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Join Date 01/2007

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The Discovery of Life outside Earth. (and its causes and effects)

When, and if we ever discover life outside of Earth it is going to be extremely monumental. It will be a turning point in human history, thinking, and most definitely religion. At the moment we have not discovered life outside yet obviously, and has anyone ever thought about the wake up call this is going to bring when we do?

Think about it... whether we find intelligent alien life, or microsopic bacterial, all the worlds religion and faith in those old religions will be questioned. This cannot be denied. And more than likely, new religions and revisions of old ones will surely be created. For example, How else will the christian religion be able to explain itself once life outside Earth is found? Earth is suppose to be special and unique and alone among a sea (heh) of planets and stars devoid of life... according to the bible.

And when, if, we do find life outside Earth... this is going to give humans a new way to view themselves. We will truly see we are just a species thriving and carving our own niche in our own ecosystem and soon, the universal ecosystem. In a new way, humans will bond. Maybe I'm being too optimistic here, but racism and hostility between groups of humans will cease, or atleast be greatly reduced in the event of finding intelligent alien life.

It will be us versus them. The aliens. We are humans. Not blacks, whites, latinos, asians, so on and so forth. Humans goddamnit.

We will be divided in a new way... not by the color of our skin or upbringing, but how we view the approach we take to an intelligent alien species. Do we offer peace? Do we trade technology? Do we try to develop a friendship and mutual understanding? Do we declare war? Do we eliminate them out of fear?

What do you think we would, or should do in the event of discovering alien life?

I personally think we should develop a watch and learn mentality. We should try communicating with them and try opening up a line of understanding between us and them. I am certain that, as long as this intelligent species in question, "speaks" or has a language of some sort, we could possibly trade "rosetta stones" between eachother.

Let me know what you think.

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There's actually some very convincing mathematical arguments in favor of there being no other intelligent life existing in our portion of the galaxy. Based on what we estimate the makeup of the galaxy to be and what little we know about nearby planets in other solar systems, the chance of life forming independently on other planets is almost 0%. Research projects like scanning for radio signals (SETI) and other smaller scale projects that search for anomolies in the light coming from stars, and the projected influence a species with faster than light travel should have, there isn't any evidence whatosever yet of an intelligent alien race having ever existed. So I think it's a little silly to say "when" we find it since if "it" is out there it never invented the radio and faster than light travel either isn't possible or wasn't invented either.

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Are you Smoking crack?

And if so where can I get some.

Note: Any form of drugs is dangerous to get high off of. Be stupid at your own risk.

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[quote who="ganKing" comment="1"]

There's actually some very convincing mathematical arguments in favor of there being no other intelligent life existing in our portion of the galaxy. Based on what we estimate the makeup of the galaxy to be and what little we know about nearby planets in other solar systems, the chance of life forming independently on other planets is almost 0%. Research projects like scanning for radio signals (SETI) and other smaller scale projects that search for anomolies in the light coming from stars, and the projected influence a species with faster than light travel should have, there isn't any evidence whatosever yet of an intelligent alien race having ever existed. So I think it's a little silly to say "when" we find it since if "it" is out there it never invented the radio and faster than light travel either isn't possible or wasn't invented either.

[/quote]

Just as there are mathematical equations and models predicting No intelligent life, there are just as many models and equations that show that it is definitely possible. SETI is dumb. No question about it. But you also have to consider that maybe they just don't know where to aim their signals at yet. With the discovery of over 320 planets recently, and the newly installed Kepler mission, once we start seeing new planets with possible life, it would help failing programs like SETI to pin point and aim their transmissions better.

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Darth, dumb comment.

You realize we once thought planets outside of our Solar System never existed? We've found OVER 320 planets to date. The Kepler mission hasn't even started yet, and we've found that many so far. Kepler is purposely going to look for planets similar to Earth... we've already found a planet that exists within a habitable zone (which is a section in a solar srystem where liquid water is capable of forming).

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If we are alone in the universe, just think how much weirder that would be than meeting an alien race.

The first person to meet the aliens would be what they concider all humans to be. So if the Spanish made first contact, we would all probably have to start speaking Spanish, as so not to confuse the aliens.

