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Internet Hate

By on January 21, 2013 2:30:58 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

NickJames

Join Date 03/2006
+4

Over the past year we`ve seen the retirement of the DR`s from Bioware and now J Wilson leaving D3.  This is troubling.  The Dr`s were forced out after the massive wave of hate towards Mass Effect 3 and the Old Republic.  The Dr`s were behind some of the greatest rpg`s we`ve ever seen.  Baldur`s Gate, Knights of the old republic, Mass Effect.  Tossed away, Driven away by hate on the anounmous internet.

 

J. Wilson, Senoir Designer on Company of Heroes, Probably the best RTS game ever made.  Was driven away from D3 by internet hate.   The level of hate and personnel insults has reached a level I`ve never seen.  I hope I never see it again.  When did buying a game entitle people to rake the creator`s over the coals whenever and how ever they want.  This is disgusting at this point.

 

What happened to people being thankful for things, Appreciating the hard work of other`s.  It might not be exactly what you wanted, You can`t appreciate the hard work in it?

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January 21, 2013 10:32:06 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Here you got your answer:

http://fishbowl.pastiche.org/archives/pictures/greater_internet_fuckwad_theory.jpg

It's as simple and sad as that.

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January 21, 2013 10:42:14 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

TO bad it didn't work for politicians. 

and no, not all people that are anonymous, like me, are idiots online.

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January 21, 2013 12:27:43 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Well if you make shitty stuff, expect to get hammered for it. In the case of Wilson, he did make design mistakes, not necessarily personal ones, but since he is the one in charge, he gets the blame. That's just business as usual

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January 21, 2013 1:03:46 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

This is what happens when your consumer base learns to blame others and point the finger at a scapegoat.  With most games being a team effort. you cannot say with any certainty where the fault lies unless you have detailed knowledge of the game's development process and the persons involved.

There is no personal injury from playing a defective or substandard game.  There's certainly no reason why you are compelled to run out and buy a game on release day without reading a single review, without first deciding if it's really what you're looking for, without asking your friends what they think about it.

All this uncivilised behaviour accomplishes is giving game developers more stress which in turn affects future game quality. That's what is known as a vicious circle.

And yeah, I know, preaching to the choir here, but it needed saying.

 

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January 21, 2013 2:08:38 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think I can relate.  I don't think I'll ever look at Internet communities the same after Elemental.

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January 21, 2013 2:24:45 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

This is basic PR.  When you plaster your face and name on things, you get the shit when people aren't happy in an equally personal way.  The game market isn't the most mature user base to begin with.  When you put yourself out there and do something stupid, you've earned the flack you went after.  Wilson in particular stepped in shit when he made a disparaging comment about a former Blizzard employee.  One should be smart enough to know whether a posting is public or private before saying something the rabid fans of Diablo 2 will hate you for.

 

It says something about the maturity of the victim when they're chased away from their life by a few trolls on the internet too.  Worst case scenario, you buy a gun and get good with it.  Something responsible citizens should do anyway.

 

I might have more pity for people working in the games industry these days, but the shaft they keep trying to shove up my ass is a little large.  Demos are a rarity, often coming months after release when they come at all.  DRM causes frequent hassles, some of it being downright absurd.  Games are regularly released in a downright broken and unfinished state, and usually left that way when they sell poorly.

 

Most of the grief is earned.  Perhaps misdirected, but earned.  They hype the shit out of a game, getting favorable reviews from people that make a living off being in their good graces, release their product with no way of checking it out before buying it, make returning it as big a hassle as they can, and then expect people to be nice to them when things go wrong.

 

I just stop buying things from them, some need to rage.

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January 21, 2013 2:36:43 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting psychoak,
This is basic PR.  When you plaster your face and name on things, you get the shit when people aren't happy in an equally personal way.  The game market isn't the most mature user base to begin with.  When you put yourself out there and do something stupid, you've earned the flack you went after.  Wilson in particular stepped in shit when he made a disparaging comment about a former Blizzard employee.  One should be smart enough to know whether a posting is public or private before saying something the rabid fans of Diablo 2 will hate you for.

