Vamphaery

Join Date 01/2007

I'm not one who believes PC gaming is dying...HOWEVER...

If it does happen, who is to blame?

After my recent experiences with EA published games containing SecuROM and several conversations with friends, I have come to a conclusion (at least for me personally.)

For the longest time I have denied that PC gaming is dying. I refuse to believe it. I still believe than ten years from now PC gaming will still be going strong. That said, I'm also a multiplatform gamer. I don't discriminate. I go by the games. If a platform offers a game I know for certain that I want to play, then that's a platform I'm going to want to be playing on.

So when PC ports of console games I know I want to play (but haven't yet) are released with ostensible improvements, optimizations, or new content, I tend to grab the PC version. Yet, if said PC version is riddled with what essentially amounts to a limited form of spyware such that it cannot function properly without disabling or uninstalling certain elements of my system, I tend to take a moment to stop and think... why am I playing this?

Alright, so the interface might not be quite what I'd like and there are a few minor issues, but at least in the console version - provided they are similar or identical in terms of actual content - I know that the game will work. I put the disk in, and it works. Period.

So where am I going with this? Well, I still deny that PC gaming is dying. However, hypothetically speaking, let's say that the lack of parity between profitability on PC and profitability on consoles becomes so poor that developers are forced to develop exclusively or predominantly for consoles. Let's say that one reason for that is that people simply don't wish to bother with potential antipiracy pitfalls after shelling out money for a product they simply want to play. If that were to happen... could we really blame anyone but the developers and publishers? If I have to buy the Xbox 360 version of Mass Effect, for instance, in order for it to play because I don't feel I should have to uninstall Clone Drive or disable my antivirus software, then why shouldn't I? That isn't what happened in my case, but I've seen others with that issue in that game and in many others.

All too often I see people saying that it’s the customer's fault, essentially, for not being tech savvy enough or patient enough to solve their problems. You and I may know how to maintain our systems properly and optimize for game-specific conditions, and that's all well and good for me... but what about total neophyte computer noobs who just want to play a game? Should the learning curve be so high that they're excluded, just because developers or publishers (or both) want to protect themselves from pirates who are meanwhile already playing cracked versions of their software while paying customers are stuck with the bill and an unplayable game? How is that the customer's fault?

I don't think PC gaming is dying. However, if it does die, I say we should know where to point the finger...

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regardless of your opinions on piracy the fact that it alone is cracking these DRM schemes along with the above post should tell you a lot about where the industry should be going

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Well look at Stardock they're last games have been amazingly easy to install, hell I'll even admit that the first time I played sins it was with a cracked copy (if you can call passing the CD around cracked) But then I'm like I want to play on line! which means buying the game (which I did) Stardock is a company which, I believe, is adapting to new trends and so are making it much easier to crack their products but at the same time if you want to do anything besides play by yourself or with buddies you have to buy it (that and updates). Also, this essentially provides a form of free advertising.

This is why I believe companies like Stardock and Valve are the wave of PC gaming future. And for that I thank them.

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Sadly true. I really want to play mass effect, for example, but am put off by all the baggage the PC version comes with. Unfortunately I don't own a 360 (I foolishly chose a Wii, only to find that a year and a half later it STILL has a hopeless selection of games) so that means I have to decide just how much I want to play the game. Atm I've decided it isn't worth it. I'll no doubt have another hard decision when Spore is released, and am cursing EA for ruining so many great games with their DRM.

I just trust that companies who don't include DRM like stardock start to gain market share over those who do, and force the industry to adapt. It will probably take a few years, but hopefully it will happen and only a few great games will be affected.

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Well look at Stardock they're last games have been amazingly easy to install, hell I'll even admit that the first time I played sins it was with a cracked copy (if you can call passing the CD around cracked) But then I'm like I want to play on line! which means buying the game (which I did) Stardock is a company which, I believe, is adapting to new trends and so are making it much easier to crack their products but at the same time if you want to do anything besides play by yourself or with buddies you have to buy it (that and updates). Also, this essentially provides a form of free advertising.This is why I believe companies like Stardock and Valve are the wave of PC gaming future. And for that I thank them.

Same here...

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You know what the Anti Pirate protection was for Master of Orion? you got a book that came with the game display a picture of a ship and a name for each ship. When you got so many turns into the game it Asked you to turn to page X and identify the Displayed ship. if you couldn;t do that it closed your game for you. We've come a long way since then, but now we are starting to go too far in the other direction. Anti Pirate software only keeps people at bay for a limited time as it cannot be a dynamic system. The only people it pisses off are buyers of said product.

