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pacov's League of Legends general discussion thread - strategies, etc #3

By on June 6, 2014 4:53:00 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

pacov

Join Date 02/2008
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Update 5/5/2016 -Stream is back!

 

Well, I started a thread back in Dec 2011 that’s seen a lot of activity (some 922,000 views over the course of a few years apparently...).  That thread had a good deal of tips/strategies/discussions about League of Legends from new and old players alike.  You can find the previous thread (now archived) here:  http://forums.joeuser.com/413863.  I think its time to start fresh with a new thread.

What’s this thread all about?
For those that followed the previous thread, the type of content you see here will be fairly consistent to what you are used to.  Please consider this a place to discuss LoL related content as you like.  I'll do the same and treat the thread as a blog as well where I talk about what’s going on with me in LoL.  Feel free to jump in and join the discussion if you like.

Quick background on me
I played a lot of Demigod as pacov/cheesuscrust. Back in August 2011, I started getting heavily involved in League of Legends, and folks from the community were kind enough to help me figure things out.  I play LoL most nights, stream, make videos and it’s my main gaming interest.

Some links 

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December 10, 2015 12:51:29 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Utility, Damage, Mobility

Pick 2

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December 10, 2015 2:00:02 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
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December 10, 2015 3:26:38 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

She's a mobile Zyra, good ones already wreck team fights.

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December 10, 2015 3:41:12 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting pacov,
I wonder what change they will make to cause it to be less desirable to APs in other lanes and if that wrecks support utilization.

They probably will have to make some changes and maybe not just because AP Mids like the item.  The active is really really good and the gold gained over the game is pretty crazy for Supports that use it well.

I played Support Zyra the other day with Thunderlord's and Frost Queen rush.  I ended up doing the most damage in the game and 1v1'd the enemy Fizz at one point.  Of course my Normal MMR is crap right now so it's probably not a good example.

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December 10, 2015 3:54:53 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I would assume that Frost Queens and Thunderlords are both getting nerfed next patch.  They are both pretty op right now.

I was watching Sneaky's stream last night and there were 8 people with Thunderlords in game.  The only people who didn't have it was a tank support who took Bond of Stone (the enemy Thresh took Thunderlords btw) and Sneaky, who accidently took the wrong masteries and meant to take Thunderlords.

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December 10, 2015 4:31:12 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting Thundercles,

played Support Zyra the other day with Thunderlord's and Frost Queen rush.

yah - did the same on morg and had very similar results.  Made like 1200 gold on the item from its on hit gold and had close to highest dmg on champ.  

 

I did a little math re: renekton w/ thunderlords.  It's weaker and weaker feeling early... by like level 5-6 theres really no comparison.  I think you guys are right and that it will get nerfed.  Wonder what the next goto will be...  

 

oh and did we confirm that poppys shield thing stops zac's e?

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December 10, 2015 5:41:02 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Poppy's shield does stop Zac E, I played against one last night and was able to consistently block his engage. It also blocks bards tunnel, if you touch someone going through it, it will pop them out midway

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December 11, 2015 8:58:05 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

fixed

 

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December 13, 2015 11:33:39 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

quick vid from tonight when folks were getting a little frustrated - should be live in a few min.  Think we had a few pretty easy wins anyway.

description in vid.

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December 14, 2015 3:58:34 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

An Essence Reaver Jinx and a Trinity Shen?  I hope you did a nice thing and linked them the new version of Championify after the game.

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December 14, 2015 8:09:34 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

They were the real mvps.  

 

been playing quite a bit of that witcher 3 lately - really good game.

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December 14, 2015 9:18:10 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Saw this today.  Visual guide to what the keystone masteries look like in action:  http://imgur.com/a/VPXR9

 

A little while back, I decided I'd spend a bit of time working on my top laners... preferably in the form of top laners that would very rarely be banned or picked.  I decided to key into renekton and irelia.  Currently focusing my efforts on renekton.  

Anyway, my primary source of "learning" is coming from SoloTopRenekton.  He has guides that were up-to-date in the new season and discussed in quite a bit of detail why he liked specific masteries in this season, which was a really good starting point anyway.  Before 5.24, he was running 18/0/12.  Now he's either set in on 12/18 or is still testing/experimenting.  The guy also streams a bunch, but with lower viewership 200-1000.   

