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Star Control: September 2015 update

By on September 3, 2015 11:25:00 PM from Star Control Forums Star Control Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
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Greetings!

The team is now fully staffed with the exception of bringing on one additional animator.  It is now, the largest game project currently underway at Stardock across all studios in terms of monthly budget.

For those of you who remember the development of the original Star Control series, you may recall that Paul and Fred worked very closely with fan (SC2 mainly).  In fact, thanks to Paul and Fred we've been able to team up Riku who did most of the best known tracks for Star Control 2 back in 1992 and he's in charge of the new sound track.

Now, that said, we have a number of challenges that we need help with.  I'll list them below.

Challenge #1: IS Star Control Star Control without the Spathi?

To preface this, Stardock has the publishing rights to Star Control classic 1/2/3 plus the trademark.  To use an analogy, Stardock is the publisher of Sins of a Solar Empire (however we don't have the trademark, our friends/partners Ironclad own the trademark).  However, we don't' own the rights to the aliens or the lore.  We have a license to use them for the publishing of Star Control 1/2/3.

We've talked to Paul and Fred who still run Toys for Bobs even to this day.  While they expressed interest in working on a new Star Control, Toys for Bob is now owned by Activision.

In movie terms, it's akin to the way the Marvel comics properties tend to get split up between Sony, Fox, and Marvel Studios (Disney).

The bottom line is that the new Star Control will NOT have the aliens from the original in it.  The most we will likely to is have illusions to them.  We're going to create a new continuity where the Star Control classic continuity (Star Control Ur-Quan) is separate from the new Star Control.

When you visit www.starcontrol.com later this Fall, you will absolutely see both classic and new aliens together since we support both the new Star Control and the original trilogy. We plan to provide a fairly elaborate series of pages to support Paul and Fred's backstory so that it's kept alive for the day when they can return to the Ur-Quan story.

However, the NEW game will not have any of that in it. It'll be all new.

AND

There will be people who will absolutely not accept a new Star Control that doesn't have the Spathi, etc. 

What do you think is the best approach for handling that?

 

Challenge #2: What IS Star Control?

While game designs are always unique, I'd like to propose that we look at what we are working on together collective as a specific genre (like 4X strategy).

In Star Control's case: It's an action adventure game. Specifically, an action adventure game in which you play as the Earthlings, go out into the galaxy and meet aliens, go on quests, explore planets, and have space battles.

That is what we're in the process of creating.

 

Challenge #3: Defining some core values

Each person will have their own vision of what they think a new Star Control must contain.  Like I said above, SOME people will absolutely say that Star Control is about the Ur-Quan and the Spathi and so forth. 

For me, it's a bit more general.  I want to interact with really interesting aliens that are well written, funny, charming and try out lots of cool ships, design my own custom ship, etc.  That's why we brought on comedy writers early on and have put a lot of budget behind making sure that we're prepared to record 11 hours of voice acting that will be handle through our engine's lips syncing tech (our engine is made by the some guys who led Civilization V's engineering PLUS additional veterans from around the industry).

 

Challenge #4: Satisfying the super fans

So how are we going to make the hard core fans happy?

Broadly speaking (without giving too much away) we plan to provide fairly extravagant mod tools. Tools well beyond what has ever been made outside of say Spore.

If you've read "Ready Player One" then you have a pretty good idea of the authoring level we are going for.  We'll be talking a lot more about this as we progress.

The main point is that our goal is to make the Star Control universe all-encompassing. Infinite continuities with OUR included initial campaign just one of an endless number that the community can provide.  If you've seen what the Ur-Quan masters team have done, imagine if they had millions of dollars in engineering hours designated to providing tools and support to ensure that there's a never ending stream of Star Control content.

 

Anyway, that's where we are now. 

Cheers!

-brad

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November 3, 2015 12:44:30 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

OktoberStorm, are you really going to get yourself banned over this, when there's a much better route to take? Why not be a constructive part of this group? Stardock doesn't want all just Yes-Men to help with Star Control, they need criticism as well - but not like this, man. Not like this.

Your profile pic is the Yehat, FFS! You obviously love the game very much. There's just a much better way to show it.

And Frogboy, no one else thinks that on here. Rest assured.

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November 7, 2015 6:30:43 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Well, I am one of those Superfans, I suppose, though the Spathi are not my favorite aliens.

With that said, I don't really have a problem with a reboot that doesn't include the already existing aliens.

My favorite part of playing Star Control, and Then SC2, was the exploration. Meeting the alien races for the first time is something you can only experience once, and as far as I am concerned, I would be perfectly happy to only meet new aliens this time.

With that said, they have to be well done and it has to be a rewarding experience to meet the new aliens. I can understand the disappointment, and share some of it to, in some aspects of development, but to be honest, I'm not overly concerned with the continuity aspect of Star Control from a storytelling standpoint. Which is not to say that I didn't love the story and don't have high expectations for this game to deliver in that front too. I expect an engaging story, complete with mystery and cryptic clues scattered throughout the galaxy for you to uncover and piece together. Engaging hostile, benign and friendly alien races along the way and learning how to negotiate, appease or destroy them to accomplish your goals.

I'm much more concerned with the intangible "feel" of this game matching the "feel" of playing Star Control 2. If Stardock can do this, I don't need to see the same races as before.

 

 

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November 8, 2015 3:39:58 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting cuorebrave,

are you really going to get yourself banned over this, when there's a much better route to take?

 

It's not lost on me that the mods open this forum for all kinds of input, as long as it's not intentionally disruptive. I was 100% honest, and I respect the mods for leaving me and my posts for all of you to comment. 

 

Like I said in one of my earliest comments; I'm not going to repeat myself, but obviously it wasn't that easy when seeing some people play the same tune over and over, and newcomers actually believing that the new Star Control is going to continue/reboot the actual lore itself. 

 

I do have some constructive suggestions, though: Make a feedback thread where it's possible to comment only once. That way no-one's comments are buried by sheer verbosity by others, and everyone has their say. 

 

And finally: I promise this is my last post in a while. I've said exactly what my thoughts are, and I've been treated respectfully.

