to which Magic spell types and the need for certain Shards to be owned to cast said spell types.

If I scout early and manage to Pio 2 shards (Air/Ice), while dropping my first City on another (Fire), I have a current Essence regen rate of 2(x). (remote is set at .5x each)

Since I still require time to research the Magic needed to use that bonus Essence, via whatever means I choose, I should be able to stockpile my early gains to a Max. level based on my starting SoV stats.

If I lose the 2 Pio based sources, then my bad, but my regen remains 1(x) due to the City source.All Cities lost is a Death Knell anyways.

I would make note of the the ideas in the Essence based on Mana thread elsewhere on that thought.

After reading thru this entire thread and doing some additional thinking, I've tried to organize my thoughts. There are so many GREAT ideas in this thread it took me all day to digest them. I'm not adding too many new ideas here, but did want to support the ideas I truly thought would add fun factor to the game.

In keeping with the original definitions for stats (ESSENCE, MANA, WISDOM, INTELLIGENCE) as closely as possible, here's what my preferences are, apologies for the verbosity:

ESSENCE LOSS & REGEN

I feel requiring a permanent ESSENCE cost is fine for a very select amount of spells where it makes sense, but I think more should only result in a temporary reduction. Some constructs discussed of MAX ESSENCE with temporary and permanent loss solve this I believe.

Something like this works for me:

• Permanent loss: imbue champion, revive/enrich land, resurrection, high level enchantments, etc.
• Temporary reduction: healing, some enchantments/buffs, high level summons, volcano, etc.

I agree about a very slow ESSENCE regeneration for temporary losses. I also like the ideas about harvested shards and/or settlements (especially with certain improvements) being responsible or contributing to ESSENCE regeneration.

I also like the idea where can choose how much ESSENCE to sacrifice for certain spells increasing the probability of a better/stronger result. Put 2 or 3 ESSENCE into a revive spell and the area is greatly increased, or more fertile tiles are produced. Put more into a SUMMON spell and the elemental/demon has increased HP, stats, or magic ability.

ESSENCE and MANA

Max mana ought to be dependent on a character's WIS and ESSENCE stats in some form me thinks. A casters LEVEL would also make sense. I'm not sure if current or max ESSENCE would be more apropos, but straight multiplying of these seems to give too much variation.

Balance testing would surely need to be done regardless of the equation used, but perhaps something like: MAX MANA = (LEVEL + WISDOM) * (ESSENCE / 10)

I also think ESSENCE should determine mana regeneration (e.g. ESSENCE / 10). It makes intuitive sense to me.

ENCHANTMENTS

I also think the ideas about buffs and enchantments having slots & taking spell points to maintain have merit.

SPELL POINTS & WISDOM

I don’t really like the hard (read: contrived) cap on spell points. I think this can be removed.

First, see enchantments. Second, lose (or greatly reduce) building contributions (ala Monastery). I'd like to see all casters have a WIS stat and generate spell points. In conjunction, more spell points might be required to learn most spells. Also, requiring a NPC/Caster to be stationed in the city/improvement to get the spell points each turn would solve this. This would also force strategic use of casters in armies vs. researchers/teachers.

I like that WIS determines spell point generation each turn.

INTERFACE

I like the ideas about separating known from un-researched spells and the tab/matrix system that were described. A good queue system will reduce wasted spell points and make it feel more like researching spells (and less like buying them).

I would be extremely pleased if each caster was able to keep his/her own unique spell book(s). Having the ability to trade/teach them (provided the other caster has appropriate stat levels) similar to equipment trading. This construct could serve to specialize casters further and make them a more strategic asset. There are certainly larger implications with this construct however, such as spell point research, but one can hope

INTELLIGENCE STAT

My view is that the INT stat ought to have varied effects on a spells results. It may already be doing all of these things, but I can't tell from the beta testing thus far.

INT should affect:

• spell range
• amount of damage
• number of or hit points of summoned units
• length and effectiveness of buff/enchantment, etc...
• Maybe even control the number of spells a caster can learn per level.

SHARDS, SPELLS, & SCHOOLS (OH MY!)

• I like having ability to choose schools/books of magic at sovereign creation.
• Choosing a starting shard in your first/capital city, and/or not requiring a shard for low level school spells would be good solutions IMO.
• Some core low level spells (low spell point cost) per school are needed.
• I like the idea where each spell can be researched to a greater level of proficiency (1-5, 8, 10 or whatever) where the next level has more range, affects more targets, lasts longer, cost less mana, etc.) This allows the caster to become highly specialize (and powerful) or more balanced...either way more unique
• Scrolls & rare spells…like it! Would like a ‘transcribe’ ability or technology allowing a caster to add this to the spell book otherwise lose the ability to cast it once the scroll is used.
• I like that some spells cross schools/disciples and require more than one type of shard (e.g. volcano)

I dont know if that idea was already mentioned, so i am just writing away and you flame me if it is just a repeat

Make shards neutral, not bound to a specific element at start.