But the chances of there not being aliens in nill. There are thousands of of galaxys, each with thousands of stars and solar systems and about 10 planets per system. It would be near imposible for there not to be another lifeform anywere, but a habitable planet would be different

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Earth is suppose to be special and unique and alone among a sea (heh) of planets and stars devoid of life... according to the bible.

Can you point me to the scriptural reference(s) to this claim?

Granted, the Bible may only be speaking of our own planet. But that may also be taking a very limited view of what the Bible is actually saying. There may be other star systems that were created in parallel to our own - which is a concept that is not discounted by the Biblical account of Creation, as far as I know.

And still the thought remains... No other indication of intelligent life has yet been discovered. But even in our own galaxy such life could not be discovered unless it was within the constraint of light-speed communications distances. We search for radio waves and other such EM waves. But in open space they only travel (at most) the speed of light. So the signals would have to be within around 120 light years of our planet, assuming a parallel developement.

EM waves attenuate with distance. So the farther the source is from us, the weaker the signal. So even if there were radio waves from another planet, they would likely be too weak and scattered for our receivers to make sense of.

The only possible hope of discovering life 'like' our own on another planet (in even the distant foreseeable future) would be if they were to come to us.

Given that our galaxy is around 100,000 lightyears in diameter, and that the formation of life is so improbable in a purely evolutionary sense, I would estimate the chances of us coming into contact with an intelligent life form in our own lifetime to be about 1 in a quadrillion. - in short, nil.

We need to learn to live with ourselves, by ourselves. Not by the futile hope that an outside agent would come into play.

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It would be near imposible for there not to be another lifeform anywere, but a habitable planet would be different

That's funny.

Near impossible for there not to be another lifeform, but just the opposite for a habitable planet?

If it is near impossible to have another habitable planet, how is it so possible to have another lifeform?

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Chances are, if we or vice versa, discover life existing outside our planet, first and foremost, sh*t and the fan will collide with such force it'll blanket the entire planet. Also, they they visit us first, some tard is going to make us go to war with them if they are "peaceful" in some way. Assassination, insult... w/e someone'll cause hell with the alien race and we'll be screwed, and it'll be the biggest /facepalm moment ever.

Just hope I don't live lond enough to be embarassed by it :/

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i just hope that i live long enough. I think its the best way to die: by an alien weapon

Just that i can say: "i know, we are not alone" whould be great

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As im sitting at my computer at 3:00 am CST hyped up on mountain dew from work, bored to tears and wishing i could go to sleep with my fiance in bed, i happen to browse throught the sins forum. I have to say this because it has always bothered me and i like hearing other peoples opinions,here i go hope i dont start a war .......

Why do people always think aliens will be peaceful? Is it because they have had thousands of years to develop technologyto reach other worlds so they must have eliminated all war? I must say that this view is flawed in the extreme(in my ownopinion of course,I could very well be wrong no way to know until we do find aliens,which btw i think we may eventually, but i digress, back to topic).

The fact people keep forgeting is that they are alien look up the definition if you care to or here is a link.http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/alien

(sorry dont remember how to get hyperlinks and too lazy to find out)

Anyway aliens could very well be peaceful, or not or(and not many people consider this) they may care as much about us as we do ants, they might just not care, they may want to trade and interac with us or they may close their borders and refuse all diplomatic overtures. My point is that we just cannot know and ascribing human traits to aliens is just plain foolishand will only hurt us in the end. If you have any comments please post them i like a good argument as long as it dont turn into a screaming match, so lets keep civil.

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Killforcash, that is true. We have no idea until the day it actually happens, or if it does. Either way, it is going to be a wake up call for the human race. I agree that ascribing human traits to an alien can be foolish, but alas, it is all we can do until we learn more. No matter what, we can atleast determine whether they are Warlike or are Peaceful. The two fundamental human traits that animals also have as attributes. And conaisering that technically, using our models of science so far, an alien is not really special at all, but normal, to exist just like humans and animals on our planet do. More than likely, the concept of war and peace is one that all species of races in the galaxy would know and understand.