 

It says something about the maturity of the victim when they're chased away from their life by a few trolls on the internet too.  Worst case scenario, you buy a gun and get good with it.  Something responsible citizens should do anyway.

 

I might have more pity for people working in the games industry these days, but the shaft they keep trying to shove up my ass is a little large.  Demos are a rarity, often coming months after release when they come at all.  DRM causes frequent hassles, some of it being downright absurd.  Games are regularly released in a downright broken and unfinished state, and usually left that way when they sell poorly.

 

Most of the grief is earned.  Perhaps misdirected, but earned.  They hype the shit out of a game, getting favorable reviews from people that make a living off being in their good graces, release their product with no way of checking it out before buying it, make returning it as big a hassle as they can, and then expect people to be nice to them when things go wrong.

 

I just stop buying things from them, some need to rage.

Agree 100%. There is a huge push in the game industry to specifically obfuscate the product from the consumer so that people buy it on release without having a chance to realize it blows chunks. Beta NDA, reviewer NDA and all sorts of other things. If exposing 100% of your game to players makes them run screaming then you shouldn't have made a shit game.

These people are obsessed with money and use capitalism as an excuse but then they do their fucking damndest to subvert the intended functionality of capitalism to fuck over consumers for money. I've just stopped buying any game until its been out for at least a year so that I know what I'm buying.

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January 21, 2013 4:18:06 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting psychoak,
Most of the grief is earned. Perhaps misdirected, but earned. They hype the shit out of a game, getting favorable reviews from people that make a living off being in their good graces, release their product with no way of checking it out before buying it, make returning it as big a hassle as they can, and then expect people to be nice to them when things go wrong.



I just stop buying things from them, some need to rage.

 

Quoted for truth!

 

 

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January 21, 2013 7:51:05 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

If it's true that the suits are only interested in the bottom line and they will do anything (including keeping the game under wraps until release) then whether a developer stays on or moves on to bigger and better things has little to do with the ranting of players on a forum, only on how well a game sells.

There is room for improvement on the part of game developers.  But as long as consumers keep buying games impulsively, the wrong message is going to keep reaching the suits.  A savvy gamer knows better than to buy a game without asking around, to wait for weeks or months after release until the problems have all surfaced.  Once a game has been released, there's very little that can be done to obfuscate how bad (or good!) it really is.

It's not enough to passively stop buying games and expect things to change.  You have to bring to a halt the impulsive buying habits of everyone you know.  And tell them to do the same with everyone they know.  And so on.

Honestly?  I don't think you can completely suppress that materialistic urge that most of us have.  The suits are counting on it.

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January 21, 2013 7:57:04 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting MarvinKosh,
Honestly?  I don't think you can completely suppress that materialistic urge that most of us have.  The suits are counting on it.

Especially when most of the targets are children/teens.

Have you ever tried telling a teenager to wait, or to read up on something? 

 

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January 22, 2013 2:15:31 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The reason why this happens now and hasn't happened before is simply because it is possible now. Gamers weren't any different back in the day, but was never this easy to voice your opinion.

It gives us good stuff like arab spring, but at the same time it also poisons open discussion and gives extremists too much weight.

Just like stalking and bullying is a bigger issue nowdays than before, hate fueled online lynch mobs has become more common. The idiots can connect each other and fuel each other's extreme views in ways that simply wasn't possible before.

 

Only thing you can do is to find ways to work around this. It's not going to go away, which is a shame.

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January 22, 2013 2:39:32 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think of all the idiotic things I see people on forums say all the time without realizing that they're demanding others live up to standards that they themselves are incapable of maintaining.

Nobody deserves to have hate thrown at them. These are fucking video games. If you don't like them, don't buy them. But your purchase doesn't give you the right to shit on other people.

Sorry to be so harsh on this. It just really ticks me off to see any sort of rationalization for hating on other people. It's never ok.

 

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January 22, 2013 3:10:25 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
I think of all the idiotic things I see people on forums say all the time without realizing that they're demanding others live up to standards that they themselves are incapable of maintaining.

Nobody deserves to have hate thrown at them. These are fucking video games. If you don't like them, don't buy them. But your purchase doesn't give you the right to shit on other people.

