Regarding Used Copies of GalCiv II » Forum Post by Yarlen

Post 50 summed up what I was dying to bring up-- when you register your serial number, you become able to not only patch up Gal Civ II, you become not only able to install it on any machines that you own (or just have access to), you also become able to download it again should you ever lose your CDs.

In other words, if you sell your copy of GalCiv II back to EBGames or whatever, Stardock still lets you download it. You cannot resell GCII, because you cannot lose access to it.

The end user in this situation has more rights to the product they purchased than 99.9% + of games give to their customers. If the CD gets scratched up or somebody steals your disc, you still have total access to the game that you bought.

Reselling a game is what you do when you hate the publisher or developer, because guess what? They just lost a sale. Someone was willing to buy their hard earned dollars to get the game and yet the developer and publisher doesn't make a dime.

A few years back I returned my copy of Pirates of the Caribbean for instance, and I was happy to have helped my local EBGames deprive Akella of a sale for that unfinished crock of sh*t. In a few days I'll bring back my copy of Enchanted Arms and virtually guarantee one less sale for that competent but uninspired Final Fantasy clone.

Yes you've been screwed if you bought a used copy, but it wasn't Stardock that did it. Stardock isn't required to be upfront about it, but here they are hosting a topic and at the very least enlightening everyone who goes onto the forum not to buy a used copy. It sounds like a good idea to slap a 'only buy this product new' label on their next game, but I don't see any reason to villify the company just because they wanted to avoid traditional copy-protection. Your unique and non-trasferable serial number isn't going to frag your disc drive at least.

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Ok people this is getting rediculous.

If you buy the game second hand you are supposed to get the ENTIRE GAME. Which means both the Account and the Media and the box and documentation. If someone swindeled you its THEIR fault not stardock. You don't get a replacement serial for free just because someone sold you a copy without one. Heck they will even sell you a serial only at a reduced price.

If you bought it at a STORE and it was second hand and the store didn't tell you then the STORE stole from you. Stardock is in no way accountable.

If you were to buy a stolen car the car manufacturer has no obligation to furnish you a replacement. If you buy a second hand copy (which is ARGUABLY stolen) that was sold to you as brand new (which is DEFINATLY stealing from YOU) then the manufacturer of the game has no obligation to do anything, you are not happy with it? sue the STORE that ripped you off.

If you INSIST on buying the game on ebay (which stardock doesn't see a cent off of and is arguably wrong) then just demand that the seller transfer his account over to you, rather then just the physical media.

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I'm not sure if this is the correct forum, but I'm getting a new PC in a few weeks and getting rid of this one.

Question is: what do I need to do about installing on my new PC? I'm obviously a registered user, and have a Galciv2 CD, but can I download the 1.3 patch to my new PC?

Sorry for the obviously noob query - we all have to start somewhere!

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kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+452

You can install from the disc and patch 1.3 over it, or you can just install SDC and download the entire game. It should work without a hitch either way.

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Basically if you resell Galciv2 you need to give the guy you are selling it to not only the cds and the key (or just the key) you also have to give them your SDC info because they arent going to transfer the key to a new or different account due to security issues and the fact thats its a lot of time and effort for no benefit to them

So you can resell Galciv2 you just have to do an extra step and if you have other software and games purchased well you gotta sell those as well since its an account now not just a game key. It's like an MMORPG you don't buy the serial number when you got the game off the shelf you buy the active account with 25 max level characters that is the actual thing you buy and sell. The seller is happy cause he got some of his original purchase price back, the buyer is happy since he gets a reduced price and SD is content that only one person owns the game and its not being pirated (probably not happy that they didnt make any money from the deal but they arent being ripped off either...)

Basically if for whatever reason the person who sold you a used copy of Galciv2 didnt also sell you or give you his SDC information you got ripped off. I agree that Stardock should give notice to stores though not to resell the game since it isnt transferrable in that sense. So if you own other SD software on the Galciv2 account you have to sell that too.

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Yarlen

Join Date 01/2005

+315

I agree that Stardock should give notice to stores though not to resell the game since it isnt transferrable in that sense. So if you own other SD software on the Galciv2 account you have to sell that too.

For the record, we have informed the stores that registered copies aren't transferrable (several times in fact).

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Actually we won't be entertaining these requests, for everyone's information. We don't make any additional revenue off re-sold copies and it costs us money to support these types of requests.

