Amen to that!

One of us doesn't know what DRM is highlander.

It's my understanding that Digital Rights Management is an access control technology, which has the purpose of of limiting usage of digital media.  If the only "legal" way of installing entrenchment is by logging in to the Impulse network, to authenticate yourself as an owner of the product then Entrenchment has DRM and that DRM is Impulse.

Here are some restrictions/limitations imposed on Entrenchment by the Impulse DRM:

• It restricts which platforms you can play the game on.  Sins of a Solar Empire and likely entrenchment will work on Ubuntu using a piece of software called Wine.  Using Wine to play games made for Windows on an Ubuntu computer is commonplace amoung GNU/Linux users.  Impulse is a complicated piece of software tied strongly to the Windows platform & as such does not work with Wine.  It is required in order to authenticate and then install Entrenchment.  Because of this Ubuntu users cannot legally install Entrenchment on there machines.  Even if you are the legal owner of Entrenchment, downloading an zip archived copy of Entrenchment or making one yourself would break the DMCA laws in the USA or EU Copyright Directive laws in Europe.  These laws forbid circumvention of copy-protection software.  This restriction can be compared to how Apple's iTunes DRM restricted users from copying itunes music files to other non-supported devices.  The iTunes users could get around this via various means but they would be breaking the law and inconvenienced.
• It restricts you from reselling the game in the future.  Unlike the original Sins of a Solar Empire, you cannot sell Entrenchment onto another person, without selling them your entire Impulse account.  It's probably against the Impulse EULA to sell your account, (because it's unlikely that you are actually the legal owner of that account) & you run the risk of transfering your personal information to the new owner of Entrenchment.
• Finally you cannot install Entrenchment when you do not have an Internet Connection or if the Impulse service becomes temporarily or permanently unavailable.  In order to control your access to Entrenchment (for it's installation), your computer needs to be connected to the Internet so the Starsock servers can say "hey: it's ok to let this guy install this: he has our permission".  If the Impulse servers go down for whatever reason (technical faults, the service is dropped by Stardock, or Stardock goes bust), then you will not be able to login & authenticate and subsequently you will not be able to [legally] install Entrenchment on new computers (or reformated computers).

To pre-empt some likely responses to my points:

• Re: Platform Restrictions: Ubuntu isn't an officially supported platform, but it works with sins and that's a fantastic thing.  How annoyed would you be if your Sony published DVD's didn't play on your Samsung DVD player?  How annoyed would you be if your mp3's created on your Apple Mac did not play on your HP ipaq.
• Re: Resale: People say selling games doesn't support the game industry.  You know what: selling your car doesn't support the car industry.  (except for spare parts: but with that analogy you could say that first hand expansion packs may be purchased by the owner of the second hand game).  I personally like to buy my games new to support game companies, but I like the option of selling them.  Impulse takes away that option.
• Re: Service Downtime: There are more people in the world that don't have reliable access to the Internet than do.  Stardock can go bust - they could make bad decisions just like many other big companies have.  You can't see the future of the company, you can only guess (Would you like it if your mp3's stopped working on new devices if the record label that made them went bust?).  The Impulse service could be taken down by Stardock.  Microsoft (MICROSOFT!!!!), took down there DRM music authentication servers; as did Yahoo!.  Two very massive companies.

Justifications aside for "why" the above restrictions are needed, to protect the software  from "Piracy" it doesn't change the fact that those restrictions are there in Entrenchment, but they were not there in Sins of a Solar Empire (the original), and the cause of those retrictions is Impulse.  Some people don't mind having these restrictions imposed on them, and that's fine by me.  I personally wont buy those deliberately crippled products.

-Kom

My only note is that most EULAs today expressly prohibit the resale of the game and only authorize the original purchaser to install the game....  Not that anyone reads EULAs or anything....

I personally like the way Impulse brings the gamer closer to the developer, but if you choose to wait for the CD release its up to you.  I have also heard it mentioned that if impulse was ever to "go under" that Stardock would release a downloadable update(s) at that time. 

Stop fretting so much and enjoy the game!

Your dumb, how is this DRM? you can put it on any computer you want by using impulse, thats like saying every game Steam Sells is DRM. DRM means you get a set amount of installs. Stop crying, fail less and pick it up if you want the game.

Hey EdWood110.  Thanks for the info, I didn't know about that.  I'll probably buy the 4 expansions on CD so long as they are packaged the same way as Sins: ie they only include a serial key for protection and nothing more.  I like to reward the game developers when they make a good game, and they don't screw you over.

D_Sage44: It's spelt You're dumb.

-Kom

Agreed.

