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Fallen Enchantress: Beta 4

By on June 29, 2012 10:46:18 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Derek Paxton

Join Date 03/2003
+118

Beta 4 

Beta 4 focuses on cities.  But that really means it focuses on the games pace.  Production, economy and research come from your cities.  When we change them we change the game.  First let's talk about a few of the design issues we have been wrestling with:

1.            Lack of city specialization.  Materials and Food are okay, but in general you want to build the same things in every city, or at least the player's preference outweighs the strategic benefit (so it feels like you just want to do the same thing everywhere).

2.            We need more improvements.  We want to double the amount a given city may have.  We want more choices, we want there to be a bigger difference between a city that focuses on infrastructure and one that produces troops.  I want a player focusing on infrastructure to never be able to run out of things to build.  And I want to do it without:

a.            Making improvements take forever to build.

b.            Making cities even larger than they already are (in fact I want to shrink cities).

3.            Basing the economy, research and production directly on population is painful/impossible when cities can grow from 1 from 600 population.  Whatever bonus we give for those resources on a 10 population city become 60 times as high on a 600 population city.  Lesson 1: To control game pace, control your ranges.

4.            City enchantments are a tightrope walk.  To good and you have to place them on every city, it becomes busywork.  Not good enough and you never use them.

 

I wish fixing it was a simple thing, but we needed a few pieces to make it all work.

 

Step 1: Starbases?

Outposts can be upgraded to give bonuses to anything in their Zone of Control.  They can boost allied units attack, reduce the attack of enemies, modify movement costs, scare away monsters, provide bonuses to the attached city, etc.  They are not destroyed when an enemy moves onto them, instead they are flipped to that enemies control and represent your control over the land itself (monsters still destroy outposts, I highly recommend you upgrade them with Wardens to keep the monsters at bay).

Outposts have a limited distance they can be built (or summoned) from each other, so you can't pepper the field with them.  But their ZoC's can intersect (with the right upgrades) and their bonuses are cumulative, allowing you to build strong defenses if you desire.

 

Step 2: Much like a bad Star Trek episode, it's all about the Queue

The production queue is a precious resource.  Everything in Beta4 builds faster, but there is a lot more to build.  As with Beta3 City Improvements and Units train in the queue, but Wild Improvements and Outpost upgrades go into the queue as well.  You can drag items around in your queue if you want to reorder them (and it remembers how much production you had on items you may move back in line).

The biggest change in Beta4 is that even though production is much faster, there are always things you want to build.  You can play as Pariden and drop outposts early on, but you will be making a hard choice to start claiming those resources vs making units or improvements in your cities.

Multiple cities are always good.  If you can defend them and you have the land to claim it's always a good option just because it gives you more queues.  The minimum distance between cities has been reduced in Beta4 to support more cities, closer together.

 

Step 3: Improvement Upgrades

In Beta4 improvements can upgrade.  Your Cleric upgrades to a Shrine which upgrades to a Sacrificial Altar (for Empire players).  Since the old improvement is replaced by the new one, we get a few benefits:

1.            City size stays relatively contained.  We added 40 new improvements and cities are about half the side they are in Beta 3.

2.            Cities look more advanced as they upgrade to higher tier buildings.  A cleric is a modest building, the Shrine is more pronounced, the artists can go all out on what the Sacrificial Altar looks like.  Upgraded buildings don't get lost in the jumble of the same buildings the rest of your cities have, they look more unique and specific to their purpose.

3.            You can't get to the higher tier buildings of particular types unless you have built the earlier versions.  You can't build the Treasury Vault unless you have gone through the economy boosting improvements on the way.  So you have to decide, do you want to build a Study, then School, then College and University?  If you do you won't be getting access to the best economy improvements without spending the time to go through the base one and their upgrades.  You are rewarded for specializing your cities and your cities build lists become very unique from each other.  Build lists also don’t become huge since you only see the highest tier you have access to (you only see the Pier, not the Dock and Harbor it upgrades to).

4.            Faction achievements and World Achievements are at the end of upgrade chains.  You can't build the Ironworks just because you unlocked the tech for it, and you can't build it in every city.  It will only show in a city that has specialized in what it does.

5.            Resource improvements upgrade too.  The first shard shrine only produces 1 mana per turn.  With the correct techs you can upgrade to ones that produce more mana.  The same goes for Crystal and Iron mines.  If you have enough iron mines to train your units maybe you don’t need to tech up the side of the tree to unlock these improvements.  But if you do want to have your iron come in faster, the research options are there for it.  This fixes a big issue for us by allowing us to control the pace of mana and resources as the game goes on, we can trickle it in in the beginning, then ramp it up as the player gets access to more expensive units and more costly spells.

