NOW we can upload UNFINISHED WORK for approval ??????

Murex

Join Date 08/2002

+137

NOW we can upload UNFINISHED WORK for approval ??????

I sure would like to know what guide lines moderators use to accept DXthemes. When I make a theme I try to upload a working theme. And to me a working theme is one that requires very little modification by the user to have a working desktop. I go to the trouble to name all objects so if the user ever has to find it in the objects list they can find it easily. I list all the most popular programs in the menus. If it's a text list I always put some text on the menu so the user can just clone the text and choose the program .exe and chance the name to the desired program. I include DXplayer, meters. time, weather and calendar. The themes usually received a rating of 2 .5 from the mods. a couple received a rating of 3. Well I accept the rating mainly because there is nothing I can do about it. Here lately it seems skinners are doing less and less all the time and still receiving 2.5 to 3 rating. But today I saw a DXtheme that was approved with a rating of 3 and all the skin had was task bar, system tray, clock and a few lines of text. And most of them didn't even bring up any programs. Oh it also had a couple of blank menus. Even the author of the skin stated it was an unfinished skin and wanted people to tell him if it was worth finishing and even listed 2 know problems with it. And the text is in a different language which is ok except there isn't any tool tips to let you know what will happen when clicking on the object. So you have to click on it to see what it does.... BIG surprise it shuts the computer down.

Are we now able to upload unfinished work and ask the users. Do you like my work, should I finish it..

It is not fair to the customers of Wincustomize to approve unfinished work to be downloaded.

So I ask you JUST WHAT do you use as a guide line when you approve a skin. I really would like to know because I have spent the last 3 years trying to figure it out.

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ZubaZ

Join Date 11/2001

+908

I'll tell you what *I* think. I think a WIP sub-category would be a good idea for every gallery. I'd not show it on the main gallery, it would have to be selected. And if I were the moderator for that WIP gallery and I *had* to rate it, I'd give everything a 5 (average) rating.

I'm one of the non-skinning mods (there may be others, I'm not sure) so I try to stick to the "functional" galleries; DX, OB, gadgets. I find that MY artistic sense plays too much a part of my ratings. I too start on an 5 scale and go up or down. I get irritated during the Olympics when I see all the 9.85s and stuff. The bar has been raised. It's OK to be good AND average. That means the AVERAGE of skins are good. Congratulations skinners! If you want to be more than good . . it's going to take work. More work than before. And people are going to copy your work . . and even if their work is just as good . . it came later and is derivative and SHOULD get a lower rating.

-sigh-

I don't know the answer here. I do know that I don't want the skinners, artists, or community to be unhappy. Skin for the skin of it.

Here's what *I* would do for now. I'd start a thread called "{AppName} Works in progress" (i.e. "DX Themes Works in Progress") and then Id submit my WIP to my personal gallery. I'd post a reply to my latest WIP and let folks know to come to my personal gallery and knock themselves out. You could even state what kind of feedback you want or don't want.

Zubaz puts on his DEVO hat and WIPs it good

Zubaz further thinks we need a DEVO inspired skin

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PoSmedley

Join Date 04/2005

+788

And people are going to copy your work . . and even if their work is just as good . . it came later and is derivative and SHOULD get a lower rating.

Forgive the extremity of the comparison...but based on this, if you had to put Monet's Water Lilies next to Matisse's Water Lilies, would you rate one below the other because of the order in which they were produced, claiming one was a copy of the other?

The comparisons could go on and on. It still sounds discouraging and not so hopeful...IMHO. I thought that Journeymen were the only ones who got an automatic rating from the gate.

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Zubaz further thinks we need a DEVO inspired skin

I'll just time warp back to the 80's and see what I can come up with.

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PoSmedley

Join Date 04/2005

+788

Here's what *I* would do for now. I'd start a thread called "{AppName} Works in progress" (i.e. "DX Themes Works in Progress") and then Id submit my WIP to my personal gallery. I'd post a reply to my latest WIP and let folks know to come to my personal gallery and knock themselves out. You could even state what kind of feedback you want or don't want.