True, but you could make the exact same argument about providing patches. Once someone has bought your game, patching the game provides you with nothing except the goodwill of your customers.

Edit: Oops, sorry I didn't look at the date. I didn't realize that this was a fairly old topic.

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I think the way Stardock does thier copy protection is great. When I moved, I left my GalCiv CDs and manuals behind, and didn't know for months (too busy with other stuff to play any games). When I finally had time, I was able to recover my serial from Stardock and download the full game and I was very pleased with that.

I've lost games before, or worse, the CD key (worse cuz you have the game, know it's a legit copy but can't play it), and end up just buying it again. It sucks, but usually by the time I re-purchase a game it's on the $10 discount rack so I guess it isn't so bad.

Kudos to Stardock for thier copy protection routine.

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You must be kidding me? You've already made your money off the furst sale of the product, why should Stardock make any more money off a resale? You're not going to have to provide any more support to the person who buys a second hand game other than transferring the serial which costs you nothing. Under your logic, there wouldn't be a second hand car market for instance.

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Can You Link me to the KB Article you mentioned? Thanks

Yaran Wrote

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kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+452

Link (It shows below the medals in the original post).

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You must be kidding me? You've already made your money off the furst sale of the product, why should Stardock make any more money off a resale? You're not going to have to provide any more support to the person who buys a second hand game other than transferring the serial which costs you nothing. Under your logic, there wouldn't be a second hand car market for instance.

They have already said that transferring/disabling serial numbers in NOT a trivial or hassle-free thing to do. In other words, it costs them money to perform this NON-STANDARD service, because someone has to go to the trouble of doing it, rather than doing what they could otherwise be doing for the company.

Therefore, I think it's more than fair of them to sell you that SERVICE at a discounted rate (as they have said they will). If you're not willing to pay for that service, then the only other person with whom you should have an issue is the one who sold you the game and ripped you off by not giving you an account with it, since it's already been said that this is also possible.

Furthermore, I want to be another voice to say that I love Stardock's policy towards their games and customers, and it more than makes up for any of these reselling issues. Over the years I've stockpiled literally hundreds upon hundreds of game CDs, CDs that need to be swapped into and out of my computer whenever I want to play a game I've paid for. These CDs take up space, they get lost, and they would get scratched if I wasn't obsessive about them NOT getting scratched.

As a college student, I left most of my older game CDs back home when I went to school. Once in a while I grab an older game or two that I have a craving for when I'm back to my parents' house. Other times I forget even newer games at one location or the other, causing frustration or causing me to buy a second copy.

Stardock's policy has at least twice now saved me from this sort of frustration and hassle, letting me play games I paid for wherever and whenever I wanted to. Anywhere I go with an internet connection (which is pretty much anywhere these days), I can always download SDC, and then download and play the games I've bought from them, all I need to know is my e-mail address.

It's a great system, and I applaud it.

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....But this is the reason why Space Rangers 2 Is selling 3 times the number of copies of Gal Civ II....

This is just another form of DRM. Why do I not have the right to sell my copy of the game once I have finished with it? Do I not own it once I buy it, to do with as I please? No. Because Stardock says I am paying to 'borrow it for a while' without ever owning it!

Then we see all the hoops you have to go through because you bought the Italian version or the special Walmart version or the tin-plated version. And god know what you do when the game appears in bargain bins for £9.99 - how the heck you going to know until you get it home and Stardock accuses you of being a pirate because the serial number has already been used, or pay an additional price to 'buy' a serial number!?

How am I supposed to tell the clever ebay/retail seller that say 'no returns' that has a returned copy of the game or is selling a used copy of the game, versus the genuine? As long as they sell the game for over £25/$35 how am I supposed to tell? And of course 10 years from now, according to Stardock, better not pick up a copy from ANYWHERE, 'cos the serial is still held and you'll still get the 'serial used' even if the original owner is dead!

So in effect I cannot shop for the best price, I do not own it, and I am required to have a variation on Valve's STEAM and give up all my consumer rights.

No thank you. I'll stick with Space Rangers 2. It's solid bug wise and has at least the same amount of entertainment value (based on the demo).

