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Internet Hate

By on January 21, 2013 2:30:58 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

NickJames

Join Date 03/2006
+4

Over the past year we`ve seen the retirement of the DR`s from Bioware and now J Wilson leaving D3.  This is troubling.  The Dr`s were forced out after the massive wave of hate towards Mass Effect 3 and the Old Republic.  The Dr`s were behind some of the greatest rpg`s we`ve ever seen.  Baldur`s Gate, Knights of the old republic, Mass Effect.  Tossed away, Driven away by hate on the anounmous internet.

 

J. Wilson, Senoir Designer on Company of Heroes, Probably the best RTS game ever made.  Was driven away from D3 by internet hate.   The level of hate and personnel insults has reached a level I`ve never seen.  I hope I never see it again.  When did buying a game entitle people to rake the creator`s over the coals whenever and how ever they want.  This is disgusting at this point.

 

What happened to people being thankful for things, Appreciating the hard work of other`s.  It might not be exactly what you wanted, You can`t appreciate the hard work in it?

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January 26, 2013 7:02:13 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,
TAO, thank you for being a great example of an internet asshole.  You are arguing against the use of a word I didn't use and attacking my "defense" of it, which I also didn't use.  Get off your high horse, you don't know shit.  Reading a few books and taking a few classes at the community college doesn't make you a civil rights leader.  All you are proving is your desperate need to feel important and righteous.  You are so desperate to make this argument, and show your moral superiority, that you stretched calling a gamer a "fucktard" into an attack on the Intellectually disabled community.  It's as asinine as calling someone racist for using the word "niggardly".   Grow up.  Want to help people who are suffering with disabilities?  Get your hands dirty and do it.  You have to be a real person.  The people I work with would roll their eyes at you and see you as the gilded farce you really are.  I may come across as a loud mouthed and opinionated asshole, and that's often the case, but I've also worked with adults and children with IDD and mental illness for almost 11 years.  And I don't mean spending a weekend here and there volunteering, I mean working with those people no one else has the heart, stomach or courage to work with.  You talk big, but have you ever held a child as he cried because the other kids have called him a retard?  I have.  Have you ever worked with adults so severely disabled they need 24 hour care to even survive?  I have.  Have you ever seen a man break down in tears because someone refused to sell him a car, just assuming it was "illegal for the retarded to drive"? I've been there.  That's just the surface, the stories get a lot darker when we bring mental illness into it.

 

Mindfulness.  Really look at why you felt so compelled to make this argument.  If all you get is that you are a righteous crusader, than you have missed a good opportunity to learn who you really are and make a change for the better.

 

I'll put aside the fact that we have no way to verify your claims, which would normally be pretty significant.

 

You are spewing quite a bit of hyperbole while accusing me of overstating an unimportant word choice. An attack on the community? Hardly. Its just amusing that you make such a big deal with the I love disabled people thing while using a word derived from a word used to attack them. You are the one who started throwing out your I dealt with horrible things stories as soon as someone mentioned you doing something inappropriate.

Instead of going much farther in being self righteous and pushing your activism cred than I did wouldn't it have been so much simpler to say, you know, you are right. I shouldn't have said that word and I will refrain from it in the future. Seeing as this is the internet and you have plenty of time to remove bigotry from your post before hitting reply, and it can't just slip out like it might in irl.

Its not like there aren't dozens of replacement words you could have used.

I used an example known even to the average person so that you could check it out for yourself. My using a personal example is just as useless as your doing so, there is no way to verify it. I have indeed dealt with young children who were called a retard by other children and were crying. Your other examples are too specific. I have seen and/or been involved in similar events.

Your niggardly example is spurious, the words do not have the same origin. In fact its likely derived from a totally different family of languages than the n-word. So in fact I see no reason to be upset about that word. Nice try.

Mindfulness. Really look at why you felt so compelled to fight the idea that you had done something wrong when its so clear that you did. Ditto on your second sentence.

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January 26, 2013 7:09:20 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
Guys, 

I don't think many of you are getting the level of hate that gets directed at people these days.