Anyway, I tried a bunch of experimentation already with 5.24.  I started with 18/0/12, then 0/18/12, then 12/18/0.  I'm finding the most value from the standard 18/0/12 though, skipping on thunderlords in favor or more consistent damage with the expectation of multiple combo rotations in < 20 sec.  What I'm finding to be INCREDIBLY strong as a mastery at least on top laners - 1 point in that resilience or w/e mastery in the last tree.  It's the one that gives you 200% hp regen when you cross a certain threshold along with a nonstop 50% increase in base regen.  That enables you to recover very well if you have a bad trade - but also enables you to survive all ins if you do something silly.  

re: a few things I've learned

He has a few combos and a few things to keep in mind:

  • You want to build fury stacks - ideally having at least 50% to trade
  • With ignite, you can pretty well 0/100% someone if you have max fury stacks at level 3 if you hit 3 first.  
  • He has a very safe combo against most matchups - e to dash, land an auto, w to stun, auto and or q, dash. Depending on their posture and how the trades are looking, you skip the auto after w and instead just q then dash away.  More often than not, this ends up being a hugely favorable trade.  You just retreat for a brief moment after the trade while you wait for your cooldowns and then auto a bit on creeps to start charging up your passive
  • He has a very strong combo, similar to rivens quick combo.  Strong in that there is very low counterplay.  You can do this once you have the super cheap tiamat (eg after 1st back).  E to dash in, AA, W, tiamat, AA, Q, E to dash out.  Damage is very big with thunderlords or fervor.  

So far I think I've lost lane once properly due to being a bonehead after some jungle nonsense.  Most other matchups and, considering my lower skill level with melee top laners, you might get an idea of his ease of use.  Pretty easy to win with.  So that leaves how to play things once you start bullying a ton and snowballing.  I'm finding getting rift herald very useful if you can get your jungler to swing by.  That will draw some pressure if you are still pushing top or grouping.  It's completely normal to get rift herald twice with renekton and most junglers.  

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December 14, 2015 1:40:47 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting pacov,

quick vid from tonight when folks were getting a little frustrated - should be live in a few min.  Think we had a few pretty easy wins anyway.

Did you capture the part where we had been asking to group for about 10 minutes?  Did you catch the part where we had made a clear call to group bot, but then you split push mid as support instead?  Or the part where the game really got delayed when you got caught split pushing as support the play before?

Yeah, it wasn't going to make a difference in the long run because we were playing against bads.  But the fact that we were split pushing all over the place did prolong the game by about 10 minutes.  Some of that couldn't be controlled because of Peter, but a lot of it could have been because we could have just grouped on him (which was the call in chat that we did that you overrode to split push elsewhere).

The point is that we had a fed ADC, we had been asking to group all game so we could protect said ADC, and our support (WHO IS GREAT AT PROTECTING A FED ADC) was not grouping because he wanted to split push. This was frustrating.  Did it matter in the long run this game?  No, because we were playing against Silver level players.  Does it matter in other games?  Yes.

I would prefer that you simply don't split push on support.

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December 14, 2015 2:52:25 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Krazikarl,
I would prefer that you simply don't split push on support.

Pacov is a changed man and has seen the light.

The other day Pacov was getting extremely upset with Boaz for split pushing as Support Mundo while he wanted to take objectives.  I think playing Renekton a lot and getting fed has given him a new perspective about how frustrating it is to be ahead but have your lead wasted cause a Support wants to split and leave his team to 4v5.

No way he would immediately forget how frustrating that is and regress back into Support Split Pushing so soon.  Take your filthy lies elsewhere Karl!

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December 14, 2015 3:30:19 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

yeah, that doesn't sound like me at all.  Perhaps afk dumptruck pushing and refusing to group scrambled something in your brain.  I posted the video with confidence that you folks didn't really know what also was happening at the same time that won us the game, so I thought that would be interesting.  I will try to be a little more sensitive to you folks though.  If all your agita is placed squarely on me, I'm quite confident its misplaced.  Trying really hard to figure out who else folks might have been annoyed with.  hmmm...  a mystery for another cloudy day.  

 

Anyway, TIL this: https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/3wsmtd/so_who_started_this_kog_jungle_bs/

I mean, its silly, but it makes sense that it would work.  

 

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December 14, 2015 3:47:32 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting pacov,

 If all your agita is placed squarely on me, I'm quite confident its misplaced.

Your reasoning is essentially "But I'm doing the same thing that Peterdumptruck is doing, so I don't understand why you could possibly be upset with me".

Yeah.

Anyway, you are right.  After multiple tries we finally managed to beat the silver team that we were way ahead of with the 1/1/3 splitpush involving a support splitpushing.  So yes, you did indeed manage to win the game with that splitpush, congrats.

