Let's end the fight. We are not WinCustomizers. We are not hardcore GalCiv2 gamers. We are all Stardockians.

And what's the point in arguing; none of us will get out alive from this madhouse anyway  

I don't think Jafo was calling PC games or anyone who plays them childish - given his 90+ personal collection - but rather to point out that Stardockians on the customization side of things could viwe gaming as pointless exercise, as Mumblefratz did when he personally said that saw no real value in skinning.  Again, it comes back to 'each to his/her own'... however, it is respecting one another's chosen hobbies/pastimes and not denigrating their choice[s].

I do enjoy playing the few games I do possess, but while I'm not an avid gamer and have no need to get the latest and greatest, I can understand/relate to those who do because I'm into customising my desktop and like to keep abreast of the latest and greatest apps to achieve what I like to do with it.

The first case implies that I believe skinning to be of no value, what I actually said was skinning has no real value *to me*. The first case is denigrating the artform the second case is merely stating a personal opinion.

Nor did I take Jafo's comments to be denigrating to "gamers". In the same light if someone does hold the view that games are senseless or childish I can't really argue against their opinion. Neither would it anger or bother me in any way.

As I've said a number of times I was merely honestly wondering what all the interest is about because in "real life" I've never met anyone that has ever even used the word "skinning".

If you go roller skating at the roller rink you probably think most everyone roller skates but in reality very few people do.

I repeat that I'm nor denigrating your artform but I am suggesting that if I say what's all this about skinning and someone replies "you can't be serious" my response is I most certainly am. The vanity comes into play in your assumptions that everyone both knows what this is and appreciates it. I suggest that 99% of all people don't even know about it so how can this be so universal an appeal.

By the way, other than Solitare, Minesweeper and whatever else comes with the OS these days, I own precisely 2 games and yes I agree they have no functional use.

Whatever.

Look you've grabbed onto a comment that I made almost in passing that has little real importance to me. If you wish and it makes you feel better then I'll concede that skinning is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

What I brought up that was of considerable more importance to me and something to which you at least acknowledged partial agreement, is the problem of the mixing of all of SD's sites and the implications that has on each individual site.

It's clear that the mixing is supported by the highest levels at Stardock and is that is not about to change. Fine.

But the two points I brought up about it seem reasonable to more than just myself. First and assumedly less controversial is just knowing the context of someone's interest by knowing where each reply in a shared forum comes from.

Secondly if were going to share forums then let's really share forums. Could someone possibly publish a site map indicating the different forums and on which sites they're accessible from?

Basically it should be clear to someone who their audience is. For example I had no clue the Impulse forum was a subforum of Stardock Support. To me it was just the forum that seemed to have so many threads that it blotted out the sun. But the Off Topic forum and it's Personal Computing forum isn't as widely accessible.

If I go into a McDonald's in Paris, I have a good idea what's on the menu even if they call French Fries, frites. The same with Stardock's sites. The menu should at least be consistent. If people are posting things that conceivably gets spread across all 19 of SD's site they should at least be aware of that fact and it shouldn't matter whether you're at galciv2, sins, Impulse, etc.

Still at it, I see.

I understand that you never said Jafo's comments were anything mate, those are my opnions based on his comments here and in other posts, it was just time to say it out in the open.

I'm not out to win points at all. Simply stating my thoughts and feelings. I did wait till i made my 2nd response...many hours in fact. What is it in my 2nd response that was bad? That i criticized a stardockian. Was my point incorrect? Maybe so, but it is my opinion that Jafo's comments, when you take into context the other threads i have observed this behaviour in, were un called for and outright silly.

And Silver...Kid...really? Talk to Seth like that mate if ya want......I don't need to be told to back off or quiet down. I have done that too much, i expressed my opnion in a non abusive manner without being anything but civil. It's as good as it's gonna get. I'm not being an ass to you mate, i understand you are just watching my back here but i felt i needed to express my feelings here.

Jafo..I did note the said paragraph with the 90+ games comment. But you yourself seemed to disregarde them for your own argument.

You did though make my original point for me Jafo. That this conversation should never be taking place. If the SD sites were never connected as they are, you would not need to bother with my poor english comprehension skills nor i with what i perceive as your condescending attitude toward the GC2 side of the fence.

Your comments made my point exactly, thankyou. The difference between the gamers and skinners is a wide enough void that the two parties will never get along. This thread is an example of that. You took to the defensive very quickly Jafo over what was a personal opinion and, be it tounge in cheek or not, attacked the gamers straight off the bat. If your reactions are like these, what are we to expect the greater wincustomize communities reaction to be? Fair enough, the flip side is i was quick to defend the gaming side of the coin which only proves my point further.

As i have maintained, it would have been far better for each respective community to be it's own forum.

Yeah...very poorly.

I hate that spellcheck, edit and the quote feature still don't seem to be working properly.

I'd imagine that's more just because the sharing of categories is not as obvious on their side of the fence, since this one (for example) has been there for a very long time. So they generally expect that people posting here will be doing it there or on JU, where they'll already be familiar with the subject.

It stands to reason that people will be defensive of their preferred hobbies over others, but I think in time everyone can get past it and get along with each other, once the category-sharing becomes more widely-known.

Granted some people may feel that one or the other is more important than the other--tastes and reasons vary widely, of course--but for the great majority of people, there's no reason they have to be mutually exclusive. For example, I'm not deep into the skinning stuff myself, but I do use Windowblinds, IconPackager, and ObjectDock. In the case of WB, it's just a matter of making windows more palatable aesthecally; I hate Luna, and would rather use the classic 9x appearance than it (given a machine where WB isn't an option, I do just that), but I find it a lot more pleasant to use a simple and clean WB theme. Likewise for the icons, and in that case it's a fire-and-forget customization, so it uses no more resources than the defaults. ObjectDock, on the other hand, I use solely for the usability improvement (just mouse over to monitor #2 and one click to open any of my most-used programs).

Not at all. I probably digressed more than necessary, but suffice to say, they're some of our customization software--but you probably gathered that much. I imagine the specifics of what they do are really moot here.

My point is simply that everyone's got a reason for what they choose to do, and none in any way invalidate any one else's reasons--it's all personal choice and taste. All that I ask here is that we acknoweldge that. Prefer a lean and clean system? Perfectly good choice. Prefer to exercise dominion over your machine through aesthetics? Also valid. Your "I personally don't understand why one would want to do that" is perfectly fine. Just try not to take it personally when people take that as a question, and try to explain why. Likewise, there's no reason that those who like skinning a lot should take that as a challenge or an insult.

This is just as true for both sides, so don't think I'm singling you or anyone out here. We can all get along if we want to.

Why gamer say skin is bad? Make skiinner feel sad.

OK, don't feel bad. Skin is good. Happy. Happy.

Skinning? Why that's what you do to that twelve point buck you just dragged out of the woods.