That would be a good temporary fix, but I think an actual gallery would go further in showing WC's continued commitment to the subscribers and artists, noob to Master, and be more beneficial and require less jumping and navigating around, which was an issue brought up by mods in my other thread.

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f you had to put Monet's Water Lilies next to Matisse's Water Lilies, would you rate one below the other because of the order in which they were produced, claiming one was a copy of the other?

They'd both only get 2 stars, I hate water lilies

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ZubaZ

Join Date 11/2001

+908

I thought that Journeymen were the only ones who got an automatic rating from the gate.

One has to start somewhere to rate anything. There has to be some comparison. "this is better than that because X"

Each moderator has their own criteria is self consistant and is consistan in the galleries they moderate. Don't you think that "average" is a good starting point? And working up and down from there makes sense? Shouldn't new, innovative work get a higher rating than derivitive work?

Trying to define *MY* average is what keeps me from rating much at all.

I think that over time the moderators make good choices in moderation.

And to get back near topic:
I think that uploading unfinished work is a a good thing. I think the authors should say it's an unfinished work in progress. I think they could use the idea proposed above or use the screenshot gallery. I think a WIP sub-gallery would be a good idea.

I think I'll go have a single-malt scotch.

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ZubaZ

Join Date 11/2001

+908

The MacAllan 18. Yummy.

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I should never have used the word RATE. That seems to be the only part of my post that every one zeros in on. I should have just said why would any one approve an unfinished theme for users to download. Even though it is free of what use is it to any one? People don't come to wincustomize to download something that they would have to finish up. Lets face it if they wanted to make a skin they would start from scratch and make it look the way they wanted. To be able to use said theme a person would have to make their own text set the program .exe make their own objects such as menus, meters, calendar and other necessary objects to make a working theme or hunt all over wincustomize for the objects to make a working theme.

Is this what the users of stardock programs have to look forward to. Come and get them while there hot a collection of almost themes. Ready for you to make your very own mix and match DXtheme.

Shouldn't new, innovative work get a higher rating than derivitive work?

YES YES YES. .But an almost theme shouldn't receive an average rating either. Even a wallpaper that doesn't meet standards doesn't make it to the downloads.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1574

I should have just said why would any one approve an unfinished theme for users to download. Even though it is free of what use is it to any one?

The definition of 'unfinished' differs with each person/uploader.

I once upped a pencil drawing to Devart...done about 30 years ago....and one comment was 'it's unfinished...might be OK when it is'.

Who the hell has the right to tell me my work is unfinished? If my style of drawing is to provide focus....aka concentrated detail while just hinting at the rest, well, tough titties for said critic. I'm not about to change my style, not after 30 years....

DX Themes are just like Litestep themes...they 'can' have every bell and whistle under the sun...or they can be simplistic/minimalist....

....whether a person chooses to DL one or the other is purely down to personal choice.

On the other hand, for WIPs....a WIP Section would be handy.....and something to push on the site coders/designers....as it [the WIP section] would be a boon to up-and-coming skinners...and vets alike...

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And what about the user that downloads the unfinished skin. Is it fair to them to download something that might cause problems. Users shouldn't have to deal with that. I know they are getting it for free. But the user should still be able to download a good useable skin.

Hear, hear!
Seems to me a WIP section is in order. As a consumer, and not a creator, I see an item that interests me, I decide if I wish to put it on my system, if so, I hope/expect said item to not glitch anything or cause undue crumbling in my already fragile setup. I like to try out a lot of new, sometimes innovative, ways of skinning the GUI. Some work for me. Some don't. Some work fine in certain areas, for me, others need tailoring to my needs and uses. I love it when I dl a theme/skin/mod and it blows my sox off with ways of doing things I hadn't thought about. But...
If I see a piece of work displayed in a gallery, CXP, IP, WB5, DX, I hope/expect it to be state-of-the-art and above all finished. Is "finished" subjective? My def. of "finished" and someone else's different? How about "mechanically sound" and in good working order. Hey, I open an .ini file or some sort of VB and it scares me as much as a reg key! C+ ? I'm outta there! I just want it all to tick over smoothly from the git. I look at a rating as an indication of functionality and completeness. If a project isn't ready to market, has weak, incomplete or nonexistant coding, copies (plagiarizes) someone else's hard work without permission and credit, put it in the WIP section or on a home page. Maybe a section: "Shop Talk". Then we can go see it, dl it if we wish and run it around the track if it's "released". As a final two cents, maybe dispense with rating at that level, so as not to mislead us grazers and harvesters. Thanks for listening. Great thread.