I'm simply suggesting that it might have been easier and involved less of our time to group on Peter (as was called in chat), let the Garen TP in once the teamfight starts, and win the game with a teamfight that they can't stop.  Instead it took us like 5 attempts to splitpush before we finally got one to work.

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December 14, 2015 4:00:38 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting Krazikarl,

I'm simply suggesting that it might have been easier and involved less of our time to group on Peter (as was called in chat)

Called by me, incidentally. 

If you can get over the pacov split push at some point in the game bit, as exciting as that is, I actually think I made a pretty good decision at the end based on all of the variables.  High probability of us taking extreme damage if clustered or getting wiped. Sona with ult/ign, mikael.  Shen with ult, their adc, that actually was fed.  Consider what the next fight would have looked like if we were relying on garen to tp down after maybe taking an inhib.  Splitting to a skirmish keeping them isolated seemed like a better call to me anyway.  I don't see many scenarios where cow is still alive even with me being perfect peels/mcCC guy in that setup.  

Magical world = where we realize much earlier that the we need to group on PDT if we want the game to end.  I'll toss in that in that world I don't split push a wave or 2 for for 25 minutes.  

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December 14, 2015 5:20:12 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting pacov,

If you can get over the pacov split push at some point in the game bit, as exciting as that is, I actually think I made a pretty good decision at the end based on all of the variables.

Are you joking?

They had a Shen/Kha.  You know what they are good at?  Scrambling, split pushing games.  Thats why they were able to make a comeback despite being way down and being outright bad players.

We had a teamfight/seige composition with stuff like Trist/Morgana/Malzahar.

We MURDER THEM BY AN OVERWHELMING MARGIN in any teamfight.

Also, split push Morgana, Malzahar, etc are not things.  Especially against Kha/Shen.  Please stop trying to justify that.  You are a support.  Don't split push.  Group.

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December 14, 2015 7:40:11 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

HaHaHaHaHa!

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December 14, 2015 8:13:42 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

oh - and blow it out your butt split push whiners.  

Quoting Krazikarl,

Your reasoning is essentially "But I'm doing the same thing that Peterdumptruck is doing, so I don't understand why you could possibly be upset with me".

Except my reasoning is that I didn't do anything like lord PDT. My reasoning is that you kiddos imagined shit that didn't happen, then complained like it did.  Hence you are pissers. Complain if I'm out of line.  Expect a big FU if I'm not and you act like i am.  

17:12-18:22 (push 1 and 1/2 wave and I'm on the enemy turret), split and get bot turret while our guys take mid turret - correct most optimal play, also good.
32min, all dead or at base on our team, I'm still up so I stay in lane, then die like tardo. pacov takes credit for 1 mistake. we own all objectives during this time window and have the only side we will make a play on lit up like christmas.  Pressure lost due to my bad death tho.  

That covers the entirety of anything even remotely like split pushing.

game ends 38 min or so.

So, wah pacov actually did split push once and got team a tower while we simultaneously took mid after carrying the shit out of the game up to that point.  Wah pacov did die, while the rest of the team was dead, after getting vision on everything and us owning all objectives.  But not split pushing... just hanging around like a dick when I should have left.  That bits my bad.  Toss your broken record out a window.  

 

oh and change on PBE - Frost Queen's Claim

  • Unique Passive - Tribute is now disabled for 12 seconds after killing a minion.
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December 15, 2015 12:07:35 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

bumped post above for edits including karls post /r para after.  I have a few more thoughts, but I'm going to bed.

 

I guess I can summarize quickly.   We are pals for a bit.  I accept criticism and have found split push criticism on me as support valid AND actually appreciated. worth pointing out and calling me out.  I do stupid shite from time to time.  If you decide that ANYTIME you see me somewhere where you don't expect me and are tilted because of some other player...well... I will call that out.  It's worth thinking for a moment what's actually happening instead of FUCK PACOV IS SPLIT PUSHING CAUSING THIS PAIN.  Highlights of your excellent decisions will be showcased the next time I'm called out and its dumb as fuck.  Just maybe keep in mind we haven't played with the petes in a bit and you might be more frustrated by that...

 

 

topic im more interested in - hedgie - if you around, you have any tips on rene?  I know you played him a bit in the past.  

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December 15, 2015 1:37:13 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

i  do agree that he's pretty straightforward. His laning isn't quite as absurd as it used to be, but you can still get easy level 3/6 kills if your opponent doesn't respect you.