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Moosetek, I am not religious. However, I do have family members and friends who are deeply religious, mostly Christian or Muslim. I have encountered many christians who have stated that planets outside our solar system is not possible, because God created Earth and the rest of the planets in the solar system to show us "his love" for us and that we are special. They obviously know that isn't true now, as we've discovered over 320 planets outside our solar system to date.

Not to mention, in the age of Galileo, it was thought (due to christianity and a lack of technology) that EVERYTHING revolved around the Earth. As we know today, that is not true. It revolves around the Sun. The bible thumpers of the day stated that the everything revolves around the earth and they killed, tortured, or imprisoned anyone who disagreed with them through Science. Science prevailed.

True to what you said though, the bible and it's followers probably only understood it as only being in relation to our planet. Either way, the bible makes no mention of aliens on other planets or other planets for that matter. So what happens when or if we do discover a new species outside of Earth? What now? How can it explain that without adding it into the bible, which would be blasphemy, as supposedly, you're not suppose to change the wording of the bible.... hmm... it's fucked, thats what.

Also remember, just the act of discovering any life at all outside Earth, intelligent or not, is enough to send shockwaves throughout the religious communities. If even microscopic bacteria is found, that means life outside Earth DOES certainly exist, which brings us the possibility of their being even more life out there.

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It is ignorant and stupid to assume that with all of the vastness of the universe out there that there is no alien life. We have already discovered 320 planets and countless stars, each most likly having thier own solar systems. Even from a biblical view why would God create all the rest of the universe and not populate it and who says he didnt create other intelligent life. The possibility, however, that we will meet these other speicies is extremly remote, for the universe is so big that they might never even enter our galaxy (assuming they dont live there). There are probably hundreds if not thousands of intelligent alien races out there but Im almost certain that we will not meet them, if we ever do, in our lifetime.

and Darth-plaigus' comment is not dumb, you have to be either on drugs or completely ignorant to belive that we are alone in this HUGE universe! I will give him karma for having intelligance and mentioning that drugs are stupid!

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What will happen if we discovered an insect like alien fighting a psionic alien? We will probably send n space marines.

http://www.starcraft2.com/

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Protocept, the truth about what happened to Galileo is not quite as one sided as you might think.

I think you would be interested to know that while Galileo, while ultimately proven correct, had no way to conclusively prove his theory of heliocentrictiy without being able to detect the motions of nearby stars in front of the more distant starfield as the earth revolved around the sun (this being called parallax). Telescopes that could actually see this phenomenon did not come about until 1838, where parallax was first observed. Galileo's house arrest, while regrettable, had a much larger political dimension (and Galileo being less than diplomatic in the presenting of his theory) outside the outright renuciation of the theory of heliocentricity.

Some Protestant leaders gave stronger statements against the theory, but I haven't heard of any other mistreating of scientists due to them putting forward the heliocentric theory. Copernican's initial work hardly raised a stir when it was published. Care to give a few more details on who these "anyone" are?

True to what you said though, the bible and it's followers probably only understood it as only being in relation to our planet. Either way, the bible makes no mention of aliens on other planets or other planets for that matter. So what happens when or if we do discover a new species outside of Earth? What now? How can it explain that without adding it into the bible, which would be blasphemy, as supposedly, you're not suppose to change the wording of the bible.... hmm... it's fucked, thats what.

You're making a tempest in a teapot, no such changes need be made. I have no doubt Christianity will survive such a revelation. God is still God if He created other lifeforms outside of the earth, it's certainly within His power and rights.

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@proto

i disagree with the fact that animals have a concept of peace and war. Do animals sack a city for loot, massacre innocent women and children simply because they follow a different religion,attack a nation tosecure natural resources, crucify slaves who rise up to take their freedom(im talking about the roman slave rebellion here in case anyone is interested)?just because there is violence in the animal world, indeed in some animals themselves does not mean they have even the remotest concept of peace or war. Even though when these things do happen we ascribe the animal name to the perpetrators, its still not the same thing.anyway other than that right on with your post in my opinion aliens are not special just different.