I get called "retard", "moron", "fucktard", "douchebag", etc. pretty regularly. That's nothing.

What people don't realize is that there are people out there who will put serious effort into antagonizing the people who make their games (if they're accessible). I've had people PM me saying that my kids (who they name in the email) should be "anal raped".  I've had people post my home address and hope someone "blows my brains out". I've had numerous people make reference to my wife (by name) and hope terrible things happen to her.

And mind you, I'm a little guy compared to what the guys at Bioware and elsewhere put up with. I can't even imagine the kind of insanity they deal with.

On a given day, I could list a dozen threads on various forums online that are actively discussing what a terrible human being I personally am.  And given that my day to day life is about as normal as it gets (I run a small studio where everyone gets along) one can only imagine what the guys at these big places get.  In 20 years, I've had *one* bad employee who ripped us in the media and that was enough for people to refer to me as a "rapist" in various places.

The net result is you're going to get a new generation of developers/content providers who will be savvy to this stuff and will never be foolish enough to interact directly with people. It'll all be pseudonyms where you'll have no direct access to the person behind the handle. Dummies like me come from the 90s (like the Dr's) where we talked directly, as ourselves, to our players.  That day is coming to an end.

Depends on what they ripped on you for, though, as to whether they call you a rapist or how corrosive the vitriol.

 

I've definitely complained loudly about games, Towns for example. And that was before I learned the whole game ran in the static constructor of a class and other ridiculous programming decisions. The game was released way too early, it wasn't made clear it was alpha, I only knew and didn't buy it cause I had already heard about the game on a city building games forum. But regular Steam users got crapped on. And whenever anyone complained you should have seen the rage that fan boys directed on people complaining. Yet no one that I saw was throwing profanity and death threats around. Its just a video game, who does that?

I only design games that would interest a small but generally more mature segment of gamers, so I feel pretty safe from any sort of troll rage backlash. But I suspect that anyone making games for a certain not to be named but large segment of gamers will likely get shit on regularly.

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January 26, 2013 6:51:50 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

hmmm...more Nazis.

Clearly my return to this forum was pointless and unnecessary.  I shall go haunt somewhere else.

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January 26, 2013 7:59:34 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

God, Tao, I'm just laughing at you now.  No more long rants, I'm just going to chuckle at you from a distance.  

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January 26, 2013 10:57:24 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
My threshold of hating someone would be the emails that consist of ... "I hope you get cancer and die horribly!"
 

 

Well, you did tell us playing FE would give us cancer... 

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January 27, 2013 12:05:59 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,
God, Tao, I'm just laughing at you now.  No more long rants, I'm just going to chuckle at you from a distance.  

 

I know man, its important to put on a good face when you are so wrong, to preserve your fragile ego.

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January 27, 2013 2:49:25 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
Guys, 

I don't think many of you are getting the level of hate that gets directed at people these days.

I get called "retard", "moron", "fucktard", "douchebag", etc. pretty regularly. That's nothing.

What people don't realize is that there are people out there who will put serious effort into antagonizing the people who make their games (if they're accessible). I've had people PM me saying that my kids (who they name in the email) should be "anal raped".  I've had people post my home address and hope someone "blows my brains out". I've had numerous people make reference to my wife (by name) and hope terrible things happen to her.

And mind you, I'm a little guy compared to what the guys at Bioware and elsewhere put up with. I can't even imagine the kind of insanity they deal with.

On a given day, I could list a dozen threads on various forums online that are actively discussing what a terrible human being I personally am.  And given that my day to day life is about as normal as it gets (I run a small studio where everyone gets along) one can only imagine what the guys at these big places get.  In 20 years, I've had *one* bad employee who ripped us in the media and that was enough for people to refer to me as a "rapist" in various places.

The net result is you're going to get a new generation of developers/content providers who will be savvy to this stuff and will never be foolish enough to interact directly with people. It'll all be pseudonyms where you'll have no direct access to the person behind the handle. Dummies like me come from the 90s (like the Dr's) where we talked directly, as ourselves, to our players.  That day is coming to an end.

