Why can't you people love each other?

Nothing wrong with optimism from Frogboy, I approve.

The few but significant number of people who have just said they actually like forums to be close minded flame-fests dishearten me though. They're not entertaining, they're innane, petty and most frustratingly of all; full of misinformation.

It'd help if some of the junk went to the off topic section, there's far too many lolcats, patrick stewart facepalms and other 10 year old memes going around as well as the hate. Regurgitated spam like that in the discussion forum will only encourage even less thought before posting in the future.

Shut up Frogboy, yer dumb.. you don't know what you're talking about.  Go get a life!

j/k j/k

I agree with you completely.  People should try to see other peoples point of views more, and worry less about trying to be "The One Who Is More Right." hehe

Anyways, good post.  I try to only agree or disagree in non-hostile ways, and always try to make the original poster feel encouraged to post again by leaving constructive feedback.  Hopefully, the community will read up and take to heart.

I think Frogboy is trying to say that's the very kind of response that doesn't help anyone.

Especially when people can't find the time to articulate what makes them any less "noob" like than the people they're insulting.

Exactly, DroopyTheDog. Shame on you, Chaosnaska. No one benefits from being called something as ill-described as "noob".

I could insert a few links here to prove a point but i won't. If you want proof that community forums have gone from excellent to good to bad to worst in a matter of weeks rather than years of superbly civilized participations by plenty, i can only suggest this;

- Freedom of expression allows people to share their opinions and as a result, society becomes the mechanism used by anyone to either support a majority or introduce extremist thoughts through cunningly designed minority. Moderate or ban members which destroy the consensus & harmony or suffer the fact that some have personal agendas or attempt to coordinate attacks against, for example of late, Impulse.

- People have manners & proper education... some are influenced by friends, parents, Alcohol, drugs and what else. 50% of it is junk as your usual spam dropped into eMail boxes. That's the price of democracy driven communications. Fight for your rights or tolerate it but remember this -- rioting or protesting in public will certainly find its opposition when it matters. Forums, included.

In the meantime, don't worry about the situation and ignore the illusion of negative power shown, it is starving to death by itself - as history proves.

Don't feed the trolls motto might be a better way to handle the principles brought by the process but let me give you this last remark; Stand up to evil and lock it in jails forever.

Just take out the trash, idiocy breeds more idiocy.  There are probably 4-5 trolls you could ban for a bit and most of them were kind enough to point themselves out in this thread.

There's something to say for cummunity moderation such as is on the youtube commentary: Sufficient 'thumbs down' on a post and it automatically is not displayed to visitors unless they request to see it.

Or get some serious moderators with the power to at least temporarily ban posters from particular sections of the forum.

There is no doubt always hostile members of a community, even those who really enjoy getting on the nerves of others.  I have seen several methods to deal with this, from heavy fisted to extremely lax.  I personally moderate for both 2K and EA and their communities, and each company has a completely different viewpoint on how to handle things.  I've also been an administrator of several other game related communities, and what I've typically seen is that in most cases the only way to initiate change is to lay down a blanket of fair but reliably enforced rules via community support staff.

Trolls and those who choose to flame typically grow like weeds, the more that they get away with things, the more destructive that they become.  If a community manager and a team of moderators are granted the ability to enforce rules, and do so consistently, those that will simply not modify their behavior ultimately end up being purged.  With some of the most hostile members serving permanent bans or temporary suspensions, the general community has less abrasive talk to deal with (and to defend against / attack), and over time things become much more civil.  In turn, the kind of members that you want to have in your community tend to stay.

I've seen arguments both ways where if you're too tough the community diminishes, and if you're too easy the community degrades into a l33t speak filled flamewars.  There's really a solid middle ground though that can be achieved by proper staff and sufficient punishment systems.  For example, 2K supports an infraction system which allows for several levels of warnings prior to a temporary or permanent ban.  Very rarely is anyone dealt the banhammer, primarily because the punishment usually fits the crime so to speak. 

So when I hear people say that you can't change the "internets" as if Brad's efforts are fruitless, I immediately disagree.  The truth is you can change the community which you lead on a micro level without too much effort.  Brad is not looking to change the world, he is only asking that the local community here which operates on the forum which he owns behaves in a respectful manner towards others.  That is entirely possible.

Well, neither asking, nor is closing your eyes and pretend that nasty people aren't there is enough, unfortunately. That's why i've said you can't change the internets. It's always been this way. All you can do is make a set of rules and moderate more closely, as you said.

You can go to a forum and in one section find rampant flaming and spamming and then go to another section on the same forum and find civilized debate.  The difference? Moderators.  Have rules regarding appropriate behavior and enforce them.  Asking for people to be nice is just not enough unfortunately.

Heh heh, oh interwebs.  You people are so silly.  I love the three pages of polite discourse on why the internet can never contain polite discourse.  In this thread, pretty much all who have contributed have contributed constructively.  Even those that expressed opposing opinions did it calmly, albiet with some name-calling.  Sure, evil roams the internet, and we'll never get rid of it, but the kind of example that those of us that frequent the forums can set can go a long way.  Decent moderating to weed out those that simply say things unproductive like "THIS GAME SUX" without justification can help too, but that's also a far cry from silenting dissent.  If we can refer people to threads which contain their problems already, and allow people to respectfully disagree, we can be a good community.

Can't we all just get along?