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Join Date 03/2001

+23

WIP would be very nice indeed. I'm making such a complex object that I really need testers in order to ensure it works correctly.

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i agree with a Work in progress section that sound really good for every body beginner or not.

@ Jafo

i like the manipulation you have done. (now i'm gonna to divorce i can fav this kind of pictures

)

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Same with walls, boots. How many houses on the prairie do you rate high? How many squirlies do you rate high? How many clouds over green grass do you rate high? Seen one ya almost seen them all. If they are unique, I rate them higher and feature them. If they are the same old same, well.....

A most troubling and silly statement in my opinion. The subject matter should not dictate the rating, but rather the quality of the presentation and work. Seen one nude, seen em all...No need to see a Michelangelo if you've seen Playboy......give me a break....Removes a great percentage of the worlds best graphic work because the subject has been done many times before. A quality piece of work should not be downgraded because a particular mod or any other person rating the piece is tired of the subject matter and does not find it unique any more than a poor piece of work should be elevated because a mod/rater likes the subject matter. Seen one ship painting, seen em all.....is simply not true.

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PoSmedley

Join Date 04/2005

+788

I should never have used the word RATE. That seems to be the only part of my post that every one zeros in on.

Sorry. I wasn't trying to distract from your point. Though, if it had received a low enough rating or not been rated, iy would have been sent to the author's personal gallery, where as something 'unfinished' it should have gone...IMHO. I don't know how you can rate something not finished or incomplete.

A quality piece of work should not be downgraded because a particular mod or any other person rating the piece is tired of the subject matter and does not find it unique any more than a poor piece of work should be elevated because a mod/rater likes the subject matter.

What he said.

I don't know how well the 'unique' factor works in rating something. It seems to go both ways. I have seen things that were quite unique and done well that wererated rather low as well as the opposite. I would go back to what I said in post #21..

But it's a little discouraging when you see a mod saying things like 'you seen one you seen 'em all' followed by another about how a majority of the work may be rated from the get go.

I realize the mods are 'volunteers' and the submissions just keep coming in a steady flood..and forgive me for not knowing how else to say it...but it sounds like your 'burnt out' and it is discouraging. At the least, it doesn't sound hopeful for noobs or someone who thinks they have found a better way to present 'clouds over grassy fields'.......'Periods' coma and go, like impressionists (water lilies, etc), or styles, etc., etc., and 'clouds over grassy fields'. Some are unique, some are not. Some are done better and some done even better. It's discouraging, to even imagine, that a mod might roll their eyes at one such work (be it wall, boot, DXTheme, or whatever) and give it an automatic rating of 4 or 5 just because they are tired of seeing the same old thing.

This is all my humble opinion. I'm really not trying to offend anyone.

One has to start somewhere to rate anything.

I agree. But from what I'm reading here...again, IMHO...it needs to be an open mind and not an average.

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The definition of 'unfinished' differs with each person/uploader.

I used the word "unfinished" because even the author of the skin said he was still working on it. This is what he had to say.

("Hi, this is my first desktop theme and my first time in this world of "customizers". I'm still working in this theme but i wanted to upload it for u and know your opinion and if it will be worth i effort to make better this desktopx theme.) ("Some troubles:
- When u return from a game in full screen, objects move of their original site...for the momment, just reload the theme.
- Taskbar and traybar icons have a few transparence(50%) because of the image i used(with transparent).

I know i have much to work and i will apreciate your suggestions and/or critiques, and if u know how to solve that 2 problems i mentioned previously.")

A wallpaper is not the same as a DXtheme it does not interact with ones computer it doesn't turn off your computer when you click on something. If a theme is acceptable in any state of completion because it is up to the user to determine whether it finished or not. Then all walls ,logons,WB, and every other skin should be put up for download and let the user decided whether it usable or not

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Then I guess you know how the people feel when their work is turned turned down because it isn't good enough. Only at wincustomize they say your work didn't meet our guidlines.