Sorry to be so harsh on this. It just really ticks me off to see any sort of rationalization for hating on other people. It's never ok.

 

 

So, so true.  

 

If I was one of the guys at Bioware, I would have told the community to go fuck themselves a long time ago.  

 

And over the years I have grown to really despise other gamers.  Racist, misogynistic, entitled, self-righteous, illogical, hyperbole spewing fucktards seem to fill so many message boards.  

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January 22, 2013 3:38:14 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,
And over the years I have grown to really despise other gamers.  Racist, misogynistic, entitled, self-righteous, illogical, hyperbole spewing fucktards seem to fill so many message boards.  

Wow, really?  

This just after 

Quoting Frogboy,
Sorry to be so harsh on this. It just really ticks me off to see any sort of rationalization for hating on other people. It's never ok.

then I am assuming you are agreeing.

Quoting Lord Xia,
So, so true.  

then you go off on a hate rant 

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January 22, 2013 3:47:40 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,

Quoting Frogboy, reply 13I think of all the idiotic things I see people on forums say all the time without realizing that they're demanding others live up to standards that they themselves are incapable of maintaining.

Nobody deserves to have hate thrown at them. These are fucking video games. If you don't like them, don't buy them. But your purchase doesn't give you the right to shit on other people.

Sorry to be so harsh on this. It just really ticks me off to see any sort of rationalization for hating on other people. It's never ok.
 

So, so true.  


If I was one of the guys at Bioware, I would have told the community to go fuck themselves a long time ago.  

 

And over the years I have grown to really despise other gamers.  Racist, misogynistic, entitled, self-righteous, illogical, hyperbole spewing fucktards seem to fill so many message boards.  

Says the ableist piece of shit. Fucktard comes from retard which when used as an insult constitutes ableism. I'm serious. How many more times do people with developmental or mental disabilities have to explain this before it sinks in.

By virtue of your ableism while attack other bigotry you now fall under self righteous as well. Also you are using illogical incorrectly.

The reason people are getting mad at devs and publishers is because of all the lying. If they would stop lying to customers for one second we could even forgive their horribly buggy release versions of their games. But they can't do it.

I won't even get into destroying amazing franchises with money grubbing free to play online versions and annoying features like the D3 auction house. And yes some free to play is fine, but so much of it is an excuse to produce garbage and content lock anything cool.

And before you say something stupid, I DON'T buy games anymore. Not until at least several months later when I can trust that the game has the features it says it does, has cleared up the bugs, and hasn't added any nasty money grubbing surprises.

I play open source games or purchase old games in my "to play" backlog.

Do you know who is entitled money grubbing "business" men who pay designers and programmers shit wages and force ridiculous crunch time and who don't let people have control over their own IPs because they know they can give an IP like Diablo to a schmuck like Jay Wilson and a bunch of ignorant people will buy it because Diablo even though none of the main creators of REAL Diablo are still there to work on it. Not that the majority of customers are even aware enough of video games to know that. Thank god for Torchlight and Path of Exile I guess.

The idea that the people with the money can impose absolutely any imaginable terms on the people with the skills to actually make something cool offends me. It offends a lot of people.

If all you did was provide capital, but you contributed nothing to the game itself and in fact likely ruined half of the game by forcing the addition of features whose sole purpose is to suck money from people who don't have a choice because their options for certain kinds of games are so limited, but you contract that you get 90% of the net profits even though you did nothing of value, you are a terrible person and you should feel terrible.

If you are a publisher whose games only make money through deception and ridiculously high value marketing budgets you deserve all the shit that people have heaped upon you and more.

The government should just cap marketing budgets at 1million dollars or 10% of the game's development cost, whichever is higher, and then we would see who REALLY knew how to make good games and dollars to donuts the customers wouldn't be flinging half the shit that companies are currently whining about because they would be too busy playing awesome games.

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January 22, 2013 4:25:16 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

When I talk about hating gamers, trust me, I am not making myself an exception.  As I have said many times, I am an asshole. Gamers, we, are a problem.

