Unknown_Hero

Join Date 07/2007

+106

[Question] Techs Specializations

Quote from this post:

https://forums.galciv3.com/464227/get;3542824

What will you do for all the players who do not like the latest modifications on the unique specialization choice for technologies?

Modify the game (by modding) is not a solution, because they can not do it / do not want (and it will be difficult due to frequent changes to the game), and wait for a hypothetical mod is not very practical.

They just want to play the game the way they want without complication.

Your opinion on this?

A simple solution would be to make alternative tech trees, and add an in game option to load these alternative tech trees at start of the game.

There is no need to make additional coding for the collapsible boxes.

Simply remove all the "3 in 1" boxes, and put the specialization techs in the trees as normal techs in new tech branches.

This should be fully supported by Stardock, and adjusted with all the changes done in the following versions of the game, so, the game is fully compatible if the players want to use the Metaverse system implemented in the game.

Your thoughts on this?

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econundrum1

Join Date 04/2007

+36

Wow this dead horse is still being whipped is it? I though stardock had already stated their position on this in the last thread they don't intend to do anything about it.

The last post I was involved in on this about 80% of people in the thread weren't bothered or liked the way the game limited specializations though many of us also said they could be made more meaningful and I'm sure there will be more balancing and tweaking and keep in mind that this was in a thread started by Beta players who had played the game without this feature for months and for the majority of players it will just be the way the game works, I'd be surprised if 1% of players who play the game after it launches are bothered by this.

They have said that to make it optional would require more development effort than many people think and they have better uses for that development time than something only a tiny number of players care fanatically about.

Modding certainly is a solution and I'd be willing to bet you one of the people obsessed with this does mod it within a week of release, (in fact they already have I seem to remember from another thread). Yes as the game changes that mod like many others will need to be maintained but if people care enough they will.

So yes I believe their previous answer was that they don't intend to make specializations optional and I doubt starting another thread on the subject will change that.

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I don't know how much time is needed to adapt alternative technology trees, either "manually", or with an "automatic program" (per example, "remove all the "3 in 1" boxes, and put the specialization techs in the trees as normal techs in new tech branches"), or any other solution.

What is the best solution???

Consider an example. (All numbers are for explanation only)

25 % of people: I love it, great game!

25 % of people: I don't like this... ...and there is no option to change it... ...so this is not a game for me... ...next!

15 % of people: I don't care.

9 % of people: I have no opinion.

7 % of people: I play only Strategy Boardgames.

6 % of people: I love icecream.

5 % of people: I want multiplayer. (1.95 % core multiplayer gamers, 2.95 % just to try it, 0.1 % oops! I miss click)

1 % of people: I will mod it anyways.

1 % of people: And where is this... ..."Modding"... ...is the word that you said? ...button, so I can play the game?

1 % of people: I want carrier.

1 % of people: What is a tech tree?

1 % of people: I want turn based tactical combat.

1 % of people: What are you talking about?

1 % of pe... LET ME ALONE!!!

2 % of rounding error.

The last ones are just for kidding.

Is it better to satisfy a specific type of players? <-- this is an exclusive choice.

Or,

Is it better to satisfy as much types of players as possible? <-- this is an open choice.

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Larsenex

Join Date 04/2009

+212

The 'best' solution is to adapt and learn to play with it regardless of how you feel. If you are not willing to mod it or install a mod to change it your ONLY recourse is to play it as it is.

Stardock has stated it will not change the trees.

Put me in the camp for specialization lockouts. They make the game better for me at least. Hell, even the ideologies should be locked out but lets just keep it the way it is!

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I don't like collapsing specializations but can live with them if they are done well. My issue with the implementation of "specializations" in GalCiv3 is that most of them are not special and the ones that are, are absolutely not the ones you should restrict. About half of those, like specializations types specifically said extreme worlds and invasion types should not be specializations because restricting those are too restrictive and not at all fun. This is my view of all of the "specializations" in the game as currently implemented. There was talk of balancing them however that has not happened in the last few weeks since the announcement and here we are a week from release and they are still just as unbalanced and to me immersion breaking.

If the specializations actually changed how things worked, in other words special, then I can see the point of restricting them however every single one is an optimization, things you expect to improve in the next version of almost all devices and machines we use in modern life. What I don't understand is how so many people think this improves the game or creates hard choices. To me all of these arguments are simply catch phrases of lazy designers, people who want simple choices and those who just don't want to think more deeply than do I want a, b or c then move on. Collapsing specializations of optimizations removes a deep layer of strategy from the game and absolutely shreds immersion. Also I prefer fast technological progression on the largest map I can get so removing 108 options from my tech tree means I will likely finish the tech tree well before I finish the game.

It doesn't quite break the game for me but really hurts my enjoyment of the game.

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Lavo_2

Join Date 05/2010

+112

Quoting kestlstw,

reply 4

About half of those, like specializations types specifically said extreme worlds and invasion types should not be specializations because restricting those are too restrictive and not at all fun. This is my view of all of the "specializations" in the game as currently implemented.

Seconding; making the extreme world and invasion types a specialization is too much imo.

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DerekPaxton

Join Date 03/2003

+309

This isn't a support issue.

That said I do agree that extreme world unlocking shouldn't be a specialization.

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Quoting Lavo_2,

reply 5

Seconding; making the extreme world and invasion types a specialization is too much imo.

I think extreme worlds should be changed entirely. A synthetic race such as Yor should always be able to flourish or adapt to barren worlds far better than any organic race etc pp. So in a way all races could be able to do research to colonize all worlds but only those that have a natural affinity to this surrounding should be able to master it, increasing their potential to 100%.

I think this would only be fair and also immersive from a lore point of view. I totally dislike the jack-of-all-trades philosphy where anybody can be anything if just the research output is right. The time in which the game is played simply doesn't justifies these enormous changes. Besides, I really like it that there is stuff that only Race X can do but Race Y or Z can't do it or only very limitedly which means they'll have to find other ways to grow or expand. Such mechanics actually put a player into a scenario that is difficult to come by, it enforces a player to think and try obnoxious methods, and if they don't suit - you'll loose. I expect this from a good strategy game.

Of course there's people who will disagree with me on this. People that make up their strategy even before turn1 and who probably shut down the game in a nerdrage if they encounter anything unexpected^^

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econundrum1

Join Date 04/2007

+36

I think it very likely although they don't intend to remote specializations, which is what setting it back to the way it was really does in essence since if you can take all of them they might as well be normal techs. They will make further passes at balancing them and adjusting what is and isn't a specialisation.

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alphaprior

Join Date 02/2006

I hate specializations and I haven't played the game since they were added. I have been waiting for a mod but unfortunatelly I'll have to do it myself at least I will try...

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