Bad news then folks.  Software like Impulse has been so successful that most companys are considering some form of it for managing accounts and online content.  This trend started to seriously set in with the advent of MMORPG's and it is unlikely it is going to slow down now that it has momentum.

It bothered me for a while but now I just sort of accept it ... kind of like DX10+ you have to have it or something that can emulate it or you simply can't play certain games.  Not playing is always an option but the computer industry is banking (correctly) that as long as something like Impulse is not very restrictive you will be willing to use it.  

I wish I had waited considering its broke the game for everyone I know when it comes to MP :-/

So I took a look at Impulse's Product Activation FAQ and wanted to highlight for you a couple things:

Can I activate over the phone?

No. You must have internet access.

If your firewall is so locked down that the activation cannot reach the Internet, it'll offer to generate a code that you can email to Stardock to create a license file for that machine.

I want to sell my copy of X to my brother, because I don't need it anymore.

Reasonable requests can be handled through support.

I don't appreciate being treated like a crook and being forced to activate the product I paid for.

Activating is a very quick process and generally only involves entering your email and the serial number, then waiting a few seconds to update your product record.

If you have difficulties, please contact support@stardock.com.

http://www.impulsedriven.com/support/activation_info.aspx

Quit your bitch'n and play the game.  I don't understand why people get their panties in such a bind over a service like Impulse.  It's so non-intrusive and leanent with DRM it's just not funny.  Welcome to the future. If you don't like it, it's your loss.  No one else but you cares.

quoting post
This is a quick post, hopefully to be seen by the eyes of Stardock employees.  I wont buy Entrenchment if the only way I can install it is through Impulse.  Impulse is DRM.  It stops you from installing Impulse-only titles without logging onto the Impulse network.  It's my understanding that it's illegal to install SoaSO: Entrenchment any other way than via Impulse.

I buy games regularly, but I don't buy games that contain these restrictions.  Just as I purchased Sins, I will purchase Entrenchment if a digital download copy is made available without restrictions.

-Kom

Komodo- Am I to assume that Sins of a Solar Empire is the only game you've ever played in your entire life, ever? Given how pretty much every title made in the last twelve years plus has had some sort of CD-check (and I KNOW you didn't use a crack, since that violates your precious DMCA/EULA/w/e), I take it you've never played a game before in your life. In fact, a CD-key alone is a form of DRM. You know what? Here's something groundbreaking - EULAS ARE A FORM OF DRM.

Congratulations. I just come back from three weeks in Vegas and this is the FIRST thing I've read on the internet, and it's pretty much the to-date "Year's Dumbest Post". I can't tell if you're serious or not, and I only will assume you're serious because I've long since stopped being amazed at how jaw-droppingly stupid people are. I'm going to grit my teeth and try to stop my head from splitting down the middle as I attempt to... I don't even know. I've used the internet long enough to know that no matter what anyone says, no matter how crystal-clear the logic is, you'll still argue against it. There is no changing your mind. End of story. So why even bring up this topic? I know isotopes at the bottom of the periodic table that have lower densities than your skull. So whatever. If you're going to troll, I'll troll right back.

KOMODO: It restricts which platforms you can play the game on.

No, it doesn't. Impulse was not specially programmed to NOT run on Linux. It is not a developer's job to allow software to run on every platform, on every OS, on every possible configuration of obscure hardware. Otherwise I could bitch that Impulse won't run on my cell phone, or that I can't upload it to the AIU of an F-15. The problem is with Wine. Since you're nit-picking bullshit like the DMCA and fine-print, maybe you should read the WINE WEBPAGE:
1.8. What applications run well with Wine?

Thousands of applications work well. As a general rule, simpler or older applications tend to work well, and the latest versions of complex applications or games tend to not work well yet.

Therefore, using your moronic lapse in logic, every aforementioned program that 'tends to not work well' is DRM because clearly the programmers of such software are maliciously and deliberately trying to control marketshare by NOT exhaustively rewriting and debugging their software to cater to a minority market of worthless tools, most of whom only use Linux out of pure pretentiousness.

Now, funny we should bring this up.

SCHISM: To say i need any third party software to make use of a game i purchased is in every case nothing more than digital rights management.
 

Therefore, again, according to the stupid-speak being spewed around here, WINE itself is DRM, since you require that software to run Sins in the first place on a platform Stardock clearly intentionally tried to sabotauge, right? Also, on this note, Schism - Impulse is not third-party software. It's made by Stardock, the people who MADE THE F'ING GAME. It's FIRST-PARTY software you dimwit. And actually, I'm glad you brought this up. You see, Impulse is about as transparent as you will EVER see an updating service become. Again, I'm using what YOU SAID here: Any update that uses InstallShield or Wise to run the .exe is therefore DRM - because BOTH of those packagers are THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE. Impulse is first-party software, distributed by the people who made the game, that uses a completely internal and built-in method of installing patches, meaning it doesn't touch third-party ANYTHING whatsoever.