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November 8, 2015 5:08:14 PM from Star Control Forums Star Control Forums

I primarily lurk but wanted to throw in my two cents lest the game go in some preventable direction.

re: classic lore exclusion (challenge #1) - Seems OK to me, understandably may require a little re-jiggering of history to launch a separate timeline. I'm not interested in replacing or extending my SC1/2/3 memories with this new game. (I'm not aware of a sequel for a title that came out 10+ years after the original and was considered successful, so the folks clamoring for a SC2 successor sound strange to me.) A new adventure with the same mechanics is exactly what I'd love to see.

re: core values (challenge #3) - My values align with yours, Brad. With one exception -- I'm not interested in the advanced customization or community aspects and hope the team doesn't focus on this to the point where we end up with a rigid Star Control single player that doesn't do X because X would have to be exposed to mod developers. But I understand this tool is central to appeasing super fans who will undoubtedly feel the need to "fix" things. Tough balance, but you're not stranger to this problem.

re: Ready Player One references - Haha, not sure why that book keeps coming up. That book is a 80s reference landfill with mind numbing levels of boring exposition. I absolutely hated that book and hope is not representative of anything other than maybe the EULA in Star Control.  

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November 8, 2015 5:27:59 PM from Star Control Forums Star Control Forums

Just to make crystal clear:

If Paul and Fred wanted to personally work on a new Star Control reboot that made use of the original aliens then we'd be willing to do that.  It has nothing to do with Activision.

So don't confuse my ethical beliefs with my legal beliefs. They are not the same.  Legally speaking, Activision nor Toys for Bob have any rights to the Ur-Quan lore.  Similarly, Stardock has zero rights to the GalCiv lore. It's mine. Personally. 

The main difference is that unlike Accolade, with Star Control 3, I don't believe anyone but Paul and Fred have the rights to mess with the Ur-Quan lore and aliens. I believe their rights to be identical to my rights on the GalCiv aliens. Personal, common-law copyright.  Paul and Fred PERSONALLY have ownership of that lore. That is our position and the one we'd be wiling to legally enforce if push came to shove (i.e. if Activision tried to make a Ur-Quan game without Paul and Fred's license we'd weigh our legal options).

Moreover, Paul asked me not to use the lore without his involvement. That alone would be good enough for me. There is a difference between FANS making mods of it and a company doing it because Paul and Fred have previously allowed fans to make their own takes on their lore.

The ONLY way I would be willing to use the original aliens and lore is if Paul and Fred, both, expressly supported it AND were personally involved. In other words, I would not be willing to use the aliens or lore unless Paul and Fred were involved even if they publicly said they'd be fine with us using it.

I will admit, I do not share the depth of passion for the lore/aliens of Star Control 2 that you do, Okt. I loved the story and I ate up every bit of lore that there was.  But I never considered Star Control to be particularly connected to a specific set of aliens. Star Control, for me, is about humans exploring the galaxy and having adventures with aliens and dealing with ships with unique powers all put together through an interesting story.

If Paul and Fred had made a Star Control 3 with a totally different cast of aliens, I'd been just as fine with that as long as the game was good. But let's get something straight: It is not commercially viable to try to create a lore-based SEQUEL to a quarter-century old video game.  There was zero chance of that ever happening.

Only a total reboot is commercially viable and the only way that would work with the original aliens would be with a new continuity and a new story. Otherwise, it would have just been called Star Control 2 HD. And there's no way we'd contemplate a complete rewriting of the original story without Paul and Fred. The hard core fans would absolutely (And correctly) riot.

 

 

 

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November 8, 2015 11:35:40 PM from Star Control Forums Star Control Forums

Good stuff Frog and I agree with you 100%.

 

I'm actually intrigued with all the possibilities of this new Star Control.

 

Different aliens and races set around the time of 2085 or before.

 

Creating your own Multiverse and customizing your flagship to look nothing like anyone else's.

 

I can't wait for more details to this game Frog.

 

1)Like, how many default star control ships will be in the game? More or less than the 25 in star control 2. ( counting the probe)

2)More details on planet landing and planet/moon scanning?

 

3)Will an official star map come with game on purchase like SC2?

 

4)What kind of upgrades can we look forward too, Regarding our ship(s)?

 

5)Will the game deal with RU's and credits as a currency or will it be something else?

 

6)Can you merge races together like the Mnmmr transformer and Chensesu did? Making the Chmur Avatar?

 

7)What and does a person create their own storyline?

 

stuff like that.

 

keep us posted Frog. Doing a great job!

 

 

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December 5, 2015 7:27:24 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I am glad to see some new fresh air in the series I hope the lore can be kept intact. New aliens, love the idea.

Challenge #1 

While the lore of the Alliance of free stars can be left behind, while humans push their frontiers, this is still a war story.  This is also a story of discovery, of the past and the future. Lastly, its about putting the pieces back together while trying to survive in the wake of an apocalypse for many races. Star Control 2 did such a good job of this. They also made the Villains relatable and you could sympathize with them.

Now if this is a reboot of the war in StarCon 1, I would love to revisit the uplifting of the humans. Putting them in their hastily built ships and throwing them at superiorly armed aliens for a cause they don't really understand but soon come to embrace as they explore the galaxy. That story is just dying to be told. Plus it adds the advantage that Humans don't even know what aliens there are and allows a lore reset.

Challenge #2 seems more like the plot to Star Trek vs Star Control.  Humans were uplifted by the <insert alien> while they were still terrified of war. Instead of boldly going were no one had gone before, they were thrust into a galactic war that had lasted millennia and destroyed more races and planets than they could ever meet.  

Challenge #3 I did not realize how much this adds to the game till I played the 3DO version.

Challenge #4 I love mods, but they rarely exceed what the developers can do.  Fans will tell their stories, as long as the engine is easily moddable. Spore I think was to much about modding and lost the story it was trying to tell.

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June 5, 2016 8:18:22 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

"The bottom line is that the new Star Control will NOT have the aliens from the original in it.  The most we will likely to is have illusions to them.  We're going to create a new continuity where the Star Control classic continuity (Star Control Ur-Quan) is separate from the new Star Control."

-

"You... Don't own the aliens or the lore IP, but you want to make a sequel?"