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PC gaming itself won't die, worse case scenario it goes to the wayside like tabletop war gaming went. As for "anti pirate software" I've got mixed feelings on that. Its ok to protect your interests but its not ok to hamper everyday use. I recall copy protection schemes even back in the 80's, EA used them then too. This isn't something new the trouble has been in the past that engineers have to plan for every possible hack and hackers only need to find 1 way to make it work, there are some new ways they can deal with it, one I've really liked particularly is online activation for additional content. You simply have to register to use additional content, not only does it "give away" for doing something that is otherwise optional, but it gives you something for your troubles. Its not to say its foolproof, but its that your getting something for your troubles if and when you have them, keeping the buyer happy and the seller in business.

Lets face it, if it gets to the point where commercial gaming is no longer an option on non-console.. we might just have to play all these wonderful free ware games located all over the web, you won't get top quality graphics, but most of the game play is still good. Examples are abound, but to list a few of my favorites (Google these if your curious); Battle for Wesnoth, X-Force: Fight For Destiny, Mythos (currently down..maybe for good), and Ogame. Personally I tend to think that graphics are extremely overrated, more so when its all graphics and the game play is WORSE than Pong. (For those not old enough to get it.... Pong is basically ping pong on a 2-d surface, you bounce the ball back and forth between paddles... which the players control and.. yes, people did play this...together.)

As for the Wii's game selections.... what happened is half the developers in the world got caught with their pants down on the Wii's explosive popularity. The games that have been released usually end up poorly done because they weren't designed with the Wii in mind because well, Nintendo didn't give much warning to the rest of the world which left developers scrambling. Given the time... good developers will get something made, assuming they don't think the Wii is a dead system from the get go like certain joke developers.

I love gaming in general, great for relaxing, I don't think it will die, but it could seriously lose mainstream interest, especially with publishers continuing to demanding 50 dollars for 20 hours of (albeit lucky or highly skilled player)game play. thanks Mass Effect!

To be fair in Mass Effects case, its a wonderful game, I just really felt screwed when I completed it within a week. :/

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It just really upsets me that I may have to wait a hardware generation or two for developers to get it into their heads to put out more than 4x and RTS games that don't come with antipiracy solutions that cripple my enjoyment of them. Don't get me wrong. I love 4x and RTS games as much as the next guy; possibly even more. I love my RPGs even more, though.

What's the last deep RPG that didn't come with that kind of protection? Oblivion? I loved Oblivion but I've done everything in it. Even The Witcher had TAGES.

The mainstays on my gaming list are large, open-ended RPGs (read: Bethesda), Bioware-style RPGs (read: Bioware, Obsidian), sandbox games (read: GTA), first person shooters, 4x strategy games, and RTS games, with the occasional space combat sim thrown in for good measure. EA owns seemingly everyone now. The only one of those that I seem likely to play anytime soon without SecuROM or something like it installing on my system is the first category: large, open-ended RPGs (read: Fallout 3) but even that isn't a given.

What's a gamer to do?

So I'm forced to play those kinds of games on consoles, and play strategy games on PC. Oh well. At least it detracts from the need to upgrade my PC!

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If you don't think its dying compare SHELF space at a gaming store. 5+ shelves for every console and barely 1 for PC.

I never would have believed it, but its the way of EB/Gamestop

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Speaking of which...

...boutiques are another trend that really bothers me. What happened to large, full service STORES? Is a tiny 15 x 15 foot room with one wall or one shelf for each platform really all the industry can offer me as a customer? Maybe they expect everyone to shop online. I don't know. If games are as popular as they appear to be, why aren't there any major retailers with large floor spaces?

Then again, that may be more a sign of the economy than the status of the industry. Toy stores are all dying too. FAO Schwartz, Toys'R'Us, Toy Village, etc. have all closed here.

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goodgimp

Join Date 12/2003

+21

With the prevalence of broadband, PC gaming is rapidly shifting to digital distribution rather than brick and mortar stores. It makes sense, getting good shelf space at the B&M stores can be very costly.

Even NDP, the people whose statistics people quote as 'proof' PC gaming is dying, is on record as saying the PC games industry is very healthy. The problem is that it's shifted far towards digital distribution, and they are not currently able to track those sales.

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goodgimp

Join Date 12/2003

+21

Speaking of which......boutiques are another trend that really bothers me. What happened to large, full service STORES? Is a tiny 15 x 15 foot room with one wall or one shelf for each platform really all the industry can offer me as a customer? Maybe they expect everyone to shop online. I don't know. If games are as popular as they appear to be, why aren't there any major retailers with large floor spaces?Then again, that may be more a sign of the economy than the status of the industry. Toy stores are all dying too. FAO Schwartz, Toys'R'Us, Toy Village, etc. have all closed here.

My local best buy always has tons of shelf space for games, even PC.

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If PC gaming ever does 'die' and all that's left are console games... guess where all the pirates will concentrate their efforts on? Yep... before you know it there will be a budding console pirate market. Lets face it. Hackers have the rep they have for a very good reason. They can hack ANYTHING. So it's pretty much useless to even try and protect your software because given enough time and effort, anything can be hacked.