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Pirates 2000 :: Legitimate customers 0 If I did not buy this game from an Ebay seller, I would have bought my own retail copy anyway. If the person who is doing the pirating could not have done this, then they would have never sold the game, and I would not have bought theirs, again I would have purchased my own copy. Either way the creaters of the game Galaxy Civilization II not only loose but are about '' close to getting sued in a class action suite. There is no possible way that the purchaser would know that they are not supposed to buy the game. It is a legal conundrum. Thats right its a really big word and it sums up how many lawyers are going to be up your !#@%.

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The ability to download a game and play it can easily be done with an email address and serial number, as they are doing now, without the restrictions of reselling the game. There is nothing stopping them of providing that service, which must cost them much more than any other service anyway, because they have to maintian a server and websight to support the downloads. In other words, one service does not negate or restrict any other types of services. They still don't have a reason for putting the limitations on reselling the game. The reason that they are doing this is the same reason that every other company does things, to make more money. They don't want people to buy second hand games because they will loose money on new sales from people who have tested and tried the game and did not like it, or just don't play it any more. Its for the money, this is not a religious organization, they do this for the money!

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Why do I not have the right to sell my copy of the game once I have finished with it? Do I not own it once I buy it, to do with as I please? No. Because Stardock says I am paying to 'borrow it for a while' without ever owning it!

From the License and Notices page in the manual:

End User License Agreement.

The SOFTWARE is the property of Stardock Entertainment, Inc...
The SOFTWARE is not sold, it is licensed.

YOU MAY NOT:
Sublicense, rent, lease or transfer your personal serial number without express written consent from Stardock.

And while an end user has no way of knowing before hand, when buying it second hand, the originally licensed user should.

It is the person that attempts to sell the already licensed software that is culpable, not Stardock.

So I really doubt Stardock is losing much sleep over any 'class action lawsuit'.

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you should never want to unless your hocking it for money to feed your kids

Feed the fattest kid to the other kids!

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I'm sorry for getting so negative in the forum. I am just really fustrated. It will take the public some time to understand this new type of licensing procedure and really nobody want someone else to own the rights to something that they purchased. I am wiser now for the dollar and will probably not buy any type of software again unless it comes from my home town store with a receipt. But I should warn you. Just because you seem to have covered yourself with the license agreement, it does not ward you from negative possibilites. (3) the court finds that the questions of law or fact common to the members of the class predominate over any questions affecting only individual members, and that a class action is superior to other available methods for the fair and efficient adjudication of the controversy. The matters pertinent to the findings include: (A) the interest of members of the class in individually controlling the prosecution or defense of separate actions; (

the extent and nature of any litigation concerning the controversy already commenced by or against members of the class; (C) the desirability or undesirability of concentrating the litigation of the claims in the particular forum; (D) the difficulties likely to be encountered in the management of a class action.

There is no way for say me to sue the person who sold me this product because I can not prove your license agreement without you. The court could force you to sue the pirates on other behalfs. But this is just a heads up, I am no threat at all and I do love your games and your online initiative for the most part. Cincerely.

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They have already said that transferring/disabling serial numbers in NOT a trivial or hassle-free thing to do. In other words, it costs them money to perform this NON-STANDARD service, because someone has to go to the trouble of doing it, rather than doing what they could otherwise be doing for the company.

That doesn't make it so. How difficult is it to provide a transfer screen that changes one owner to another? It's a basic database update utility that any decent programmer could write in 10 minutes. Don't beleeve everything Stardock says, just because you're a fanboy. So much for the hype about no copy protection for this game, which is the number one reason I bought it: to reward Stardock. First they try to "lend" you the game, then they introduce product activation in a PATCH. No thanks.

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As for "licensing the software", you're not licensing the software at all. unless you can show me where, on the CD I bought, I can view the software. Since it's an executable, that is not possible, therefore, I bought the GAME and it's mine to do with as I please. If you don't believe that, take all the people selling tehir legally bought CD's to court and lets get this stupid EULA thrown out once and for all.

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kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+452

Don't beleeve everything Stardock says, just because you're a fanboy. So much for the hype about no copy protection for this game, which is the number one reason I bought it: to reward Stardock. First they try to "lend" you the game, then they introduce product activation in a PATCH. No thanks...... I bought the GAME and it's mine to do with as I please. If you don't believe that, take all the people selling tehir legally bought CD's to court and lets get this stupid EULA thrown out once and for all.

It bears repeating what Frogboy said back in August:

Galactic Civilizations II is a PC game that has no CD copy protection whatsoever.

We release free updates that I have a great deal of new content and new features.