 

That's just insane.

 I don't like how bioware went after getting absorbed by EA.  Dragon Age 2 got released not only bug ridden but completely unfinished, just straight up reusing levels without hiding it and blatantly obviously slapping together the rest of the game as well.  They paid off reviewers, which could be circumvented by user reviews...but those shady people went so far as to post reviews stellar reviews and comments posing as customers and got busted as EA/Bioware employees.  Dragon Age 2 went on to sell less copies than Dragon Age Origins. Mass effect 3's ending was just plain atrocious, plot holes, thematic inconsistency, no resolution for many many plot threads and characters, etc.  Same thing with the reviewers again.  I don't play MMO's so I don't know about that.  

 

I can say that EA took all the flak for DA2 and Casey Hudson (Executive Producer) and Mac Walters (lead writer) caught a shit load of flak for ME3 along with EA again.  The brothers never even caught the ire of the fanbase as far as I saw.  And even with all this, getting ripped off on 2 games on franchises I loved, lied to, etc. it never even occurred to me to threaten the real life/family of anybody.  Not buy future games?  Sure.  Voice my dissent?  Yup.  I can't even wrap my mind on how shitty a person has to be to do that.  What is worse is that what you say is true, and we'll all have to pay the price for it.  An age where video games are only spoken about by anonymous corporate PR people...ew.  Well, it's better than having to have your families at risk for making video games.

As an aside, would you mind if I posted this on Bioware boards?  I won't link it back to here or post your name or handle.  I just really want people to see this, to know what the future is going to look like and what the community spawned.

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January 27, 2013 9:50:49 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Go right ahead.

no matter how disappointed we are with a game, personalizing it on an individual is Wrong.

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January 28, 2013 3:13:51 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

I sort of knew that DA2 wouldn't be worth shelling out for.  I noticed soon after release it was being bundled with another game or some sort of deal/discount.  That sort of thing does tend to set off the alarm bells.

It's kinda sad that when things go wrong with a game's development the first instinct is sometimes to cover it up and deny any wrongdoing.  That just makes it impossible to ever come clean about anything without casting doubt on your previous efforts.

Don't get me wrong, there are often good reasons to keep problems out of the public light, but saying that a game is ready when it isn't, that's going to backfire.

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January 29, 2013 10:34:54 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
Guys, 

I don't think many of you are getting the level of hate that gets directed at people these days.

I get called "retard", "moron", "fucktard", "douchebag", etc. pretty regularly. That's nothing.

What people don't realize is that there are people out there who will put serious effort into antagonizing the people who make their games (if they're accessible). I've had people PM me saying that my kids (who they name in the email) should be "anal raped".  I've had people post my home address and hope someone "blows my brains out". I've had numerous people make reference to my wife (by name) and hope terrible things happen to her.

And mind you, I'm a little guy compared to what the guys at Bioware and elsewhere put up with. I can't even imagine the kind of insanity they deal with.

On a given day, I could list a dozen threads on various forums online that are actively discussing what a terrible human being I personally am.  And given that my day to day life is about as normal as it gets (I run a small studio where everyone gets along) one can only imagine what the guys at these big places get.  In 20 years, I've had *one* bad employee who ripped us in the media and that was enough for people to refer to me as a "rapist" in various places.

The net result is you're going to get a new generation of developers/content providers who will be savvy to this stuff and will never be foolish enough to interact directly with people. It'll all be pseudonyms where you'll have no direct access to the person behind the handle. Dummies like me come from the 90s (like the Dr's) where we talked directly, as ourselves, to our players.  That day is coming to an end.

 

Boom!

{THAT little boys, girls, and other types - is a trumpet sounding across the energy streams of data to strategically withdraw in the face of a Mindless Horde of Invisible Psycho Babbling Gurglings.}

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January 30, 2013 3:09:50 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

yeah that thread lasted all of 3 hours before getting locked for "Inappropriate discussion topic" with no details.