That's just the way it is.

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One of the big advantages that console gaming has over PC gaming is simplicity. All you need to do in order to play a console game is to insert a disk into it. No computer knowledge is required.

In contrast, to play a PC game you have to install the game and hope that it installs properly. Also, if you're playing on a store-bought PC and you're hardware illiterate, then you'll probably have to go out and buy a video card. But wait! Even popping in the video card and downloading and installing the latest drivers might not be enough. Now you might need to go buy a new power supply since the POS power supply that came with your store-bought computer probably can't handle the video card you just installed.

It isn't a problem for me since I'm computer literate and built my own rig, but I can definitely understand why non-computer geeks would prefer to play on consoles. My younger coworkers who game own computers but they just use them for Internet surfing. The notion of playing games on their computers doesn't occur to them; it's almost inconceivable to them unless I bring it up.

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The PC platform has been declared dead or has been accused of slowly dying for the past 10 years now. Don't believe the hype, go with what your senses tell you.

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Exactly this happened to PSP/Ninto DS (Custom Firmware used with Pandora Battery for PSP and the chips R4/M3, they are identical, for the NDS). Why do they hack PC? Because many games come out/are ported on to the PC. Why do they hack handhelds? Because the games were released only for them.
By the way, I heard there were some modchips for the PS3 and Xbox360, but I didn't find any information what you could do with them.

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The PC platform has been declared dead or has been accused of slowly dying for the past 10 years now. Don't believe the hype, go with what your senses tell you.

Sometimes I have the feel that this "PC GAMING IS DIEING" campaign was started by Sony and/or other console publishers.

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I am a Multi-Platform Gamer. I own a 360, Wii, and a highly customized XPS 630 (no stock anything in the case at this point other than the processors and MB). Hands down, I prefer gaming on the PC for RTS. ANYTHING ELSE, 360 all the way. No patches or updates to find (delivered automatically), no configuration, no graphics options to mess with, no stupid AP software, and ZERO tech issues.
I still own and love my Starcraft and Brood War disks, I pine for the days of Homeworld and Homeworld 2 (actually why I bought this piece of poop SOASE). I don't think PC gaming is dying so much as just getting run over by the consoles. When Supreme Commander get's great reviews and sees good sales on consoles, you know the world has changed! Heck, Civilization on the 360 is actually MORE FUN than the PC version!
The Devs need to take a long hard look at the world of games, and instead of trying to cross-develop titles for everything, they need to start developing truly killer apps for the PC. I HOPED SOASE would be such a killer apps, but sadly, it just isn't. It feels like a Frankenstein of former glorious games, and it just misses something without a campaign. yes, I get it, the sandbox thing is all the craze (thanks GTA), but you can have a sandbox game and still provide a campaign. In other games they are called skirmishes!

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I'm a PC player for years..but if PC's don't retain some exculsives all we will be playing is ports. Even with improved graphics, we will have to wait till the mighty port gods decide to uh...port.
Plus if you look there's more GAMES alvailable to consoles. Nvidia and AMI should have their own development teams, if they plan on selling anymore hardware. If any console comes out with a keyboard and mouse = PC dead.

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Speaking of which......boutiques are another trend that really bothers me. What happened to large, full service STORES? Is a tiny 15 x 15 foot room with one wall or one shelf for each platform really all the industry can offer me as a customer? Maybe they expect everyone to shop online. I don't know. If games are as popular as they appear to be, why aren't there any major retailers with large floor spaces?Then again, that may be more a sign of the economy than the status of the industry. Toy stores are all dying too. FAO Schwartz, Toys'R'Us, Toy Village, etc. have all closed here.My local best buy always has tons of shelf space for games, even PC.

It could just be where I live. We don't have ANYTHING here. You have to drive out of town for even something simple like Walmart or Target! All we have are an insane number of Safeways and Wallgreens, and some really expensive specialty stores. We do have a best buy, but it too is of the boutique variety. We joke around by calling it "Bext By Ex" lol.

Back on the topic of PC gaming's "crisis" (me being ironic there) I would have to agree that the PC needs more exclusive titles. Reading the dev post entitled "PC Gaming & Piracy" really made me think about the concept of developing in a way that caters to your prospective customers and not to the lowest common denominator. It made me ask myself: how cool would it be if developers did on the PC what they already do on consoles, which is to look at the platform's inherent advantages and disadvantages, and make something that exploits or gets around those to the fullest - ports to other platforms be damned.

Imagine PC games that truly took advantage of the hardware (truly multithreaded games, taking proper advantage of PhysX and the like, more innovative hybrid offline and online play, etc.), without ever having to consider console ports. Console developers already do this and treat PC ports often as afterthoughts. Why can't PC developers play to that platform's strengths more?