- OktoberStorm

 

Just stumbled across this. Thought I'd try to help "solve" the issue. *puts designer hat on*

I suggest titling it "Star Control: Alternate Universe" (or similar). It lets people know it's going to be (1) the re-created classic Star Control gameplay type experience, with (2) an Alternate cast and lore (in fact, use that tag line... or similar as a descriptor). This (a) communicates intuitively to people straight off what game is being made, and ( doesn't leave anyone feeling deceived or "embarrassed".

One of the tricks to a great pitch, is to manage customer expectations. Make sure they know what to expect, and only have good surprises (like news about your creatively consulting with the game's creators, or sharing your group's personal love of the past series, or the story behind the chance to revive it and bring it to a whole new generation of gamers). You have the genre chops, and the license has been comatose forever, people should be celebrating what you are hoping to do: so be square with them and make their first thought be "interesting, I want to check it out. I'd love to play a modern SC" or "hmmm, heard so much about this series, I'm glad they're getting the chance to do a modern update right." etc., etc.

 

 

 

 

 

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June 5, 2016 2:56:48 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Tovanion,


Quoting UrQuanian,






Quoting Tovanion,











Quoting UrQuanian,







he majority likes that part of the game including myself and we simply won't accept the game whatsoever without it !




Ur-Quanian, before you start speaking for the majority, please take some time to *poll* said majority about a topic. Otherwise, it is just an empty claim to support your point of view with nonexistent evidence.

 

I am part of the ones you did not ask and did not consult. You do not know what I think. Therefore, how you claim to say what I think or what I don't think?




 

No need for a poll, I have read most of the replies on this forum to see that the majority that replied does NOT want Star Control to change into some other mainstream genre, and of course i never claimed to speak on your behalf, there will always be people that differ in any type of situation anywhere in the world, however from what i see here on this forum, people want this game to stay Star Control, not change into something mainstream where there is already an over saturated market of the same old same.

Don't get me wrong, i have nothing against RTS games, but Star Control is not RTS like, it is a unique genre of it's own with realtime 1 on 1 battlle !

Whether it be one on one battles, or scouting planets or traveling through the universe, it's Alive ! Experiencing it realtime as you directly control your ship is perfect ! Only Star Control has the ability to put forward something that no other mainstream genre can do, changing Star Control into a mainstream genre will take a away it's truly wonderful uniqueness that takes away an ability to satisfy a need that cannot be found in any other genre.

 



1- You read the comments of the people that are most vocal.  And just like in any other group, the most vocal people are often the extremists. What I am saying is that you do not have an accurate view of all hardcore fans, only the die-hard ones that would rather not have a new game than to have one that is on iota different from the last ones. And the people that are here are just a part of the fringe that constitutes the extreme fans of SC1 and SC2, which, in turn, is just a fringe of the SC1&SC2 (non-die-hard) fans or people that just simply enjoyed the original games.  We, the people on this forum, are the minority of a minority of a vast number of people. And the people that only want to retain the original mechanics of the games are just the most vocal minority of the minority of the minority of a vast number.

 

So gimme a break with the "No need for a poll".  You are not the umbilic of the SC universe.  There isn't one. And if there was one, it would be me

 

2- Can you please give the "RTS" VS "SC2-as-it-was-and-nothing-else" dichotomy a rest?  Fleet management does *not necessarily* mean RTS. I posted a suggestion for an in-between that is in no way RTS, for example.

 

Finally, I believe there is such a thing called "Faith", another called "Trust" and a third called "Open-mindedness".  We are on the forums of a company that is committed to making a game that will revive a franchise that has long lain dormant, and that is determined to revive the franchise by respecting all involved parties (the IP itself, the creators of the original games, and the fans that kept the franchise on life-support for a quarter of a century).

 

Give them some room to be creative, instead of just wanting to impose your "My-vision-of-what-it-should-be-otherwise-I-will-not-play-it".

 

When they start the founder's program, that we start having more information and that we start messing around with the game, THEN we can really say if the game as envisioned is truly a successor to SC1&2 or not.  At the moment, the only thing we can do is say: "I would like to find this and that in the game" and "I would really enjoy the game if...".  None of us, forum denizens, is authoritative in any way, shape or form.

 

And without any authority, no one can claim to speak for a majority, unless you're speaking for a majority of 1 person: yourself.

 

You make an assumption based on your own opinion that the most vocal people are the most extremists and then moreover you speak as if fact that those not even registered on this site will all have a different opinion, i'm sorry your single view cannot be seen as the majority, my view has been backed up by many on this site, passionate about what made star control so unique ! this site and all the people passionate about what made star control Star Control knows what the game should be like, so again No need for a poll at all whatsoever, opinions based on what star control should be like has been discussed and the majority agrees about what it should be like.

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June 5, 2016 3:08:23 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Vaelzad,


Quoting Tovanion,


2- Can you please give the "RTS" VS "SC2-as-it-was-and-nothing-else" dichotomy a rest?  Fleet management does *not necessarily* mean RTS. I posted a suggestion for an in-between that is in no way RTS, for example.




I believe I can put this one to rest once and for all.

Star Control is NOT being developed as a RTS. It is being developed along the same vein as Star Control 2.

 

 

 

+1

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June 5, 2016 3:13:43 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting bum783,


Quoting Tovanion,






 



1- You read the comments of the people that are most vocal.  And just like in any other group, the most vocal people are often the extremists. What I am saying is that you do not have an accurate view of all hardcore fans, only the die-hard ones that would rather not have a new game than to have one that is on iota different from the last ones.



 

I agree with you from the stand point that anyone claiming to KNOW what MOST people want is ridiculous. Where I disagree with you is the part about the most vocal people being extremists.  I would argue that comment is just as ridiculous a blanket statement as claiming to know what MOST people want. Extremists can be the most vocal in some areas of society, especially where people seek an outlet to complain. In this case however its a website that people found out of excitement for the game, then Stardock asked for input. I have been one of the most vocal people here BUT that has been out of concern that a game ive so desperately wanted a sequel too is going to be done poorly. I THINK there are more creative ways to develop a game without using the tired alternate timeline story.  I THINK that's a very legitimate critique of what little information has been shared....

 +1

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June 6, 2016 8:24:50 AM from Star Control Forums Star Control Forums

I bear witness to the second coming of the September 2015 update thread.

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June 7, 2016 3:38:04 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'm going to be totally honest here. I was extremely disappointed to hear that the original races/lore/storyline will not be used. 