But we have to have some way to know that the person downloading the update has the actual game. I don't see any other way around that. If we don't require the original physical CD in the drive, then there's no real verification that the person using updates even has the game.

So the policy is that a user types in a serial # and an email address. In exchange, users can then download the entire latest/greatest version forever afterwards even if they lose their serial #.

Now, if someone returns the game to the store after having created such an account, that serial # is tied to the email address. A person who buys the used game still can play the game. The physical good they purchase works out of the box. We are not required to provide any updates to the game, the game out of the box works fine. The extra updates are essentially a free service we provide to reward customer for supporting us.

Those users who purchased a used game (typically off of eBay or whereever) got it at a much reduced rate, which is fine. But if their account is tied up, then they just need to contact us and we'll provide them with a new serial # for a much reduced cost.

When someone buys Galactic Civilizations II they're really getting two things: (1) The game itself and (2) Lifetime access to Stardock.net which allows them to get new updates and full-redownloads of it. Item #2 involves having a serial # tied to an individual account.

Will such a system satisfy 100% of people? No. But given the alternatives (either CD copy protection or no free updates), I think this is by far the best option for the customer. As a gamer, I don't want to mess with CDs being in the drive and I want my games to keep getting updates after release. I also understand that if I don't have to keep a CD in the drive that there has to be some system in place to assure that I'm actually a customer before I download megabytes of free, non-required updates to the game.

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I'm sorry to bother you with a question that I'm sure you guys have been asked probably a thousand times before, but I'm in a delicate situation and want to be sure.
I have bought GalCiv2 and installed it on my Computer in Austria where I live, and have now moved to Sweden for half a year as an exchange student. Unfortunatley I forgot to install the game on my laptop which I have brought to Sweden and am now having my folks at home sending my copy to the place I am staying now.

Is there a way to use my old serial when I install the game on my notebook and still get full support (download patches)? If not, I have read on the forums that one can purchase a new serial, how much is it and where do I get it from?

Sorry again for these n00bish questions, but Iam a huge fan of GalCiv2 and am looking forward to the Dark Avatar expansion which I intend to buy as soon as it hits the shelves here in Sweden.

Big thanks in advance for your help and keep up carrying on the legacy of Master of Orion II.

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That doesn't make it so. How difficult is it to provide a transfer screen that changes one owner to another? It's a basic database update utility that any decent programmer could write in 10 minutes. Don't beleeve everything Stardock says, just because you're a fanboy. So much for the hype about no copy protection for this game, which is the number one reason I bought it: to reward Stardock. First they try to "lend" you the game, then they introduce product activation in a PATCH. No thanks.

Umm.... I am a programmer, I'm rather experience in databases, and it surely takes alot more than 10 minutes to code such a thing. It's certainly not as easy as slapping together a transfer screen and writing a SQL update query. For once you need to verify what they entered was indeed tied to the original email. Then you need to update. You also need to perform some audit trails (another insert) since you need to know who entered the change and when. Then you want some mechanism in place since this system can rather easily be abused (like what happenes if someone tries to yank the serial without the original owner's consent, preventing abuse of this thing since it won't take much to share with all your friends in such a manner)
Then you need to pass it through QA which chews up another engineers time trying to run various tests and what not.

It's not as simple as you think, and if I were running a game shop, I wouldn't endorse this either. Given the choice between Starforce, SecuROM, or this, I choose Stardock anyday.

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kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+452

I have bought GalCiv2 and installed it on my Computer in Austria where I live, and have now moved to Sweden for half a year as an exchange student. Unfortunatley I forgot to install the game on my laptop which I have brought to Sweden and am now having my folks at home sending my copy to the place I am staying now.

Is there a way to use my old serial when I install the game on my notebook and still get full support (download patches)? If not, I have read on the forums that one can purchase a new serial, how much is it and where do I get it from?

You are free to install the game on two computers if you own them both. If you have registered the game to an account here already, you can simply get Stardock Central from the downloads page and use it to download the entire game rather than pay to ship the box. If not, just have someone back home find the box and read you off the serial so you can register it.

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Thanks for the help Kryo, I downloaded the game via SC and even preordered Dark Avatar.
Can't wait for the expansion.

Edit: Just one thing: I remember having the special ship components in my original game on my computer at home - is there any chance I can get those goodies to download/unlock for my StardockCentral-downloaded version here on my laptop?

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