 

Mental Retardation isn't the acceptable terminology for people with mental disabilities any more, IDD is, Intellectual and Developmental Disabilities.  Retard has gone the way of older terms, like Moron, Idiot, Cretin and Imbecile.  Those were the old technical terms for people with mental disabilities, and now have moved on into general language for a stupid person.  The change will be reflected in the DSM-V soon.  Please don't get all high and mightily with me over a word like "fucktard". That was a real stretch.  I've dedicated my life to helping people with mental disabilities and illness, what have you done?   

 

And your rant about the business of games I'm not even going to touch, it seems off base to me, but I'm sure someone smarter than I can respond better to it.

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January 22, 2013 4:49:42 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

My threshold of hating someone would be the emails that consist of "You should kill yourself" or "I hope you get cancer and die horribly!" or "I hope you and your wife and kids die in agony".

 

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January 22, 2013 4:51:54 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Over the past year we've seen the retirement of the DR`s from Bioware and now J Wilson leaving D3. This is troubling. The Dr`s were forced out after the massive wave of hate towards Mass Effect 3 and the Old Republic.

 

Now, I've been following the Mass Effect controversy very loosely and the D3 one not at all, but I haven't seen any evidence (produced anywhere, not just from the OP) that Internet hostility was the direct cause of either individual's departure. From what I've seen of the haters (mostly the YouTube idiot variety, unsure if they are representative of other idiots and flamers elsewhere) most of the anger seems to be directed at EA for "not letting Bioware make the game they wanted to make" (civility and spelling added by me). I don't know what reasons they departed for, but I'm guessing based on the idiot consensus (they all seem to be saying the same thing, which is weird for flamers), that it had to do with disgruntlement and "creative differences" than with hostility from the community.

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January 22, 2013 8:19:20 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,
When I talk about hating gamers, trust me, I am not making myself an exception.  As I have said many times, I am an asshole. Gamers, we, are a problem.

 

Mental Retardation isn't the acceptable terminology for people with mental disabilities any more, IDD is, Intellectual and Developmental Disabilities.  Retard has gone the way of older terms, like Moron, Idiot, Cretin and Imbecile.  Those were the old technical terms for people with mental disabilities, and now have moved on into general language for a stupid person.  The change will be reflected in the DSM-V soon.  Please don't get all high and mightily with me over a word like "fucktard". That was a real stretch.  I've dedicated my life to helping people with mental disabilities and illness, what have you done?   

 

And your rant about the business of games I'm not even going to touch, it seems off base to me, but I'm sure someone smarter than I can respond better to it.

 

Dozens of people with disabilities have come out against the continued use of the word retard however you may feel about it as a neurotypical person. I guess the most well known example would be John Franklin Stephens. You don't get to decide that its okay to use if it doesn't apply to you. If someone who could be affected by the word decides to use it that is their personal decision and doesn't mean its okay for you to use.

If your only defense is "well that is not really that offensive, imo" you will have to search elsewhere for someone dumb enough to accept that. And using a variation of I have black friends to defend yourself, that's just pathetic. Throwing around the DSM isn't going to get you disability street cred either. Saying the DSM is going to change is like saying racism isn't a problem because corporations have sensitivity training and shit now. No.

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January 22, 2013 8:43:28 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Guys, 

I don't think many of you are getting the level of hate that gets directed at people these days.

I get called "retard", "moron", "fucktard", "douchebag", etc. pretty regularly. That's nothing.

What people don't realize is that there are people out there who will put serious effort into antagonizing the people who make their games (if they're accessible). I've had people PM me saying that my kids (who they name in the email) should be "anal raped".  I've had people post my home address and hope someone "blows my brains out". I've had numerous people make reference to my wife (by name) and hope terrible things happen to her.

And mind you, I'm a little guy compared to what the guys at Bioware and elsewhere put up with. I can't even imagine the kind of insanity they deal with.

On a given day, I could list a dozen threads on various forums online that are actively discussing what a terrible human being I personally am.  And given that my day to day life is about as normal as it gets (I run a small studio where everyone gets along) one can only imagine what the guys at these big places get.  In 20 years, I've had *one* bad employee who ripped us in the media and that was enough for people to refer to me as a "rapist" in various places.