I hear the party line that it is out of respect for the creators of the game since they can't be involved and I can respect that. However, to then go ahead and still use the name Star Control for the game baffles me.

This game may turn out to be very good and I do wish all the best for Stardock in this endevour but it isn't Star Control. It can't be. 

 

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June 18, 2016 3:17:50 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

when you say die hard fans.. you're talking about me.. I have loved star control since it was a new thing.. And here's my 2 cents.. I am super happy with the enthusiasm the team seems to have.. I have noticed this ugly new trend in gaming lately that I wish more players would go up in arms about is all this "pre-order" and "dlc" and now even "pay-as-you-go" play like what you would have with the new Hitman game... These "terms" they are not good ones.. pre-order, all it really means is that you are paying some guys out in L.A. for a video game they haven't even finished making yet.. DLC, all that means is you're gonna have to wait, for the rest of the game you bought.. And pay for it.. Anyway, I am getting off topic.. I say dont worry about not having the same races in this one.. We will love the new races, you say they are going to be excitingly diverse and funny, and quirky, well then I believe you, and I know you can pull it off.. Im excited to see what you can do.. Obviously the gaming world had changed so much since star control 2, and this is where my biggest concern for the game comes into play.. I worry that this game is gonna be big onto many new features in this genre like what you would see in mass effect, or other new titles... And I implore you, one of the largest reasons star control 2 is still today such an amazing game, is in the simplicity.. Please dont put too much into attempting to modernize the game.. We dont want or need tons of bells and whistles.. My last piece of advice, please, just love what you are doing.. The passion is so clear in star control 2... Every single team member is so damn lucky to have their part in the creation of the game.. I would clean the toilets there for minimum wage in a heartbeat just to be that close to this... Love what you are doing, and we will love you for doing it.. Thanks guys... I cant wait..

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June 18, 2016 9:57:44 AM from Star Control Forums Star Control Forums

Quoting vagKILL,

when you say die hard fans.. you're talking about me.. I have loved star control since it was a new thing.. And here's my 2 cents.. I am super happy with the enthusiasm the team seems to have.. I have noticed this ugly new trend in gaming lately that I wish more players would go up in arms about is all this "pre-order" and "dlc" and now even "pay-as-you-go" play like what you would have with the new Hitman game... These "terms" they are not good ones.. pre-order, all it really means is that you are paying some guys out in L.A. for a video game they haven't even finished making yet.. DLC, all that means is you're gonna have to wait, for the rest of the game you bought.. And pay for it.. Anyway, I am getting off topic.. I say dont worry about not having the same races in this one.. We will love the new races, you say they are going to be excitingly diverse and funny, and quirky, well then I believe you, and I know you can pull it off.. Im excited to see what you can do.. Obviously the gaming world had changed so much since star control 2, and this is where my biggest concern for the game comes into play.. I worry that this game is gonna be big onto many new features in this genre like what you would see in mass effect, or other new titles... And I implore you, one of the largest reasons star control 2 is still today such an amazing game, is in the simplicity.. Please dont put too much into attempting to modernize the game.. We dont want or need tons of bells and whistles.. My last piece of advice, please, just love what you are doing.. The passion is so clear in star control 2... Every single team member is so damn lucky to have their part in the creation of the game.. I would clean the toilets there for minimum wage in a heartbeat just to be that close to this... Love what you are doing, and we will love you for doing it.. Thanks guys... I cant wait..

Excelente sentiment. Why are you off killin' vag, instead of being in the Founder's program!? Hmm?!

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June 18, 2016 10:15:34 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Thank you.. Please tell me more about the "Founders Program"

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June 22, 2016 2:05:49 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Well... I'll try to answer to these questions. Please, read this post completelly.

As a foreword. Star Control II came years before my birth, and I firstly met this game in 2013. But, unfortunately, I didn't play in it then, because I was too afraid of time limit. Afraid for nothing absolutely, but I was too afraid to loose. I have read many information about this game, but didn't play the SC2 before I met one great article about its tale and read it completely... and it already was the reason to place this game №1 in my personal list of the best games ever for me. I didn't listen to the music, I didn't play game actually for this moment! But then I played this game and listened to the music, when I became interested in it... and understood, that the game is even better, that I considered before, and the giving of the rank of the best game I've ever met is not enough. I feel awkward that didn't play this game before, because if I did it, I didn't waste much time for trying to find a thing I need. You'll ask, how many days ago it happened? Ten, and only one day to consider that this game is the best. Therefore, I'm not a nostalgic fan; other reasons drive me to say about this game as a masterpiece (I'll say about them later).

I could write about the suggestions, what should the developers do to encourage me to play. But even if I was hard core fan, did I have many rights to talk about it? Well, I don't think so. I didn't create any game, didn't write music, didn't write a tale, didn't write a code, didn't draw sprites yet. Even if I did it totally awfully - at least it was the trying; but I even didn't try yet. I don't think I should judge other people, when I achieved a little in development.

I'll start with third question - about the values of the upcoming game (valuable for me). Well, I think, they are the same with Star Control 2. You’ll ask, what are these values?

It’s not the graphics. They are great in SC2, no doubt, and even while there are outdated for now (24 years passed), they are great no less (I play with them, not with HD sprites). The sprites of Yehat, Shofixti are the little part of the sprites I like; it’s hard to believe, that the resolution of this picture is 320x200, and it use only 256 colors. It was the highest resolution for 1992, but even for this resolution it looks amazing. But it’s not the most valuable thing in this game for me. Another most favorite (for me) games – Sacred 1/2, Duke Nukem 3D, Dungeon Siege 1/2, Wither 1 – also have graphics, outdated for now, but it don’t spoil the gaming even a little. I’m the gamer who think that the graphics is the least valuable reason to not play the game. Let it be not surely hi-end, I don’t think that this game will be less great a little.

It’s not the music. I love original MOD music, and often listen to it using foobar2000 (yes, I’m listening to the original Protracker module files, not WAV/OGG/MP3 recordings). I like voice action, especially Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah’s. But it’s also not the most valuable thing for me. I will accept this game even with not masterpiece music and voice action, just with good.

It’s not a gameplay. Of course, it’s one of the most valuable part of each game... but if the gameplay are absolutely the same, it sometimes most likely clone of remake, not another game. No doubt, that the base of it – like diplomacy, traiding system – are the base of true SC2. But I’ll accept changes that don’t alter the base.