 

Seems kind of...odd.  Ah well.

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January 30, 2013 6:15:19 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting PlayerJuan,
yeah that thread lasted all of 3 hours before getting locked for "Inappropriate discussion topic" with no details.

Seems kind of...odd.  Ah well.

I think Biowares forums have dealt with enough retardedness that they probably don't want it to start up again, whether well intentioned or not.

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February 1, 2013 1:29:47 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
What people don't realize is that there are people out there who will put serious effort into antagonizing the people who make their games (if they're accessible). I've had people PM me saying that my kids (who they name in the email) should be "anal raped". I've had people post my home address and hope someone "blows my brains out". I've had numerous people make reference to my wife (by name) and hope terrible things happen to her.

 

Some people have way too much time on their hands. Wow. I'd say, "I hope you're not serious" but I know you are. The west has a serious culture problem, and this is exacerbated by the lack of accountability [ie: being punched in the face] on the internet. Have you considered vigilantism? I'll be your sidekick.

 

Quoting Frogboy,
Dummies like me come from the 90s (like the Dr's) where we talked directly, as ourselves, to our players. That day is coming to an end.

 

Don't stop talking to us Froggy ;_;

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February 1, 2013 11:03:17 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

We can start a side conversation...

J Wilson's departure seems to be more of the "Diablo III did not perform as expected, and I better GTFO before Path of Exile launches open beta because it is 10x a better ARPG than DIII will ever be" variety.

We can verify the truthiness of this statement by seeing how well a DIII expansion sells. DIII did so well on name alone, but I knew it was a pile of crud long before the demo by following the dev diaries. (PS I am a die hard DII fan, and still play a hardcore necro up to nightmare on the ladder around once a year)

Now back on topic

Head on the pike mentality... it was done because it works... making an example out of someone will not endear you to the people who already hate/fear/loathe you.. but it will make them think twice about launching an attack on you. It's a convenience thing I guess, if you can look at it dispassionately as a tool without succumbing to being a tyrant.

This kind of crap always brings me back to a quote from Illusions by Richard Bach.
“Live never to be ashamed if anything you do or say is published around the world -- even if what is published is not true.”


I look at it as more of a mental prep for yourself not to do anything stupid when you are feeling the rage at the peanut gallery.


Before this, you should have seen me run my mouth at all the hate I got just by being a Total Annihilation columnist at the official Cavedog.com website. (this is not even a serious matter, and I was receiving "Go kill Yourself Idiot" fan mail) Good times.

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February 1, 2013 11:29:45 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/09/28/trent-oster-thinks-fans-negativity-and-ea-drove-muzyka-and-zeschuk-from-bioware/

 

Take that for what its worth I guess.  Seeing the Dr`s leave was a big blow for me.  This is my favourite hobby and the first PC game I ever played was Baldur`s Gate 2.  I don`t want to see creative and talented people driven away by this.  I honestly don`t know what to think at this point.  I liked ME3, I thought it was the best of the series.  I didn`t have a problem with the original ending.  There was one part of it where I thought WTF!?!  It`s Bioware`s game.  They crafted the journey and they can craft the ending any which way they want.  I loved it.

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February 2, 2013 12:05:24 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
It'll all be pseudonyms where you'll have no direct access to the person behind the handle.

 

I fully support this.  I don`t need to know the dev`s actual name.  The police learned this lesson when dealing with the Hell`s Angel`s.  The investigating officer`s signed they`re real names to warrent`s and paper work associated with the cases.  The HA`s used intimidation against the officers`s family`s to back off cases.  This is no different.

 

I think all Dev`s should appear as an avatar only.  I`m only interested in their thoughts on the product, I don`t need or want to know anymore then that.

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February 2, 2013 9:33:06 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

What drives talented people away from the industry is publishers and their ridiculous rules and standards and pathetic compensation. The number of indie games I've bought by 2 or 3 guys quitting the industry and mortgaging their house to make a game that's actually cool is enormous. And kickstarter certainly backs up this theory.