Each of the elements that your Sov starts with gives the Sov the ability to atune a neutral shard to that element. So even if your Sov starts with just one spellbook (lets say fire), the shards he finds will be usefull.

Atunement from neutral should be free of cost, but to clear an atunement, you should need to pay essence (to avoid shard ping pong in later games).

But shards should also be usefull to Sov's who dont have spellbooks. How about them giving boni to the city that they are build in.

Some ideas:

Earth - Fertility is increased (+ Food); Walls are stronger (+2 defense in city)

Fire - Fires in the city burn much hotter (+ Armory production bonus); Hotheaded population (Soldiers trained here get Berzerk ability)

Air - Things seem lighter here (+Construction Boni); Airport (Special Building Airport - can construct Airships (faster caravans))

Water - Pure Water (+ Population grows); Healing Spring (+ Regen bonus); Cleansening Water (Disenchantments cast here have there power increased)

Neutral - Sparkly (+ Influence / Prestige); Raw Power (Enchantments cast here / Items created here have their power increased);

Corrupted - Death Gate (Chance that pop decreases, but Undead units spawn here under control of Sovereign. If pop reaches 0 it turns into ruins and the Sov looses control over the units.)

Maelstrom Shard - Counts as random shard each turn.

Removed because Jack said it better than I did.

Death of your sovereign SHOULD make you cry...

Its utterly retarded to think that getting your Sovereign killed (Who represents YOU by the way) should simply result in a minor shrug of the shoulders and a casual Aaah well...

Personally I'd have your essence cut in HALF for Sovereign death so stop your whining on that point. It goes without saying that using your Sov in battle should carry risks as well as the obvious reward of spearheading with your most powerful unit.

A King may participate in a battle but he understands the risks. Don't like it then go hide in your city like a coward... Just don't be surprised if my Assassins don't come a knockin.

@Saije: Under the current system your idea favors a purely NON-caster sovereign... which is fine if all you want to see are built-to-survive Sovereigns.

The main thrust here is that Ess should be a penalty/advantage equally to all build/type of sovereigns.  Even under the Beta 3 system, dieing is only important to a Warfare type sovereign if he falls under a minimum threshold, be that 1 or 5.  Up until that point the non-caster DOES NOT CARE.  Which is pisspoor design.

Dr. Frank - I like this idea quite a bit, and think you may be on to something. It also makes intuitive sense to me, and may solve the ESSENCE issue for combat inclined sovereigns.

I'm willing to wait and see how the revised system plays out in Beta 3 however; since in order to accomplish this (based on Froggie's latest description of what magic will look like in Beta 3), the following changes would need to be made:

• Change ESSENCE back (to a happy medium) and make it required (permanently or temporarily) for some major spells
• Make mana regeneration a character stat again - dependent on ESSENCE (and maybe WISDOM)
• Make health regeneration dependent on ESSENCE
• Make max HP dependent on ESSENCE and CONSTITUTION  

I also think that adding more than 1 ESSENCE ought to be possible during level-up; and that saving from death/defeat should still cost a player an ESSENCE point.

On a different note, I'd like to suggest that maybe you tie your essence recovery rate to the number of nodes you own.  I was going to suggest that nodes lose their "color" completely, so that whatever books you choose during sovereign creation define your spellbook, and any node can let you cast from that book (ie, fireball takes 2 nodes to cast, maybe summonings take 3 nodes, etc).  I'm not sure I like that idea, however, it goes dangerously close to AOW:SM mechanics where nodes just got you mana recovery rate only.  That mechanic had nodes of a color other than your chosen type only giving half the mana they would otherwise (eg, an air node only gave 10 mana to a fire based caster, but a fire node gave 20).

Just to put my two cents in, I think the simplest solution is best.

Wisdom = mana. Problem solved.

Think about the implications:

-Now the currently-useless wisdom stat has a unique and essential purpose separate from int and essence.

-Now all champions have mana based on wisdom, allowing 'normal' spells (ones that cost mana only) to be useable by many units, while 'epic' spells (consume essence) are still reserved for the sovereign.

-Essence is otherwise unchanged, which I think this is a good thing. It's a unique mechanic very different from the normal casters in every other RPG, it allows for some awesome game-changing spells that are balanced by using up this precious, limited resource. The only problem with essence is that it's tied to your mana and thus your ability to cast normal spells at the same time. This makes the most powerful spellcasters ironically unwilling to use their best spells, because losing maximum mana gimps all their other spells, remove the connection between essence and mana and essence is instantly fixed.

-Imbue champion, creation of fertile land, volanoes, etc - any powerful essence using spell you can come up with, they're all now interesting and viable ways to expend your essence as long as you don't lose mana by doing so.