This is the lore. More specifically, character’s motives. What made me to consider it masterpiece? The fact that the lore makes you to really believe, that, whatever the alien races do, they didn’t have a choice.

Ur-Quan? They’re bad guys, of course. But what they have to do after their slavery, which showed that even weak race can submit another. And Dnyarri didn’t even have weapons and ships for invasion; they did without both. Due to the large size of the Galaxy, Ur-Quans were put before the choice – to wait the next invasion from unknown side or to prevent it. Such a human reaction...

Yehats? I wish I had a choice if the race of the my friends almost disappeared because of other race, and my Queen decided to makes me a slave of that race just to keep a promise to keep the peace eternally. And my friend suddenly returned from oblivion...

Shofixti? If you have weak ships and lost the last battle, what you have to do instead of using last chance to harm your enemy? Some sources even say that Ur-Quan lost about 3/10 of the fleet. Not bad... bad thing that it didn’t stop their invasion a little.

Syreen? What to talk about the resistance without the planet and the fleet... But with powerful friend after getting the fleet – it’s must be a personal duty to destroy the race that destroyed their whole homeworld.

You say that Ur-Quan, Shofixti, Syreen, Yehat are aliens? Yes and no. They are just renamed humans, who behave like regular human from 1992, who talks like human from 1992, reacts like human from 1992. Every people can find himself in one of them. This is the thing that, in my opinion, is the most valuable. I met before this game thousands tales with bad guys; in most cases, bad guys did bad things... simply because they’re bad guys. Hardly 10% of them tried to explain why they did that. But I’ve never met before such realistic explanation. This tale helped me to understand, what I should do in my affairs. For me, unstamped and realistic plots are as valuable as gold (not a joke). It was the thing I tried to find for monthes. Why? Well... let it be a little secret (not such, but don’t want to talk about it on topics, better to talk about it in the privacy letters).

And the texts. They’re also masterpiece; its level is the level of the, maybe, «The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy», no less.  Because of this game, I remember the meaning the words like «filth», «cleanse», «wrath», and will know more (yes, English isn’t my native language). Many phrases like «You are no longer filth. You are a threat. A threat deserves greater attention than filth» are easily memorable; they can sometimes be used in real life speech (not often, of course).

My only wish to the upcoming game is to create another plot (of course, another game will have another plot), but with not less realistic motives and great texts/dialogs. For me, that’s the things that make Star Control to be Star Control.

Then I’ll try to answer – what IS SC2?

Some people say, it’s action game. I’m absolutely agree. Some people say, it’s RPG. I’m agree again. But I think, it’s also a kind of real-time based strategy. Why, you ask? Well, I’ll answer.

Imagine yourself as a newbie (and more specifically – as me, when I ran this game first time). You may know the tale, but it’s only a half of the answer how to beat this game. The other half is yours. What will you do?

If you’ll fly to Pkunk firstly, you’ll most likely travel in Iwrath’s space. They’ll find you before you meet Gamma Krueger, and they’ll easily defeat you. If you firstly found Taalo shield and decided to fly to Umgah to get the Dnyarri, you forgot that they’re the slaves of Ur-Quan; even with their weak ships, they’ll kill you before you will land on their homeplanet. If you want to fly firstly to Slylandro’s home (with no use of QuasiSpace), say goodbye to your fuel, time and safety; Slylandro probes will find you on the way, while you can compare nothing to it’s thunderbolts. And don’t forget, they are almost on the opposide side of the map. You consider the probes as thing, that don’t deserve any attention? Well, you consider that your crew costs nothing, because they will appear more often as you’ll play longer. Decided not to save Shofixti? Well, you can beat the game, but say goodbye to Shofixti’s ships, cheap crew, Yehat’s and Pkunk’s forses in last battle. You play this game too long? Meet the Death March and game over. You was rude to the candidate for allie? Well, you lost some support from them; sometimes you became unable to beat the game. There are thousands of ways how to beat his game, but the player should wisely choose his way. I spent hours just looking on the map and thinking where should I go. For me, it’s most likely Civilization, but not turn-based. Not the actual game genre, but nearly as.

The next question is: is Star Control without Spathi a Star Control?

I think – yes, of course. Just ten days ago I confused Umgah with Utwig, Shofixti with Spathi, didn’t remember, who is who. But learned it in three days. This fact makes me to guess, that changing a name of races (except, maybe, humans, but not entirely sure) don’t prevent neither old, or new players to play in new game.

As for the races aside from their names... Also yes. As I said above, the only differences between them and regular humans we meet in usual life is the names. It’s such conditionally, how to choose them... The only thing I wish is to make them behave and talk also like real people (lold about it above).

And the last question. About the hard core fans.

Hmm... I’m not a hard core fan, so I really dunno what to say. As for another plot? Depending on things I was talking about above, I guess that it won’t be a great loss. There are many examples how the game series changed lore and remained to be good. Sacred 1 and 2, Quake 1 and 2, every GTA game – they don’t have much joint story. I don’t sure that it’s the same case, but they’re can be the same. If it is, I guess that some easter eggs from original games are necessary, but not much bigger.

Maybe the balanced mix of old and new features will help to make them happy?

That’s all. You’ve already read my poor half of cent. Sorry for any typos or grammars, as I said, English ain’t my native language. In my country, Star Control 2 unfortunately isn’t popular as it could be, but I guess that it’s mostly due to requirement of perfect English knowledge to play, and if the upcoming game will attract the fans, with translation it will be hit game. 

While playing SC2, it's hardly to not notice the great love of the developers to the game. It's a very big feeling, and I believe that all difficulties will be overcomed.

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July 8, 2016 9:44:46 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I know I'm comically late to this discussion, but I thought I'd weigh in anyway.

 

Star Control is NOT Star Control without the Spathi...UNLESS. UNLESS it is set in a different sector, and you're either not playing as humans or are playing as a Voyager-esque group of "hurled across time and space" humans.

 

Honestly? I'd flip for a game where you play the Taalo. Of course, you can't use the name "Taalo," but since there's so little in the lore about them other than that name and that they're made of rocks, you could probably still do it.