While Thunderlords is OP and probably the best keystone this patch, i still think that Fervor will be the best for him once everything gets balanced out (and the fact the flat ArP in Cunning >>> ArP in Ferocity since the buff which was also pretty dumb). i've been going the +200% regen mastery, but, admitably, i don't play a lot so not sure how valid that decision is


He's pretty  flexible  item-build wise. Make sure you do the "Hydra Swap" build path... build Ravenous then immediately switch to Titanic once you finish it. i think you have to recognize when to build more damage, when to build more tank, etc. Building full-damage feels good, and it works great when you are SoloRenekton but can obviously backfire until you have a lot of reps  on him and know your midgame teamfight  limits well.

i think a lot of the  difficultly to play him comes down to "macro" play. It can get too easy to pat yourself on the back "wow i was 30 CS ahead, got /both/ towers, and 3 kills and my noob team still fed!" when being ahead is somewhat to-be-expected as Renekton.

Of course, Renekton scales much better than he used to, but you still need to do more than just transition "decently". You need to make sure you pressure the enemy team thru the midgame and really leverage it out when you are your strongest and most ahead. Learning how to focus that leverage is what makes him a great toplaner for novices since winning lane is relatively easy, you can spend the rest of your focus + learning efforts on your mid-game macro plays and rotations.

 

 

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December 15, 2015 11:50:41 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

i've been going the +200% regen mastery, but, admitably, i don't play a lot so not sure how valid that decision is

fair enough - you are lined up or at least were on the last patch with a solo renek main in higher elo- def feels good on him anyway.  Need to check if he's given up on that or not.

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

Of course, Renekton scales much better than he used to, but you still need to do more than just transition "decently". You need to make sure you pressure the enemy team thru the midgame and really leverage it out when you are your strongest and most ahead. Learning how to focus that leverage is what makes him a great toplaner for novices since winning lane is relatively easy, you can spend the rest of your focus + learning efforts on your mid-game macro plays and rotations.

good tips, thx.  Working hard to figure out a good balance with getting multiple rift heralds to get other lanes going.  

 

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December 15, 2015 12:19:37 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting pacov,

If you decide that ANYTIME you see me somewhere where you don't expect me and are tilted because of some other player...well... I will call that out.

I just pulled the stats from that game.  At the point in the game when you decided that we couldn't win a teamfight away from towers, we were up about 17k gold.  That would be about 50k gold to about 67k gold.  And we probably had a better teamfighting team while they had a better split pushing team.

Now, if you think that my belief that the team that is up 17k gold will easily win teamfights is being tilted...ok then.  But thats where we are I guess.

So you called for a group bot in chat, then headfaked us and split push mid while the people who followed your call got killed bot.  Yeah, that's frustrating.  Note that none of this has to do with being frustrated with Peter - you need to stop trying to shift blame on him.

And yeah, I do think that people are joking if their solution to being up 17k gold with Morgana/Trist/Malzahar is "split push with support".

 

Quoting pacov,

Highlights of your excellent decisions will be showcased the next time I'm called out and its dumb as fuck.  

Note that nobody called you out for the multiple times you got caught split pushing earlier.  It was only after you called for a group, ran the other way, then everybody who followed your call got killed that people got upset.  Given that your reasoning was "I didn't think that we could win a teamfight up 17k gold", I think that you are being a bit unreasonable here.

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December 15, 2015 12:39:10 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Poppy got a hotfix buff.  E range is up.  Pretty minor buff, but that should help a little.  Pretty sure they need to do quite a bit more if she's supposed to top (don't think she is - 43.6% w/r).  44.3% are jung.  43.9% support.     Really underwhelming atm. I think the main issue is that she's such a niche pick that you'd probably only want to pick situationally and folks are just playing her to try her out.  

Quoting Krazikarl,

I do think that people are joking if their solution to being up 17k gold with Morgana/Trist/Malzahar is "split push with support".

who had that gold and who was split pushing, karls?  I wasn't split pushing anyway.  Garen was split pushing on that final push.  Which, in my mind, is all well and good.  We give them one clustered target and xerath gets quite a bit of poke down.  Which shouldn't be all that surprizing considering the complete lack of MR on our team.  Complete as in ZERO MR items.  So, near enemy base, garen split and would have either rush down to us or take the time required for TP, xer can safely do quite a bit of damage at ranged, sona with the tools to cc and break cc.  Anyway, it seemed to me that splitting folks up was a better call than a fight where we lose our adc for sure.  Once the adc is dead, malz is focused and destroyed while he presses R and stands in place with shen/kha, etc.  

We were def ahead A LOT in money, but I still think splitting those fellas up gave us a higher potential to win.  I'm fine with saying that might not have been the case, though.  I just don't think you are respecting the damage that xerath was putting out.  

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