 

Step 4: City Specialization

All cities start as villages.  When the city gets to city level 2 you pick a specialization for that city.  It can be either be a Fort, a Conclave or a Town.

 

Fort- Units trained in forts start at a level higher.  Forts are the only cities that can build walls as well as having access to improvements that improve defenders and improve trained units.

Conclave- Conclaves generate more research than other city types and have access to special magic and research improvements.  They gain additional bonuses from Essence (more about that later).

Town- Towns are the heart of your empire and are the source of your food, growth and money.  They also have a larger ZoC than other city types.  Towns have access to a series of improvements that improve the food production for all cities in your empire and they are cumulative with each other.  So Forts and Conclaves will never be able to reach the highest city levels on their own, they will need towns to support them.

 

The improvements for each city type are generally in that tech tree (Fort=Military, Town=Civilization, Conclave=Magic).  So players that are doing alot of teching in one area will find that they can get more advanced improvements for that sort of city.  If you have researched 90% of your magic tree and 0% of your Military tree you will have more high tier conclave improvements available than you have Fort improvements (in fact you will only have 1st tier Fort improvements available).

Choosing what sort of city you have opens up lots of new improvements to that city as well as determining what sorts of improvements the city can unlock at city level 3, 4 and 5.  The real magic comes in the intersection of the upgradeable improvement chains (which keep players from building everything everywhere) and the city types (which modify the effect of other improvements).  Maybe you want a food boosting town or a fort that creates super soldiers.  Or maybe you want studies in every city because you like studies (even if they are more productive in Conclave cities).

Note that studies are available everywhere.  Our point isn't to lock these city types down.  You can get research and money from non-town cities.  You can train units in Conclave cities.  The point is to open up new ways each type can specialize.

 

Step 5: The Economy

I love the idea of all the economics inputs coming from the population.  At one point I had a design where there were citizen types, unrest controlled how many were rebels, craftsmen produced special things.  It was a beautiful, intricate, stupid design.  Lesson number 2: If it's fun to design, it probably isn't fun to play.

Instead of getting money, research and production from the population, they now come from the city level.  A village (city level 1) produces 1 research a turn, a level 5 city produces 16 research per turn.  Of course these are modified by improvements, enchantments, etc.  But that is the extent of our range.

Because of that change tech costs drop to more normalized values.  A player with a large population isn't researching at 20x the rate of a player with a normal population.  He may be going twice as quickly.

Improvement costs can normalize since we know the ranges for a large production based city.  And they are close enough that they stay reasonable for a production focused city without being laughable for a moderate city.

Gold (*cough*, I mean Gildar) values were normalized since we control the ranges, meaning item costs in shops can come down.  Sell prices stay the same but now that money means more.  A gildar per turn means something to small and large empires alike because to don’t through a growth curve from starving for money to drowning in it.

 

Step 6: Essence

The final step is the addition of a new tile yield, Essence.  Essence appears much like Grain and Materials and is more prevelant around mana shards.  Only about half of the city locations have any essence nearby, and only about half of those have spots with 2 Essence.  3 Essence tiles are extremely rare.

There are chains of improvements that require essence before they become available.  The Cleric/Shrine/Sacrificial Altar chain I mentioned above is only available in cities with Essence.  Conclaves have access to Alchemy Labs and other improvements that give bonuses based on the amount of Essence in that city.  The Guardian Idol improvement requires Essence and is 1 per faction (it starts as a monument, upgraded to a Guardian Statue and then to a Guardian Idol), it is a powerful city defender that can cast any spell your sovereign can cast.

There are two improvements that can increase the amount of Essence in a city.  One is a level up option in Conclave cities.  The other is only available to Pariden.

The biggest advantage of Essence is that a cities Essence determines how many enchantments it can have.  City enchantments no longer have a maintenance cost and there are more of them and they are more powerful than before.  If you found a city on a place with essence the first thing you should do is get some enchantments on it.  Inspiration and Enchanted Hammers are good early ones that exist in Beta 3 (though in Beta4 the amount of their bonus depends on the amount of essence in the city).  Additional City Enchantments like Set in Stone (+100% production but no research), Blood Sigil (Withers all attackers, Berserks all Defenders) and Sovereign's Call (+1 Growth per Essence) allow you an additional decision on how to specialize your cities.  Trust in Glyph of Life to protect your Conclave from attackers, use Pit of Madness to speed the research in your Town.

Essence effectively becomes the most flexible tile yield, doing nothing on its own, but allowing you to reach in and play with the cities configuration.  Maybe you want it focused on gold and growth but dispel those enchantments and switch it into battle mode when enemies come near (enchantment maintenance is gone, but these spells still cost mana to cast so "respecting" your city isn't something you should do lightly).