 

The other thing you could do is have us play as a "passingly mentioned" or "non-named" race. How awesome would it be to be the Keel-Verezy ship that almost crashed into the Mark 1 in Star Control II? In fact, I wonder if you have the rights to use any of these "mentioned in passing" races.

 

Bottom line: It's not Star Control if there's NO connection to the original games. You need to connect it as much as you're legally able to, and the more the better.

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July 9, 2016 8:35:21 PM from Little Tiny Frogs Forums Little Tiny Frogs Forums

Quoting Pellucid,

I know I'm comically late to this discussion, but I thought I'd weigh in anyway.

 

Star Control is NOT Star Control without the Spathi...UNLESS. UNLESS it is set in a different sector, and you're either not playing as humans or are playing as a Voyager-esque group of "hurled across time and space" humans.

 

Honestly? I'd flip for a game where you play the Taalo. Of course, you can't use the name "Taalo," but since there's so little in the lore about them other than that name and that they're made of rocks, you could probably still do it.

 

The other thing you could do is have us play as a "passingly mentioned" or "non-named" race. How awesome would it be to be the Keel-Verezy ship that almost crashed into the Mark 1 in Star Control II? In fact, I wonder if you have the rights to use any of these "mentioned in passing" races.

 

Bottom line: It's not Star Control if there's NO connection to the original games. You need to connect it as much as you're legally able to, and the more the better.

 

I can't speak with total authority on this topic as only Andrew (new Star Control:o designer), Paul Reiche (Star Control 2 designer) know everything.

Over the past year we've had a lot of time to think about the various conflicts.  For example, originally we were taking the position that Star Control 3 was just not canon.  That gets very confusing (and there's really no "simple" way to deal with Star Control 3 from a lore point of view.

What I can say is that all Star Control games exist within the same multiverse.  It is unlikely that any of the aliens from Star Control 2 will appear in the new Star Control game but the Star Control II lore/aliens are NOT being retconned out or anything of that nature.  However, we are also not planning to use the Star Control 3 aliens either.

Instead: Visualize the Star Control multiverse as being a big circle.  Within that circle is the Ur-Quan universe because that is what many of you are really talking about because you can't say "It's not Star Control without X" while pretending there was no Star Control 3.  Star Control 3 exists. It can't be hand waived away.   Also, Star Control 2 made massive changes to the timeline that was established in Star Control 1.

So we, Stardock, the custodians of the Star Control universe we have to reconcile all this.  And we would like to do that with a general consensus (and get Paul and Fred's thoughts on it as well).  Our general feeling is that Star Control 1/2 exist in the Ur-Quan universe.  Star Control 3 exists in the Hegemonic Crux universe which has a similar history to the Ur-Quan universe.  The new Star Control game will exist as another part of the overall Star Control universe.

By doing it this way, one day, when Paul and Fred are able to return to their creation, it's there, untouched, ready to be continued by them with their vision.

Does that mean the new Star Control universe won't ever have Spathi and such? No, it doesn't.  No one knows what the future may bring.  But even if the Spathi and Ur-Quan show up in a future expansion or something, it won't necessarily have the same history at the Ur-Quan timeline.

Sorry to ramble. This all probably makes more sense if you're familiar with comic books.

 

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July 10, 2016 11:09:19 AM from Star Control Forums Star Control Forums

I get the whole multiverse concept that is being established and it makes sense; it actually is reminiscent of Star Trek to me. Many of the stories weren't really serialized in nature, but often disconnected from one another narratively and could exist as separate stories from one episode to the next. However, I remain curious about the relationship that Stardock intends to have with Toys for Bob and how it will be actually come to fruition to be realized, given the nature of how things work in the industry.

It's been acknowledged a few times (above, for example) that the idea is to reestablish the franchise in a way that would allow Paul Reiche to return to and continue the original story, but it's also been inferred by both sides that they can't participate in outside projects for any given reason. Perhaps primarily due to TFB's parent relationship with Activision.

Even though they are technically outside developers and have worked on a variety of IPs, I've gotten the sense over time that they aren't really at liberty to pick and choose the projects they want to work on and have sort of had to pick their battles in terms of matching their strong suit of talents with what the publisher wants to sell. And Activision is more than happy to sell Skylanders product because it's a freaking cash cow and I think they're going to milk it long and hard until it's not worth milking anymore.

That being said, they're basically rolling in Skylanders cash, so you can argue that anything outside of that IP (especially revisiting a 25-year old forgotten franchise) would be a passion project for TFB and not something they would earn much money on, legal issues aside. So they don't really have a financial incentive to participate. And with the amount of time they spend developing Skylanders, I don't think they have a minute of time to spare either. Assuming they did, would they just be using the same set of tools we'll have to create their own 'verse and release it as a paid DLC package?

This ambition of the creators returning to their property is super and welcomed by all, but how do you intend for it to be articulated in a realistic way? I really do want to believe it could be a thing, but I don't understand how it's going to happen or what form it would take.

P.S. I really appreciate as much "rambling" on this subject as possible. 

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July 10, 2016 12:44:07 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Hey, Not looking for an argument. Not saying you are wrong.. But just wanted to offer a different perspective and if afterwards you still feel the same, we can move on no worse for wear.. 

After the loss of Capt. Kirk, Star Trek remained Star Trek.. In fact, we lost Kirk, his ship, and entire crew.. But Picard came around, and if you put Kirk Vs Picard aside, you see that they were both successful, enjoyable, solid, but very different versions of star trek.. 

After the loss of Paul Walker.. Fast & Furious was still fast and furious.. It was fast n furious even in #2 without vin diesel.. 

Minions was great, and even though my favorite character Dave wasn't in the movie. Still fantastic..

The original oracle was only the first Matrix.. 

 

Now I am sure that you could counter-argue that many many more things have been ruined with the loss of characters completely ruining something too..

 

But its not the common denominator..  Its not the characters, or locations, or plot line that made star control II so good.. Its the love, dedication, effort, heart, blood, sweat, and tears that they put into making the game.. And I believe whole heartedly that if that same passion to make a good game goes into a new Star Control, than the species, plot, places, really dont matter.. If nothing else, Im excited to see what they come up with next.. 

 

Just food for thought.. 