There has GOT to be a market for great games that can't be run on anything but a PC, just as there are some games that wouldn't transition well to PC from consoles.

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Part of the problem is the PHENOMENAL amount of money that the big console companies like Micro$oft and $ony can lay down for the projects. No wonder all the developers are bending over backwards to support them, they are getting payed millions to do it. Look at Bioware, one of the best developers out there and the last game they did realeased was exclusive on the X-box and then ported over to PC.

It's all about the money now. And that's a shame, but true.

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People still think games are games but that is not the case, movies are not just moives, there is the big budget hollywood stuff with big explosions and the same plot as the last 47 films. Then there is the low budget crap movies about storys and real emotions. I really hate those. Fortunatly the mid budget pc games are awesome niche market stuff that really sofisticated (points for irony!) hardcore fans are into.

If all you want to do is play Gears of War then why do you even have a PC? If you however want to play an obscure management hybrid game no console player has ever heard of AND play gears of war, then you need a PC.

Business wise if I was going to make a high budget first/third person action game with unrealistic simulation, bad mechancis and a focus of graphics and general presentation rather than gameplay and thinking. I would go striagth to console (Xbox360 even) then port to PS2 and PC and make a rubbish version for the Wii and a even worse version for the portables. (Unfortunatly I'll never get a chance to design/make any games the way I want to see them).

Simply put, PCs are perfect for large possibility-space games, consoles are not.
(Remember its not the hardware that makes it diffrent its the people who represent the market.)

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Computer anti-piracy is just another annoyance. But the reason I play computer games and not xbox or playstation, or the (I don't understand why its so popular) WII. Is simple ecconomics. A playstation game new is £35-40 ($70-80), a new xbox game is about the same. A new pc game is £20-30. In two years time the Pc game will be £5-10 and the Playstation game WILL STILL BE 30 POUNDS! Thus PC gaming, espeically budget gaming will always get my money, over a similar quality console game. Which is why I like buying over the net because I can pay $30 instead of £30(impulse rocks)!!!!

Of course the PC costs slightly more but its easier to fix (usually), can be upgraded and I can use it for my universtiy work (whoever heard of a PS running Genestat or excel for that matter). And the controls are so much easier, Its got a keyboard and mouse for crying out loud. That means I don't have to fiddle about with awful Wii motes (last time I used one I ended up stubbing my toe and falling over the sette-don't ask) or those (classic) gamepads which after 30 minutes make my hands hurt and my fingers feel stiff.

As for anti-pirating spyware, just don't buy from companies that use them heavily. I Haven't bought a EA game since The sims (which i didn't like and gave to my sister). As long as the market pours its hard earned lessuire money into gaming companies that don't use spyware then hopefully EA will change there ways or run out of capital and go back to making awful console sports game.

Any way I am comfident that in ten years time when we have the PS 7, and the Xbox full circle and the Pii(or whatever other stupid name Nintendo can come up with) there will still be a good old reliable PC.... well as long as we don't all end up killing each other : )

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^... which is less guaranteed with the news lately

(Not to be off topic. Just woke up to see it and it was a bummer.)

Back on topic, though: the other thing I love about the PC is that if you study companies' roadmaps, you can get a good idea of what the standard will be for the next few years, and with the right upgrades, can avoid building a whole new system except every few hardware generations. I'm still using my Pentium 4 C system with an AGP slot, and it plays everything I don't play on my console instead and still runs my DAW software admirably.

I probably won't build a new one until Nehalem hits. I was able to totally skip socket 775 and AMD/AMD+ and still get by. It makes sense too, since not many games are truly optimized for multicore yet. They probably will be by the time Nehalem matures though.

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That's the exactly same reason why I play only on PC and I have got a NDS/PSP, too.

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My PS3 is pretty much just a glorified paperweight at this point. Tried playing GTAIV for two weeks and the only conclusion I came away with is that console gamers must have really low standards of fun. Haven't written the possibility off though, I might try Soul Caliber, I mean the idea of just sitting back on the couch in a stoned stupor with a game controller does sound appealing. Loved Sins, but the games run too long already on medium difficulty, and so I was afraid to crank it up to high difficulty and got bored--I asked really nice if the developers would make some faster random maps but that does not seem to be where their interest lies. So I'm back to PvP'ing in World or Warcraft which, for now, I think is the best game out there, still after 4 years, and the only thing slowing it down is the stupid PvE (except raids, which are challenging and require strategy but are just not my thing). OMG we have Demigod beta right around the corner (already preordered), Starcraft 2 coming up, Diablo 3 in the wings, and I have high hopes for the new Dawn of War--and people are saying PC gaming is dead? Well anyway your tastes may be different than mine but as long as we have PC developers turning out great stuff and people playing... well then, it may be small, which is fine, but is alive and well.

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