Lula posts:
Because God is Love, He asks the freely given love of man and not a compelled love. Becasue God is Just, He will not deprive man of free will which is in accordance with his rational nature. Nor is this against the omnipotence of God for even His power does not extend to contradictory things.
K10w3 posts:
Becasue God is Just, He will not deprive man of free will which is in accordance with his rational nature.
Now we have problems communicating with each other again. There is no proof that "free will" exists. There is nothing rational about the concept of free will. The idea of free will presumes that beings are capable of making decisions that are contra-causal. We aren't supernatural--we are natural, part of nature and that means that we can only make choices and decisions based on our chemistry, our history, and our environment.
Even if, for the sake of argument, I grant that there is such a thing as free will, what sort of a loving God would force free will onto man that would result in the eternal torture of that man? What good is "freedom" if it results in suffering?
Re: the highlighted...
We know and prove the fact of free will by direct consciousness, just as we know our own identity. We are aware tgat we can freely guide our own thoughts, selecting if we choose the least attractive. We are aware that when 2 alternative courses of action lie before us we can freely deliberate upon their respective merits, reflecting, examinining and inquiring the reasons for each side. We are conscious that our final choice is free. We can buy a Toyota or a Ford car. We can choose vanilla or chocolate ice cream. We can take "X" street or "Y" street to get to a destination. We can tell the truth or tell a lie.
We are not only conscious before acting that there are various courses open to us, but we are conscious that we may desist from a course of action already adopted, and after acting, are conscious of self-approbation or self-reproach realizing that we were not compelled to act that way.
In short, our moral consciousness points to the freedom of will. We know by our inner voice of conscience that we are bound to do right and avoid doing wrong. We also know in the depths of our heart that we are absolutely free to avoid evil.
Admittedly, environment and heredity can weaken will power and that lunacy can deprive a person of self-control altogether. But these are not normal cases and Almighty God because He is Just will make every allowance as regards salvation.
He'll blame only those things for which they are actually responsible and in the degree. But the question of how everything will be adjusted does not affect the fact that the human will is normally and of its very nature endowed with freedom.
Even if, for the sake of argument, I grant that there is such a thing as free will, what sort of a loving God would force free will onto man that would result in the eternal torture of that man? What good is "freedom" if it results in suffering?
Before we get to free will, God, His laws and Justice, let us get to free will, man's laws and justice.
If a person is not free, he cannot be expected to keep laws, and should not be punished for breaking them. There can be no obligation to observe a law when it is not possible to keep it. The judicial and punitive application of human legislation, is outrageous if man is not responsibile for his conduct.
Denial of free will is as absurd as denial that man is a human being for intelligence and free will alone differentiate man from the beast. If you had not free will, you could not deny the God that made you.
Finally, justice demands that there be a God. The very sense of justice among men resulting in law courts, supposes a Just God. We didn't give ourselves our sense of justice. It comes from who made us and no one can give what he doesn't possess himself. Yet justice can't be done by man in this world. Here the good often suffer and the wicked prosper. And even though human justice doesn't always succeed in balancing the scales, they will be balanced by a Just God who most certainly exists.
And this is what it is really all about...the questions and debate of Origins...
If the cosmos, and all that's in it, including human life came into existence by chance and natural processes over eons of time, in other words, if Evolution is really true, then people are just animals and can make up their own rules about right and wrong just as animals do by instinct. We have no responsibility to God.
On the other hand, if Special Creation is really true, then we were made by God and becasue of that He gets to make the rules and laws (which He did). His standards decide right and wrong. We have great responsibility and the Just God will hold us accountable for what we did and what we didn't do and should have.