I want badly to stay positive.. Because a new star control would be the biggest thing in the gaming world (for me personally) in the last 2 decades... I want so badly to believe that even though the conditions aren't ideal, or the team isnt the same.. the greatness could still be achieved.. 

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July 11, 2016 5:10:46 PM from Little Tiny Frogs Forums Little Tiny Frogs Forums

Quoting Awkbird,

I get the whole multiverse concept that is being established and it makes sense; it actually is reminiscent of Star Trek to me. Many of the stories weren't really serialized in nature, but often disconnected from one another narratively and could exist as separate stories from one episode to the next. However, I remain curious about the relationship that Stardock intends to have with Toys for Bob and how it will be actually come to fruition to be realized, given the nature of how things work in the industry.

It's been acknowledged a few times (above, for example) that the idea is to reestablish the franchise in a way that would allow Paul Reiche to return to and continue the original story, but it's also been inferred by both sides that they can't participate in outside projects for any given reason. Perhaps primarily due to TFB's parent relationship with Activision.

Even though they are technically outside developers and have worked on a variety of IPs, I've gotten the sense over time that they aren't really at liberty to pick and choose the projects they want to work on and have sort of had to pick their battles in terms of matching their strong suit of talents with what the publisher wants to sell. And Activision is more than happy to sell Skylanders product because it's a freaking cash cow and I think they're going to milk it long and hard until it's not worth milking anymore.

That being said, they're basically rolling in Skylanders cash, so you can argue that anything outside of that IP (especially revisiting a 25-year old forgotten franchise) would be a passion project for TFB and not something they would earn much money on, legal issues aside. So they don't really have a financial incentive to participate. And with the amount of time they spend developing Skylanders, I don't think they have a minute of time to spare either. Assuming they did, would they just be using the same set of tools we'll have to create their own 'verse and release it as a paid DLC package?

This ambition of the creators returning to their property is super and welcomed by all, but how do you intend for it to be articulated in a realistic way? I really do want to believe it could be a thing, but I don't understand how it's going to happen or what form it would take.

P.S. I really appreciate as much "rambling" on this subject as possible. 

Excellent.

Now, bear in mind, everything I say may become outdated. Even during the Founder's program, a lot of our views have changed based on persuasive arguments written by the founders.

Now one of the things to understand about Star Control is that ultimately, it is a game about the player controlling a ship with a crew that is exploring the galaxy,  meeting aliens, getting into battles, exploring planets and finding new friends, allies, crew, and equipment. That is the core of Star Control.

In order to do Star Control correctly, we have ultimately decided that the stories have to exist within their own separate universe within the overall Star Control universe. 

Star Control 2 already provided the answer. Some people may have forgotten but quasi-space exists and connects different universe.  The Orz, for instance, are already from a different universe.  The Androsynth of the Ur-Quan universe were destroyed (we think) by the Orz.

A lot of our time (and budget) has gone into developing future tools that will make it relatively easy for us, modders, and others to create their own universes that they can share and that other players can thus visit.

So assuming Paul and Fred (the creators of the Ur-Quan universe races and lore) are able to work on their creation again it could be presented to the user at start-up where they are picking which universe they want to play. 

So picture this UI:

You start up Star Control and one of the menu items is "Multiverse".  You click on that and you see various universes we've made (DLC, expansions, whatever) along with universes other players have made and put up via Steam workshop (Firefly, Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, whatver people come up with that the player has already downloaded).  Fans of Star Control 2 might want to download the Ur-Quan series like "Ur-Quan War I: Alliance of Free Stars, Ur-Quan War II: Kohr-ah", and so on).

 

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July 11, 2016 5:34:11 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Frogboy,


Quoting Awkbird,

I get the whole multiverse concept that is being established and it makes sense; it actually is reminiscent of Star Trek to me. Many of the stories weren't really serialized in nature, but often disconnected from one another narratively and could exist as separate stories from one episode to the next. However, I remain curious about the relationship that Stardock intends to have with Toys for Bob and how it will be actually come to fruition to be realized, given the nature of how things work in the industry.

It's been acknowledged a few times (above, for example) that the idea is to reestablish the franchise in a way that would allow Paul Reiche to return to and continue the original story, but it's also been inferred by both sides that they can't participate in outside projects for any given reason. Perhaps primarily due to TFB's parent relationship with Activision.

Even though they are technically outside developers and have worked on a variety of IPs, I've gotten the sense over time that they aren't really at liberty to pick and choose the projects they want to work on and have sort of had to pick their battles in terms of matching their strong suit of talents with what the publisher wants to sell. And Activision is more than happy to sell Skylanders product because it's a freaking cash cow and I think they're going to milk it long and hard until it's not worth milking anymore.

That being said, they're basically rolling in Skylanders cash, so you can argue that anything outside of that IP (especially revisiting a 25-year old forgotten franchise) would be a passion project for TFB and not something they would earn much money on, legal issues aside. So they don't really have a financial incentive to participate. And with the amount of time they spend developing Skylanders, I don't think they have a minute of time to spare either. Assuming they did, would they just be using the same set of tools we'll have to create their own 'verse and release it as a paid DLC package?

This ambition of the creators returning to their property is super and welcomed by all, but how do you intend for it to be articulated in a realistic way? I really do want to believe it could be a thing, but I don't understand how it's going to happen or what form it would take.

P.S. I really appreciate as much "rambling" on this subject as possible. 



Excellent.

Now, bear in mind, everything I say may become outdated. Even during the Founder's program, a lot of our views have changed based on persuasive arguments written by the founders.

Now one of the things to understand about Star Control is that ultimately, it is a game about the player controlling a ship with a crew that is exploring the galaxy,  meeting aliens, getting into battles, exploring planets and finding new friends, allies, crew, and equipment. That is the core of Star Control.

In order to do Star Control correctly, we have ultimately decided that the stories have to exist within their own separate universe within the overall Star Control universe. 

Star Control 2 already provided the answer. Some people may have forgotten but quasi-space exists and connects different universe.  The Orz, for instance, are already from a different universe.  The Androsynth of the Ur-Quan universe were destroyed (we think) by the Orz.

A lot of our time (and budget) has gone into developing future tools that will make it relatively easy for us, modders, and others to create their own universes that they can share and that other players can thus visit.

