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Join Date 08/2007
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[.80 bug] Units frequently stand on top of city, not in it.

April 17, 2013 4:49:43 AM from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Many times I'll tell my units to fight an enemy adjacent to a city.  They will sometimes (not always) finish battle and be standing on top of the city.  Problem is if there is another enemy nearby, they aren't in the city.  City is free for the taking.

I will often see my units standing in the center of a city, look at the city info on the left and see nothing is garrisoned there.

I sometimes will conquer an enemy city despite the fact he has an army "standing" on the city.  I'll take over the city, but he'll still be standing on top of it.  He'll move out of the city once I take it over...at least so far the AI hasn't attacked me when that's happened.

 

 

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Alstein
Join Date 07/2004
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Reply #1 April 17, 2013 5:20:26 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I've seen these bugs as well, I can verify all of them.

 

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tjashen
Join Date 03/2009
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Reply #2 April 17, 2013 6:15:31 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

This may be a bug, or it may be deliberate.

I.E. this is a way to 'separate' those units that choose to attack units outside of the city walls, hence they are 'outside' of the city, having went on the offensive.

I've also seen the 'lone' enemy standing on top of a city I just took.  As I remember, I was able to attack him next turn.  I'll keep an eye out for this.

And, as far as I can tell, units that remain in the defensive do not get 'bumped' out of the city if they win.

This could be yet another reason why units that attack a square should move into said square immediately upon winning.

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Lord Reliant
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #3 April 18, 2013 1:59:22 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I've encountered this problem with my own units- I've tried to garrison them, and instead they just stand on top of the city (often wasting their last movement point- argh!).

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Kestral2040
Join Date 02/2009
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Reply #4 April 18, 2013 3:53:33 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

is the city full of other units when this happens? more info on when this occurs would be very helpful

 

Thanks!

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Reply #5 April 18, 2013 4:58:40 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

This may help:

Last night, I had a full garrison - 9 units, yet my army only holds 6.  So I picked 6 units, and told them to attack the enemy which was adjacent to a city.  I picked a wrong unit and canceled combat, and noticed that the 6 I selected were standing on top of the city, the other 3 were still inside of it.  

Even though they were both in the city, they were standing as if in different spots.  I couldn't select the unit I wanted in the city with army management.  To make the unit I wanted visible to the army of 6 standing on the city, I had to select it, tell it to fight the army outside and cancel combat, so that it too was standing on top of the city.  Then the army management screen allowed me to swap around the units.

This may also be affecting it....  My units when they stood were garrisoned in the center of the city,  yet my city was big (long - manual improvement placement) and the point of contact with the enemy was with a city tile not immediately adjacent (but connected via other city tiles) to where the game seemed to be garrisoning my units in the city center.

 

 

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tjashen
Join Date 03/2009
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Reply #6 April 18, 2013 6:00:37 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I've done the 'select a stack, cancel it, but now stack is on top of city' thing once or twice.  If you aren't watching for this, it can be a problem. 

 

My solution has been to reselect the stack, click elsewhere (another square) within the city, and they will usually rejoin the city defenders (sometimes takes a few tries/clicking on different locations within city walls), IF the stack doesn't exceed city stacking limits when trying to do so.  If your city was at maximum capacity when your stack 'moved' outside, and you move another unit in/built a new unit in between, this can prevent the stack from rejoining the city. 

The 'solution' in this case (exceeding city stacking limits) is to select units in the stack individually/in smaller groups, moving them back in one by one until you hit the limit, but overall this is a bit of a chore.

 

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Reply #7 April 18, 2013 6:12:59 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Well you can make them rejoin the city before combat, the units standing on the city cannot rejoin the city after combat because they will have 0 moves -- combat always ends their turn.   It makes the city vulnerable, b/c your units are not in the city now.  Also if your army standing on the city is attacked it won't get city defenses to help it defend.

p.s. I'm not sure this is the only time this bug occurs, just describing the circumstances I last definitely encountered it.

 

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tjashen
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Reply #8 April 18, 2013 6:30:00 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting sxyz123,
reply 7

Well you can make them rejoin the city before combat, the units standing on the city cannot rejoin the city after combat because they will have 0 moves -- combat always ends their turn.   It makes the city vulnerable, b/c your units are not in the city now.  Also if your army standing on the city is attacked it won't get city defenses to help it defend.

p.s. I'm not sure this is the only time this bug occurs, just describing the circumstances I last definitely encountered it.

