Aloriel

Join Date 03/2005

[0.91] Spell of Mastery too early!

Make it later in the tech tree please.

I really feel that the spell of mastery is too early. I can't imagine a game where I am able to do the epic quest, simply because the Spell of Mastery becomes a crisis while my armies are merely "Strong". I am forced to defeat most or all of my opponents, even on a large map, just to prevent the Spell of Mastery from being cast.

It's not as if I'm losing either. I am dominating the game (on normal). I would just rather win by another method this game because the last several games were Spell of Mastery victories. Right now, I have to cancel an alliance with Procipinee because she has 3 of the towers up. I have to defeat her now. Her score is something like 50ish, while mine is 190ish.

It's just a matter of time before Yithril does the same, then Kraxis, then Tarth... etc. I'll have to squish them all one by one (or several at a time), just to prevent their victory.

Please make it later in the magic tech tree.

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i agree that it should be later - or the towers spread out over several techs in the tree (maybe even techs in the warfare and civ tree to make it more of a true "research victory") - with the forge at the very end; it's not as bad as it seems, though. they will build the towers, yes, but they will probably not cast the spell immediately. i think AI factions aren't good at conserving mana. they never seem to get enough mana to actually cast the spell in my games. also, you can disable that victory condition in the game setup if you really don't like it and/or feel "forced to win" when you'd rather keep playing -there's nothing wrong with that.

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The problem is that I actually *like* that victory. I am very much a tech victory type. It's just too early in the game.

Also, it turns out you can't break alliances (I had never had the urge to do so before LOL). So, now I have to beat Procipinee to that victory.

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You can't break alliances?!?

FAIL

I agree that the tech victory should be as difficult to achieve as the conquest victory.

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I agree with this, it should be later in the tree. The AI tends to have all 4 towers built really quickly, especially on higher difficulties.

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Quoting ,

quoting post

Please make it later in the magic tech tree.

Yep, it should be at the end of the magic tree and the spell of making should cost 1500 mana and not 250.

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It's been raised before and I agree. It should be harder to achieve. Lots of options to do this:

Spread out the towers in the techtree
Raise the build and or casting cost
Push the spell of making to the end of the techtree
let it interact with the other trees
...

I would love to see some comments from Derek about this.

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I always run with spell of mastery disabled. It is poorly paced compared to all the other victories, so if enabled, it because the ONLY victory (except conquest on small maps).

There is one huge problem with disabling it though. It doesn't seem like the AI realizes it is disabled. I always encounter Resoln and several others only building conclaves, and only researching magic. Which doesn't make sense when a magic research based victory is not available, and powerful neighbors are threatening their borders.

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I have the same issue with turning it off: almost all opponents will still build those expensive Towers.

I usually turn the option off because it forces my hand, like the OP describes. Not because it's earlier or easier for me than other victories. Conquest/ Alliance victory is usually easyiest for me, followed by Quest.

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Quoting Fallenchar,

reply 8

I have the same issue with turning it off: almost all opponents will still build those expensive Towers.

I usually turn the option off because it forces my hand, like the OP describes. Not because it's earlier or easier for me than other victories. Conquest/ Alliance victory is usually easyiest for me, followed by Quest.

I agree the SoM is too easily attained, but those "expensive towers" grant you some pretty handy extra elemental shards.

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Yeah, I love the bonuses the various towers provide, so I'd build them Spell of Victory or not.

A quick recap of a suggestion I made earlier:

Spell Of Victory casting cost should scale based on the number of Elemental Shards you control versus the total number on the map. So, say if you control 50% of all the shards, your cost would be 500. If you only control 25%, your cost would be 1000. Or some other algorithm that lowers your casting cost if you control more shards.

Note that I bumped the casting cost. If you can come up with 500 Mana for the Plague (my usual course when the event comes up, this event comes up in almost every one of my playtest games BTW), coming up with 500-1000 Mana for a Spell Of Victory is appropriate. We've had several stories now of mana pools in the thousands, and as this is a VICTORY CONDITION, yeah, you should have to work for this spell.

And, yeah, the tech requirement needs reworking, so that the technology to cast this is achieved later in the tech tree. I love the towers, though, so when they appear is fine. But perhaps the actual Spell Of Making isn't available when tower #4 shows up in the tech tree, but in some later tech, say Ereog's Journal...

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I think the tech should be pushed later in the tree, the costs to build the towers at least doubled, and the spell of mastery increased to at least 1000 mana. Maybe double the casting time too.

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changelog 0.92 posted.

Has 'Book of Mastery' tech moved to 7th tech spot behind the 'Book of the Magi'

I am already liking it and I haven't played it yet.

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double post...

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Nice! They are really putting in a lot of user advice lately, especially about recurring topics. Very good to see.

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Yea, I think this is a needed change, though I'd still like to see some additional costs for casting the Spell. Maybe tie building the towers to having the pertinent shards, so that you'd have to work for the win a bit.

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i'd love to see the final battle in the forge (from the scenario) as the final part of the spell of mastery (the 0.90 version of that battle, that is - haven't played the new battle from the .91 patch yet)

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