So assuming Paul and Fred (the creators of the Ur-Quan universe races and lore) are able to work on their creation again it could be presented to the user at start-up where they are picking which universe they want to play. 

So picture this UI:

You start up Star Control and one of the menu items is "Multiverse".  You click on that and you see various universes we've made (DLC, expansions, whatever) along with universes other players have made and put up via Steam workshop (Firefly, Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, whatver people come up with that the player has already downloaded).  Fans of Star Control 2 might want to download the Ur-Quan series like "Ur-Quan War I: Alliance of Free Stars, Ur-Quan War II: Kohr-ah", and so on).

 

GAHHHH! This is amazing to hear! Which "persuasive" arguments, Frogboy?!? Make a post in the Founder's Starbase to let us know how we've shaped the development, that would be an AMAZING thread! Wee! 

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July 11, 2016 7:23:00 PM from Little Tiny Frogs Forums Little Tiny Frogs Forums

Quoting cuorebrave,

GAHHHH! This is amazing to hear! Which "persuasive" arguments, Frogboy?!? Make a post in the Founder's Starbase to let us know how we've shaped the development, that would be an AMAZING thread! Wee! 

The very long story short is that the case was made that it's important that people don't think that the Spathi and the rest are, in any way, being retconned out of existence by the new Star Control.

Thus, in the new Star Control, the Spathi and all that are all out there. You just haven't met them yet.

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July 12, 2016 9:30:04 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Frogboy,


Quoting Awkbird,

I get the whole multiverse concept that is being established and it makes sense; it actually is reminiscent of Star Trek to me. Many of the stories weren't really serialized in nature, but often disconnected from one another narratively and could exist as separate stories from one episode to the next. However, I remain curious about the relationship that Stardock intends to have with Toys for Bob and how it will be actually come to fruition to be realized, given the nature of how things work in the industry.

It's been acknowledged a few times (above, for example) that the idea is to reestablish the franchise in a way that would allow Paul Reiche to return to and continue the original story, but it's also been inferred by both sides that they can't participate in outside projects for any given reason. Perhaps primarily due to TFB's parent relationship with Activision.

Even though they are technically outside developers and have worked on a variety of IPs, I've gotten the sense over time that they aren't really at liberty to pick and choose the projects they want to work on and have sort of had to pick their battles in terms of matching their strong suit of talents with what the publisher wants to sell. And Activision is more than happy to sell Skylanders product because it's a freaking cash cow and I think they're going to milk it long and hard until it's not worth milking anymore.

That being said, they're basically rolling in Skylanders cash, so you can argue that anything outside of that IP (especially revisiting a 25-year old forgotten franchise) would be a passion project for TFB and not something they would earn much money on, legal issues aside. So they don't really have a financial incentive to participate. And with the amount of time they spend developing Skylanders, I don't think they have a minute of time to spare either. Assuming they did, would they just be using the same set of tools we'll have to create their own 'verse and release it as a paid DLC package?

This ambition of the creators returning to their property is super and welcomed by all, but how do you intend for it to be articulated in a realistic way? I really do want to believe it could be a thing, but I don't understand how it's going to happen or what form it would take.

P.S. I really appreciate as much "rambling" on this subject as possible. 



Excellent.

Now, bear in mind, everything I say may become outdated. Even during the Founder's program, a lot of our views have changed based on persuasive arguments written by the founders.

Now one of the things to understand about Star Control is that ultimately, it is a game about the player controlling a ship with a crew that is exploring the galaxy,  meeting aliens, getting into battles, exploring planets and finding new friends, allies, crew, and equipment. That is the core of Star Control.

In order to do Star Control correctly, we have ultimately decided that the stories have to exist within their own separate universe within the overall Star Control universe. 

Star Control 2 already provided the answer. Some people may have forgotten but quasi-space exists and connects different universe.  The Orz, for instance, are already from a different universe.  The Androsynth of the Ur-Quan universe were destroyed (we think) by the Orz.

A lot of our time (and budget) has gone into developing future tools that will make it relatively easy for us, modders, and others to create their own universes that they can share and that other players can thus visit.

So assuming Paul and Fred (the creators of the Ur-Quan universe races and lore) are able to work on their creation again it could be presented to the user at start-up where they are picking which universe they want to play. 

So picture this UI:

You start up Star Control and one of the menu items is "Multiverse".  You click on that and you see various universes we've made (DLC, expansions, whatever) along with universes other players have made and put up via Steam workshop (Firefly, Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, whatver people come up with that the player has already downloaded).  Fans of Star Control 2 might want to download the Ur-Quan series like "Ur-Quan War I: Alliance of Free Stars, Ur-Quan War II: Kohr-ah", and so on).

 

 

I think FREAKING AWESOME is a better stance on this.  It is well known that I am a die hard Star Control fanatic, having played this as a young gamer it had profound influence on my gaming life, and I am a stickler for all things Star Control.  I cannot agree more with this.  Star Control is Star Control, as long as it is made and presented in a way that will feel like Star Control, and will make the Star Control fans happy.  You have a ship, you have good and bad aliens, you explore, collect resources, get new tech, upgrade your ship, and save the galaxy from certain destruction....that is Star Control.  With TFB being so busy with the success of Skylanders, Star Control is most likely on the back burner of stove that is located in a remote cabin on in the farthest state from TFB.  But, it is still simmering, and will always be their pride and joy, and it is up to us to keep the pot simmering while they are not able to.

Frogboy, I know you and the rest of the team will do Star Control homage, and the justice that it needs for the fans who have been waiting over 20 years for this, myself included.  While you may not be able to include any original races in the new game, simply your endeavor in making this game is enough for me.  IF you provide full modding support, or DLC packs like you mentioned in a "multiverse", than this solves all the problems and questions in the other posts.  You can make the new "original" game, and we, the fans, gamers, and modders such as myself, can make the other "content", which may include the original races which you guys cannot "officially" include due to the legal reasons.  I personally contacted Paul and Fred years ago when I started the 7 Deadly Sins mod for SOASE with Star Control races and ships included, and they were all for it, and completely supported me.  I would assume they are still ok with modders using their IP and content, as it only perpetuates their beloved creation.

Simply put, can't wait for the new Star Control.  I signed up right away as a founder.  The saying goes, if you make it, I WILL MOD IT.

I'll support you guys in anyway I can.

DANMAN

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