PS btw Cthulhu mean anything to anybody? i think its relevent to this thread.

EDIT: lol just looked at the op againand ya despite my rants i almost want a war with an alien race cause it could very well force us to jumpstart our space program again. Anybody read Through the Looking Glass by John Ringo, god i love rednecks with heavy weapons.

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Quoting Adzyman,

reply 5

There are thousands of of galaxys, each with thousands of stars ...

Try tens of billions of galaxies (current estimates are in the range of 80 to 125 billion galaxies in the observable universe) and an average of roughly 400 billion stars in the typical galaxy.

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There is intelligent life out there. Its absolutely undeniable. There are more stars in the universe than grains of sand on all of earths beaches. Shear probability means there must be.

Also recent computer models have been made to simulate solar sytem formation. These models show that planets will not only collect enough water to sustain life but they will also be within the habbital zone. Some models show Earth is even a bit dry.

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We are NOT alone.

Odds are sooooo tooooo great against this simple statement that proving otherwise is infinitely impossible;

Frank Drake formula.

Gliese 581, barely 20LYs away from us.

Milky Way conditions multiplied exponentially throughout THIS Universe.

Nothing religious, or scientific about it.

It's even beyond our current means to even affirm Intelligent Life Form(s) is -- somehow -- unique to Earth.

I doubt contact is possible though; distance, humanity "physical" barriers. The only reasonable obstacle to this logic is coincidental evolutions (refer to Drake's L factor) of more than one sentient specie or where they are.

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I assume that if we meet some kinda alien race in the near future it will end really badly for us.

If the aliens are about as advanced as we are, its going to lead to fear from both sides. which will probably end up leading to some kinda war that will end with one of us dead and the other mostly dead.

If your aliens are way more advanced thatn us, that i see a few possibilities. the best being that they are ultra benelovent and try to help us out. going by human history and the number of times a more advanced civilization came into contact with a less advanced and instead conqured them, i'd say the odds of our aliends helping us are pretty small.

If they wont help us hopefully they'll just ignore us. thas probably the most likely positive scenario.

Negative scenarios would be that they view us as a form of livestock, much in the same way we veiw cows. if they don't harvest us for some kind of resource, or mine the planet to a point where it wont support life, maybe they will use us as slaves.

Maybe if we're lucky they put us in alien versions of zoos.

worst case, they veiw us as an infestation and hit us with the planetary version of raid.

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*facepalm* Killforcash. I should've clarified. Animals have a fight or flight response, and some animals obviously coexist peacefully with other animals, do they not? I was using the terms War and Peace, as a very general and broad term. Not a literal definition.

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When we find life it will be bacteria - not intelligent life, imo.

And as mentioned above, where does the bible state their is no life outside Earth?

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soasertsus, I DO think aliens exist. haha. I didn't understand exactly what Darth was pertaining to. Whether it was me, topic, above poster, or what.

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What do you think we would, or should do in the event of discovering alien life?

Here's an answer (if you "agree" with my earlier objective comment) then...

Send a message that they can decipher and essentially states;

By the time you receive this communication, we will already be on our way to your location.

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There is definately life off this planet. No doubt about it. The universe is just to big for us to be alone. The bad news? There is absolutely no way in hell that we'll be able to communicate with them, trade with them, or for us to even be able to tell they're alive.

You see, people who search for alian life all have an underlying bias. They all believe that this new life will be at least somewhat like us. Enough for us to learn their language, trade with them, all of that. Bulllcrap. Think about it. Every single living thing, from viruses to humans, all rely on DNA to survive. But why do we assume alien life will use this method? Everyone seems to think they'll be somewhat humanoid, or at least something we can understand (like giant insects or giant squids). But the fact is we more than likely can't imagine what they are. Sure, maybe some more outside the box people can imagine living crysals or something like that, but even that is horribly inside the box when you think more than likely this living being has evolved in completely different cirucumstances from us for just as long as we have. Everything on Earth started out as one base organism, and they probably did too. Maybe they even started out as the same organism. But then you throw in a few billions years or so of completely different circumstances of evolution, and there you go. Something we cannot, and will not ever understand.

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