 

 

Not disagreeing with you at all that this is happening (once you attack, you are stuck 'outside').  The question is, is that a bug or is it deliberate?  As I pointed out before, if you left the city walls to attack a unit outside the city, well you aren't inside the city then, are you?  And if you are outside the city walls, well then you aren't inside the city to defend from other attacks.

If this is a bug, this needs to be fixed.  If it is a 'feature', this needs to be made clear in the documentation.

Again, if this is a 'feature' this is another good reason why IMHO attackers should move into the space they are attacking - which has been discussed at length in other threads already.  In this case, the current implementation is hard to see, as it is quite easy to miss units that are 'stacked' on top of cities.

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Reply #9 April 18, 2013 6:37:50 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

You are perhaps right, simply attacking from a city ungarrisons them...

I loaded a saved game, and first moved 3 units out, so I had the same number of units garrisoned as I could fit in my army.  I wasn't picking a subset; it didn't matter, they would first leave the city by standing on top of it.  Thus, even though they end their turn on a city tile, they aren't in the city anymore....  I guess that's a feature, they've left the city walls..., so they end turn outside the city.

 

 

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tjashen
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Reply #10 April 18, 2013 8:35:24 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting sxyz123,
reply 9

You are perhaps right, simply attacking from a city ungarrisons them...

I loaded a saved game, and first moved 3 units out, so I had the same number of units garrisoned as I could fit in my army.  I wasn't picking a subset; it didn't matter, they would first leave the city by standing on top of it.  Thus, even though they end their turn on a city tile, they aren't in the city anymore....  I guess that's a feature, they've left the city walls..., so they end turn outside the city.

 

 

 

Well either it is a bug (and they should be re-added to the city defenders upon winning the battle with the adjacent enemies) or it is a feature, and some effort to make the 'outside the wall' guys on top of cities easier to see might be nice...  Only the Stardock designer guys can tell us for sure...

I can really see this both ways, and understand the frustration.  Especially where we don't have true siege rules, where it's kind of hard to replicate firing from behind the safety of city walls and such... BTW, I'm more inclined to think that this a bug, IMHO.

 

Stardock guys: If this is indeed NOT A BUG, please be so kind as to make sure this is mentioned in the documentation under movement in the final release.  I can see this frustrating more than a few players.

And if it IS a bug, well we wish you well in your efforts to squash it!!!

P.S. I'm enjoying what you've all done with LH.  Almost as much fun as the first time I played the orginal E:WoM...

Nice job!

 

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Alstein
Join Date 07/2004
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Reply #11 April 18, 2013 9:21:16 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Kestral2040,
reply 4

is the city full of other units when this happens? more info on when this occurs would be very helpful

 

Thanks!

 

Sometimes, not always.

 

Sometimes I conquer a city and not all units move into the city- something I suspect is a side effect of the new fighting ends movement mechanic.

 

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Lord Reliant
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #12 April 24, 2013 8:30:18 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Looks like there's a fix for this in the .85 release!

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davrovana
Join Date 05/2009
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Reply #13 April 24, 2013 2:10:47 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

It happened to me right after reading this thread - how fortuitous. 

Exihbit A:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/amq01lghxq9tfrf/commander_on_the_roof.jpg

Save file:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6dplimb1y4okwce/For_Stardock_Units_on_City.EleSav

My Commander champion and Wallace (the dude you get from the "Letter Of Mark") were the only units in a city. A pack drake (single) got close, so I sent them to kill it, while still stationed in the city. They did. Afterwards, they were left with no movement points for the turn, and standing atop the city.

The real problem here is that these units would not join city defense, were the city attacked.

I say this, because back in FE I saw this problem - I saw an enemy sovereign just sitting, with a sweet army, on top of a city. He stayed there for oh, twenty turns. Eventually this was his last city as I eviscerated him. I attacked the city, and easily defeated his standard militia defense - he could not join the battle (rooftop vacation). 

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ElanaAhova
Join Date 09/2008
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Reply #14 April 27, 2013 9:53:02 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

So, the roof top vacation became a 'view to a kill?'  cool

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