KOMODO: It restricts you from reselling the game in the future. -----  You know what: selling your car doesn't support the car industry.  (except for spare parts: but with that analogy you could say that first hand expansion packs may be purchased by the owner of the second hand game).

It is NOT the job of Hyundai to ensure that my car is going to be resellable - otherwise I could sue them because the car I bought for $18,000 I can strangely only sell for $4,000 now. This is not DRM. This is just lunacy. Inability to resell is 100% your problem. Impulse didn't 'take that away' any more than encoding models in their own proprietary format is 'taking away' your ability to rip them and appropriate them for your own purpose. It might ULTIMATELY be DRM in a roundabout way, but I also suggest you read the EULA you're so bent out of shape about violating - you can't resell your games period. I can't find a single game of mine that authorizes the user to transfer is lisence to someone else, because they all EXPLICITELY STATE that the parent company is who controls who gets the lisence - not you. This is why they ALL say something about how they can terminate your lisence at any time. They control it, and therefore you are unable to transfer it without their permission.

# It stops you from installing Impulse-only titles without logging onto the Impulse network. Re: Service Downtime: There are more people in the world that don't have reliable access to the Internet than do.  Stardock can go bust - they could make bad decisions just like many other big companies have.  You can't see the future of the company, you can only guess (Would you like it if your mp3's stopped working on new devices if the record label that made them went bust?).  The Impulse service could be taken down by Stardock.  Microsoft (MICROSOFT!!!!), took down there DRM music authentication servers; as did Yahoo!.  Two very massive companies.

Wow. I don't even know how to respond to this. Are you seriously calling Digital Distribution methods 'DRM' because if the internet goes out you can't download stuff?

Furthermore, it's an online store. It needs a way to say 'You bought the game, here. You did not, you don't get it.'.

What would you propose O Wise One? The Honor System? And maybe if your internet is having a maintenence outage for a few hours, the CEO will personally rush over to your house to install the game from a unique copy?

I'm wondering how many in-game accounts Komodo has in all the games he owns - stuff like Crysis Wars, or the soldier login on Battlefield games, etc. You know he's clearly never played on Battle.Net because you needed an account for that too - and Battle.Net was technically a "third party" hook built into the game.

 

Now, who wants to bet Komodo plays World of Warcraft, using a login system controlled by personal information, managed by third-party technology and external programs to download his updates? Of course, caught in such an obtuse web of hypocriticalism, he's going to lie / deny just about everything presented here against him re: account controls, personal gaming, third-party software installers, stuff that he called 'DRM' but everyone's used just fine...

A bit of support for _komoto:

Wow; what an emotionally charged issue.  But at least _komoto had the decency to present his take on the issue absent personal attacks and name calling.  As to the others who took umbridge with _komoto's opinion; it is fine to dissagree but I think it would be far more condusive to a public discourse if all parties dealt with each other in a civil, respectfull manner.  Just because the other person is not sitting in a chair three feet away from you does not mean you should dispense with being polite.

I would like to see the moderator remove vitrolic diabtribes and name-calling posts; even those supporting his opinion.

Incorrect! Stardock is forcing people to use Impulse to get their patches. I have been away from Sins and recently decided to reload it, only to discover that I have to install another piece of distribution software just to update my game. If you want digital downloads just give me a simple 'buy' link. Otherwise I will be avoiding Stardock. I put up with Steam because of all the free updates, patches and constantly changing content. If you want to do micro transactions, thats ok, but do not force me to use a service that does not provide me with these perks (like Steam does with all the free TF2 updates). I do not want to have Impulse, Steam, Games for Windows and whatever Blizzard decides to call it, running in the background on my PC.

Honestly, I did not get into Sins but still felt like supporting the developer.  I supported Stardock because a small publisher understood to just ignore piracy and make a great game for its customers. If you think Impulse is a good idea, let it stand on it's own. Don't sacrifice your existing client base.

Additional: I am a registered user, give me an option to patch my Sins game without having to install Impulse! When I purchased Sins, it did not say that I would have to install some distribution software in order to patch any overlooked bugs in the retail copy.

I actually feel dumb for responding to this post, because I know it won't make any difference.

But what the hell!

Komoto realized above that it will come out on both Impulse and later CD-ROM (or DVD-ROM, so don't split hairs with me), and then he decided all was well with the world. So why do we care again?