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Alstein
Alstein
Join Date 07/2004
+55

Suggested Init change for weapons:

August 27, 2012 9:23:27 PM from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

 

 

No weapon should give an init bonus without enchantment:

bare hands should give best init

staves and daggers should also be no penalty, then swords could be -1 or -2, then move from there.

 

Basically, the real effect should be that bare hands is best for mages, to get rid of mages looking for swords and daggers.

 

 

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Alstein
seanw3
Join Date 12/2007
+141
Reply #1 August 27, 2012 10:25:21 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

This is a difficult problem to solve since attacks per round are connected to magical casting. There is no real logic behind it other than that more agile weaponry makes the motions needed for casting much easier and thus faster. A thin thread of logic to be sure. I would much rather see one last balance to weapons so that each one weighed much more. Then weapons that have bonuses to Initiative could instead weigh much less. So an unarmed mage is the best possible mage, but daggers stay useful as a quick strike weapon. 

If we are going for perfect balance, that would be a good thing to change. If we are accepting the illogical nature of the current system, just add +6 Init. to Spell Staff and make 6 more unique variations. 

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Alstein
Beric01
Join Date 01/2009
+10
Reply #2 August 27, 2012 11:24:14 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I've recently started yet another thread on this issue. https://forums.elementalgame.com/430144 People have been complaining about it for a long time. There has been no movement, so I'm guessing the devs are satisfied with the current illogical system. Really ruins the immersion.

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Alstein
Alstein
Join Date 07/2004
+55
Reply #3 August 27, 2012 11:45:56 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I think it miight be hard to get a big change in, if I was to suggest something:

 

spells would have a casting initiative.  This would determine when the spell is cast.  Flame dart might be 25 for example.  Dirge of Ceresa might be  8. 

 

Certain traits and items  might increase magical init, mostly off path of the mage.

 

This should be doable within the engine.

 

 

 

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Alstein
Tim-Bur
Join Date 11/2007
0
Reply #4 August 27, 2012 11:54:54 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Thumbs up for casting initiative!

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Alstein
ins2
Join Date 03/2011
+4
Reply #5 August 28, 2012 2:07:51 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums


I don't know about the casting initiative, but changing the weapon weights and inits is a moddable fix, yes?

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Alstein
ddd888
Join Date 04/2009
+7
Reply #6 August 28, 2012 3:47:53 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Beric01,
reply 2
I've recently started yet another thread on this issue. https://forums.elementalgame.com/430144 People have been complaining about it for a long time. There has been no movement, so I'm guessing the devs are satisfied with the current illogical system. Really ruins the immersion.

well i think they focuse on other stuff recently, like cities

 

but yeah, weapons and magical stuff and items in general could really use a hard balance pass

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Alstein
DGB246
Join Date 04/2006
+5
Reply #7 August 28, 2012 7:48:50 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I'd also like to see magic gloves as armour options. There's a whole bunch of mage gear items they could use but the -6 init penalty for staves makes them a bad pick for a mage. I agree it's kind of odd that daggers make casters quicker. Hopefully these ideas will be fleshed out further in an expansion or mod

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Alstein
seanw3
Join Date 12/2007
+141
Reply #8 August 28, 2012 7:54:28 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I would also love spells to have a difficulty. For things like Kill, you should get -20 to Spell Mastery for the resist check. I don't think we can do that with the current mechanics though.

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Alstein
DGB246
Join Date 04/2006
+5
Reply #9 August 28, 2012 7:58:03 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

@sean

 

Kill costs 300 mana, unfortunately it's another spell I'll just ignore

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Alstein
seanw3
Join Date 12/2007
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Reply #10 August 28, 2012 7:59:58 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

With -75% tactical costs, I'd cast it alot.

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Alstein
DGB246
Join Date 04/2006
+5
Reply #11 August 28, 2012 8:15:43 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

They took mantle of oceans away from empires for some reason so it's very hard to get 75% discount with death magic - if you go mage path, attunement and you luck into some robes then you would get 50%. I hope you are going to do a mod to make mantle water 3 again as I personally hate the design decesion to make it life 2 water 2.

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Alstein
Kongdej
Join Date 01/2012
+58
Reply #12 August 29, 2012 3:35:30 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting seanw3,
reply 11
With -75% tactical costs, I'd cast it alot.

*Casts Kill*...
*Casts Kill*...
Get moving already sean
 
 

Quoting ,
quoting post
staves and daggers should also be no penalty, then swords could be -1 or -2, then move from there.

Basically, the real effect should be that bare hands is best for mages, to get rid of mages looking for swords and daggers.

Another suggestion is to make staves give additional Spell Mastery, so spells cast with staff's in hand would be slower, but more powerful.
Do kind of agree with the initiative should be topped with bare hands, and go down from there, except for the feel of it (every weapon will feel like it have a penalty)
whatever the devs do about this I wont mind though.
(as long as its not something really pointless, like making sledge hammers the ones with the least weight and more initiative )

Edit: oh wow, I made multiple quotes work... dunno what happened!

Sincerely
~ Kongdej (And his innate ability to produce mana).

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Alstein
Alstein
Join Date 07/2004
+55
Reply #13 September 6, 2012 11:09:48 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

There should be magic staves that increase mastery, though at considerable expense.

 

some magic weapons could have + init bonuses, like short swords of hasting.

 

 

 

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