 

Step 7: Balance

I find myself carefully considering the build options in my cities.  That doesn't mean it will be perfect.  I'm very curious to hear from all of you on what enchantments you use most and which you don't use at all.  Do you focus just on one sort of city type or play with a mix?  Do you chase down improvement chains to the end, or do you pick a variety of improvements in your cities?

In a few weeks you will have a chance to play and I'm excited to get your thoughts.  Until then we have work to do, mostly in making sure all the information is being displayed in an easy to understand way, and generally polishing the entire game to smooth the edges.

 

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July 3, 2012 4:10:12 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Sweet , loving the game so far ... great job everyone !!!!!!!!!!!

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July 3, 2012 5:19:00 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting onomastikon,



Quoting Mistwraithe,
reply 97



Quoting onomastikon,
reply 88
I really, really hope you will succeed in this. I have yet to see a TBS in which any queue has been able to have this power.


I disagree. Civ 4 largely achieves this. Most buildings in Civ4 have no or low maintenance costs. The constraint for virtually all of the game is that you only have enough production to build some of the buildings and units you want. This is part of its greatness.

I couldn't agree less. I find the Civ 4 BTS building queue to be, like its earlier iterations, poor after mid-game has been established, and mind-bogglingly boring once late-game has been reached. In CivIV, the only thing I end up doing is building mechanized infantries in cities A, B, and C, jet fighers in D and E, and bland unit X in cities F, G, and I - because there is nothing left to build. Even before I have reached this sad state, in which I have exhausted my "choices" by building every single one, I never felt that I was actually making a choice, unless it was a minor one in order. Agreed, I felt some minor sense of accomplishment when a new technological breakthrough was reached which finally gave me a new building to build, but this was never a "choice" between mutually exclusive benefits, and rarely a "choice" in that I had to consider if building the item was in fact a wise decision.

With few exceptions, all cities feel identical in Civilization. I never feel constrained whatsoever, neither by time nor resources. While the Civilization iterations succeeded in making a compelling and captivating experience for early game situations (which many other games also do well) and also in setting the bar for quality and creating a locus classicus to which almost all other 4X TBS games must refer, I belong to the minority of people who have only been able to finish 1 or 2 games before late game tedium sets in. I think the Civilization series was good, but that they failed in creating a fun queue constrained only by supposedly near-limitless possibilities. The possibilities were, indeed, exceptionally limited, and soon became drudgingly similar.

Pretty much this. I feel as though Civ IV has done the best in varying and constraining city building development, but I still get very bored after 1000AD mark because all the cities just end up building the same buildings all the time.

When it comes to FE, I'm seeing several 'zones' in the game:

Zone 1: Initial RPG. Building and developing your empire, but having to rely heavily on your hero's rpg.

Zone 2: Empire Building. Planning and curtailing how your empire is to function. Hero's begin leading small groups of troops around killing little bands of renegades and enemy forces.

Zone 3: The Developed Nation. Full scale assaults, diplomacy, what-have-you; anything that's found in the civ games is now done here.

Zone 4: Back to RPG. What's this? An epic story has been happening in the background and now I can finish the game? Cool...but where did that story go throughout?

 

I'm hoping that these Zones will merge into one glorious game of 5x fun.  

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July 3, 2012 7:48:38 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I like 5x.

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July 4, 2012 4:51:42 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

This is great news. 

As far as city spam, I hope we can implement that pioneers take population from city that trains them and settle new cities with that same number. 

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July 4, 2012 6:40:41 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Derek stated this beta will be available in a few weeks, has that been pinned down to something more specific. Are we talking end of July or is it more likely to run into mid-August? I'm glad the next beta is in the pipeline anyway

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July 4, 2012 7:52:40 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

No, no specific ETA. Frogboy earlier said "maybe" for July.

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July 4, 2012 3:37:17 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

What I'm hearing from Derek sounds real good!  It appears to me that there will be quite a depth to this game.  I'm already loving playing it...Very addictive! 


Is there any plans to implement a navy of any type?  I certainly see water, but we're landlocked lads so far, me hearties.  Has anyone heard?


Keep up the good work, don't finish it until it's finished.  However with that being said, we certainly like the beta updates!!

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July 4, 2012 4:37:58 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Thanks for the update!

Something I always had a problem with in GalCiv was the late game.  I always play the largest maps possible.  When you ended up with so many planets and so many build q's, enchantments/specializing did not mean a thing to me.

BUT.... You fixed it with HUGE random events.  It forces you to consider everything that could possibly happen.  Its a thought of "One day this town may be rocked by a group of daemons that we never saw coming and I better prepare for it just in case".

If everything works out, please put in huge random events.  It would make specializing so much more important, and it would let you "think" that even though your getting your a** beat that at some point something may happen to turn your luck around.

Just my 2¢

 

Dang-it, now I have to re-download it.  Stupid me.