The net result is you're going to get a new generation of developers/content providers who will be savvy to this stuff and will never be foolish enough to interact directly with people. It'll all be pseudonyms where you'll have no direct access to the person behind the handle. Dummies like me come from the 90s (like the Dr's) where we talked directly, as ourselves, to our players.  That day is coming to an end.

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January 22, 2013 9:56:19 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yet all these social media places are starting to insist you use your real name. If that ever happens I will say good day to all of them. I do not use my anonymity so I can attack others, rather to protect myself from it. This is nothing new to anyone that puts themselves in the public spotlight, and this goes back way before internet. 

I had to ROFL at Charlie Sheen on Pierce Morgan, "I don't mind that the government took away all my guns, I have a team of heavily armed men protecting me." And that was supposed to make people feel better about losing their 2nd? Please leave this comment alone as it was just to point out that nuts have been frothing over famous people since, well, forever. You jumped into the pool of slime, best get a good wash cloth and maybe swim somewhere else. EDIT: (meant to be an anonymous online DEV personality)

Why do you think Elvis faked his own death?

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January 23, 2013 9:39:44 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

TAO, thank you for being a great example of an internet asshole.  You are arguing against the use of a word I didn't use and attacking my "defense" of it, which I also didn't use.  Get off your high horse, you don't know shit.  Reading a few books and taking a few classes at the community college doesn't make you a civil rights leader.  All you are proving is your desperate need to feel important and righteous.  You are so desperate to make this argument, and show your moral superiority, that you stretched calling a gamer a "fucktard" into an attack on the Intellectually disabled community.  It's as asinine as calling someone racist for using the word "niggardly".   Grow up.  Want to help people who are suffering with disabilities?  Get your hands dirty and do it.  You have to be a real person.  The people I work with would roll their eyes at you and see you as the gilded farce you really are.  I may come across as a loud mouthed and opinionated asshole, and that's often the case, but I've also worked with adults and children with IDD and mental illness for almost 11 years.  And I don't mean spending a weekend here and there volunteering, I mean working with those people no one else has the heart, stomach or courage to work with.  You talk big, but have you ever held a child as he cried because the other kids have called him a retard?  I have.  Have you ever worked with adults so severely disabled they need 24 hour care to even survive?  I have.  Have you ever seen a man break down in tears because someone refused to sell him a car, just assuming it was "illegal for the retarded to drive"? I've been there.  That's just the surface, the stories get a lot darker when we bring mental illness into it.

 

Mindfulness.  Really look at why you felt so compelled to make this argument.  If all you get is that you are a righteous crusader, than you have missed a good opportunity to learn who you really are and make a change for the better.

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January 23, 2013 3:44:02 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

OMG! Xia is a racist!

 

Sorry.  I'm getting a little bored waiting on this bloody query to finish, I just couldn't resist!

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January 23, 2013 5:08:36 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I have seen three YouTube videos in the past few weeks that were song dedications in memoriam for the posters' departed spouse or child.

On each post there was one and on one, several, replies that questioned the "truthfulness" of the the OP and degenerated to insults directed at them over a long period of time--in one case going on for six months.

This goes beyond, "bad behavior" and reflects a high level of social dysfunction.

Kids today demand that they be "tough" and name calling and criticism on very personal levels is often the norm.  Kids are expected to "take it" from their friends and peers.  You're "strong" if you can handle it and "weak" if you let on it bothers you.

I think the internet is a mirror of this.

There is an alleged legend that in medieval Japan mothers who had no husband and wealth and had an infant they could not support would take their child to the ninjas.  In return, the ninjas would pay the mother and take the child.

The legend say the ninjas took each child and threw them in a well.  The ones who swam and kept above water were saved--the rest were left to drown

I think in a lot of ways, this is the world we are heading towards creating.  There is no patriotism or ethic or belief we hold "above others".  The self is al--so why bother with not saying whatever "I" think?  And if you can't handle it, then you are weak and it is only survival of the fittest that matters.

...it's all about me.

 

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January 25, 2013 10:21:41 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

My problem with talking about trolls on the internet is it doesn't account for that real life has just as many.

They don't really bother most of us there.  They exist.  How many gang members do you hang out with irl on a daily basis?  Thieves?  Creeps?

Here they don't have anyone to answer to except local mod populations who can do very little...which is really too bad.

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