Froggy isn't the only one spilling the beans on industry contracting tactics among other things. Plenty of devs have come out to talk about this bullshit.

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February 6, 2013 1:19:21 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

J. Wilson really destroyed the D3

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February 6, 2013 2:22:03 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting MonsterMMORPG,
J. Wilson really destroyed the D3

Jay Wilson was part of a team that agreed on what needed to be done and they did it.  He did not destroy anything.

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February 7, 2013 5:12:17 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The simplest answer is that humans are naturally inclined towards being jerks.

 

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February 9, 2013 3:46:13 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Anyone else finding these arguments hypocritical?  A quick Google will reveal J. Wilson leveraged his celebrity status to shat all over his predecessor's career with hate.  When considering how small that fresh indie game company is, bad press can be devastating.  Ironically this was right after the victim's interview where the analysis of Diablo 3 was mostly neutral and respectfully professional.  Granted it wasn't exactly positive either but it definitely was not negative.  No, I am not justifying what happened but it looks like a hater got hated, see below.

 

Quoting Frogboy,
I get called "retard", "moron", "fucktard", "douchebag", etc. pretty regularly. That's nothing

Brad, have you ever wanted those haters to know what it must feel like to be on the receiving end?  Now that one does.

 

 

As for Bioware, the finger was pointed at EA.  The DRs have already made their money, a lot of money.  They took their money and ran.  One of them hinted a future career in special interest.  Which we all know exactly what this world needs is more special interest. /sarcasm

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February 9, 2013 5:43:13 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Thormodr,
The simplest answer is that humans are naturally inclined towards being jerks.
Nope. They are not.

They are educated to be like that.

The natural human is a very social being. He has the ability to feel others emotions by imagining having lived through the same. It's called empathy.

But humans are told to be in rivalry with everyone else. If they distrust eachother they are easier to control.

The bad news is: It spans everything. It starts at your name, goes over your gender, your age, you confession, your nationality your memes. Everything is done to make you realize how you are different from others and prevent you from realizing from what you have in common with others.

If you want to break free from such thinking patterns, I suggest you avoid any kind of manipulative mass-media.

Stopping to watch TV, in a hindsight was a very good decision to get other thinking patterns. Of course I still have to deal with people whose minds are defiled but more often than not they will adapt to the non-provocative, non-distrust, non-rival way I'm talking to them, as soon as they realize that there is absolutely no disadvantage in that.

So the best way of not being hated is showing honesty, respect, and transmitting empathic signals. The latter means: Say what you feel, so that others have the chance to live through your feelings.

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February 9, 2013 6:42:23 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I hate the internet.

Someone had to say it. Sorry.

 

More on topic. You are both wrong. In general humans are all wired differently. But they are also generally wired to adapt. They will try to adopt whatever behavior is necessary to succeed.

 

There is some fascinating research suggesting that children are all wired to respond helpfully to an adult in distress, even if they don't know them. It is not yet well known if they react similarly to another child in distress.

All of this behavior is mediated by treatment though, toddlers who were mistreated, primarily through neglect, may break these patters.

 

We can't know what toddlers would do naturally without a behavioral model, since babies could not survive to be helpful toddlers if they hadn't received some form of socialization and/or care.

Note that there is a distinction between being wired to be social, and being wired to be caring/empathic. Humans crave interaction, that doesn't mean it needs to be positive.

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February 11, 2013 10:17:44 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Not that I follow internet drama, but I thought a lot of the hate towards J. Wilson was because his "fuck that loser" comment referring to Brevik. That may not entitle him to death threats or other insane levels of harassment, but childish comments aren't going to earn you any friends either.

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February 13, 2013 7:21:05 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

While death threats and so on are clearly over the top, it can be ignored and brushed off as stupid kids being bored. However, the criticism for ME3, DA2 and so on is more than deserved, though I think EA is to blame more for that than Bioware. Still, they sold themselves out and let it happen.

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