....whether a person chooses to DL one or the other is purely down to personal choice.

But that person has a right to know what they are downloading.

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PoSmedley

Join Date 04/2005

+788

A wallpaper is not the same as a DXtheme it does not interact with ones computer it doesn't turn off your computer when you click on something. If a theme is acceptable in any state of completion because it is up to the user to determine whether it finished or not. Then all walls ,logons,WB, and every other skin should be put up for download and let the user decided whether it usable or not

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Sorry. I wasn't trying to distract from your point.

No problem Po. I didn't think you were.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1574

Then I guess you know how the people feel when their work is turned turned down because it isn't good enough.

Its being 'unfinished' [perceived lack of completion] is not a specific criteria for rejection, and is not the same as 'isn't good enough' [your words].

Skin uploads are rejected for three reasons....copyright/ripping, racist imagery/pornography, and/or systemic endangerment. [BTW...this is quite infrequent].

Rarely does a simply - claimed 'lack of completion' flag any of those 3...

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PoSmedley

Join Date 04/2005

+788

Skin uploads are rejected for three reasons

Not directed at you, Jafo...

But every time I see this, I have to laugh. I have stated that I like the challenge of trying to get things through moderation. It's helpful for me, personally, and keeps me on my toes. And it feels good to have something that was approved here. But I think back to the 'elitist' argument in another thread. When so many sites don't 'mod' the uploads, how can WC not be elite or it's contributors 'elite'? Even the stuff that mods delegate to the personal gallery becomes uniquely 'elite' in it's own way.

Back to topic...

I think Murex has a very good point in post #40, though a mod or admin may find it to broad or generic. There are some other good points in this thread..all of which it would be nice to see some response to.

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So if some one was to upload a DXtheme or a W/B with a start button, Task Bar,System Tray and a clock and didn't contain any "copyright/ripping, racist imagery/pornography, and/or systemic endangerment" This could be considered a finished skin and rated as average (5) Assuming that this is acceptable then a wallpaper made from a ss of their desktop should be acceptable for download because there might be some users that would like to have a wall showing their start button.

Well Jafo if you tell me a skin like that is acceptable to Wincustomize (and apparently it is) I won't say any thing else on this subject.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1574

Again, it does not have to be considered anything other than suitable for approval. You continue to describe uploads with different degrees of inclusion as 'unfinished' where that is not necessarily the case.

Is a minimalist WB skin 'unfinished' simply because it is minimalist and does not include animations, say?

Are old WB skins 'unfinished' simply because the program has moved on and can now skin more of the GUI than then?

Then...moving to the ratings there-of....does a WB skin automatically deserve a higher rating than a bootskin.....afterall it is far more complex? No, they are rated like for like....so how does that equate with a specifically 'unfinished' [stated by uploader] WB skin over a 'finished' [stated by uploader] WB skin? Rate what you see....for its standard...then maybe knock off a bit for stated lack of completion.

But...

If it IS claimed to be 'finished'....and some bits are not skinned...what do you do? Much the same....penalise a little for omission.

Either way, the upload/rate/system can cope with degrees of perceived completion, and is thus a non-issue...

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OK plain and simple. Jafo do you think a submitted DXtheme with a Start button, task bar, system tray,clock and a few lines of text an acceptable DXtheme to be offered to the users of wincustomize? Oh by the way it has a couple of problems. any idea how I can fix the problems? Would you consider this to be a finished theme? Is this the type of skins Wincustomize wants to offer their users?

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A lot of site MOD. Skinning.net, Skinnalicious to name a couple. So are they elitist? Does Skinartistry MOD? I don't know. Using this logic, the whole world is elitist. There are rules for just about everything. And thank God. The world would be a mess if there wasn't.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1574

OK...likewise...plain and simple...

Acceptable?...yes.

Finished?...who knows?

Complicated?...probably not.

Would I consider it finished? If it were supposed to be total bells and whistles...no. Were it an example of the KISS principle...probably...

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