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July 4, 2012 5:00:35 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting ,

Step 5: The Economy

I love the idea of all the economics inputs coming from the population.  At one point I had a design where there were citizen types, unrest controlled how many were rebels, craftsmen produced special things.  It was a beautiful, intricate, stupid design.  Lesson number 2: If it's fun to design, it probably isn't fun to play.

Instead of getting money, research and production from the population, they now come from the city level.  A village (city level 1) produces 1 research a turn, a level 5 city produces 16 research per turn.  Of course these are modified by improvements, enchantments, etc.  But that is the extent of our range.

You realize, of course, that this is the Civilization model you've just come round to?  In Civ, population is derived from city level as an arbitrary stat, which is derived from food collected by the city.  But you could easily replace "food collected by the city" with "population".  Each city level in Civ requires more "food"/"population" to make the city grow.  The difference in the two models is that it is very clear where food comes from in Civ.  It's somewhat less clear where "population" comes from in Fallen Enchantress.

The other difference might be that creating units in Fallen Enchantress can reduce city population, IIRC.

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July 4, 2012 5:01:29 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Late game tediousness is a problem with pretty much every 4X game I've played.

I just bought and finished a game of Endless Space, and I have to say that its approach, where some of the star system improvements don't help a system at all and are situational instead is even worse than the "I want to build everything"-system that the Civ games use.

It was horribly tedious to micromanage each star system to figure out whether I should build this food improvement or that economic improvement based on the planets the system had. Worse yet, a lot of the improvements (mostly the food generating ones) become useless once you hit the population cap for that star system; then if you want to powerplay, you have to go through the even more tedious task of scrapping those improvements as they're costing you maintenance.

Usually I wish a 4x game has a good auto-build system in place for the late game, because I don't know of a late game empire building system that would require choices to be made but not be tedious micromanagement. Instead, I would rather move on to a warfare phase and forget about empire building when I reach a certain turn count and have grown enough.

I also love playing huge maps, but the late game tedium has made me play with small / medium maps in pretty much all 4x games I start now.

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July 4, 2012 5:04:03 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Simplicity2,

You realize, of course, that this is the Civilization model you've just come round to?  In Civ, population is derived from city level as an arbitrary stat, which is derived from food collected by the city.  But you could easily replace "food collected by the city" with "population".  Each city level in Civ requires more "food"/"population" to make the city grow.  The difference in the two models is that it is very clear where food comes from in Civ.  It's somewhat less clear where "population" comes from in Fallen Enchantress.

The other difference might be that creating units in Fallen Enchantress can reduce city population, IIRC.

The most fundamental difference is that in Civ city level doesn't directly give a boost to production, rather you get one extra choice of specialist / tile worker. In FE according to Derek, you get a direct bonus based on level, so you have one less micromanagement step / choice to make. It's a simpler system than Civ.

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July 4, 2012 5:30:00 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

What is the .915xxx of beta 4? I have yet to upgrade my game, I try and download and the systems says Im running current but I havent yet seen the new items in the game. Im at .915.054

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July 4, 2012 5:35:02 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Beta 4 is still several weeks from being released. It is not yet downloadable.

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July 5, 2012 3:20:05 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting onomastikon,
I couldn't agree less. I find the Civ 4 BTS building queue to be, like its earlier iterations, poor after mid-game has been established, and mind-bogglingly boring once late-game has been reached. In CivIV, the only thing I end up doing is building mechanized infantries in cities A, B, and C, jet fighers in D and E, and bland unit X in cities F, G, and I - because there is nothing left to build.

Fair enough. Late game if you still haven't won then it is certainly possible to run out of things to build in Civ 4 BTS. Prior to that I usually feel like I have buildings or units which I'm keen to have finished asap so I can get onto the next thing that I want to build. To me Civ 4 gives a good trade off between guns and butter and meaningful choices on strategy across most aspects of the game.

Out of curiousity which game do you think manages buildings better? Its all very well to say you don't like Civ 4 but which game provides a better 4X strategic experience?

I will however agree that it would be nice if FE could add more variety between cities. I just don't want to be punished for researching and building improvements beyond the opportunity cost of building what I should have been building! (assuming of course I got it wrong).

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July 5, 2012 3:51:10 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting LNQ,
Late game tediousness is a problem with pretty much every 4X game I've played.

I just bought and finished a game of Endless Space, and I have to say that its approach, where some of the star system improvements don't help a system at all and are situational instead is even worse than the "I want to build everything"-system that the Civ games use.

It was horribly tedious to micromanage each star system to figure out whether I should build this food improvement or that economic improvement based on the planets the system had. Worse yet, a lot of the improvements (mostly the food generating ones) become useless once you hit the population cap for that star system; then if you want to powerplay, you have to go through the even more tedious task of scrapping those improvements as they're costing you maintenance.

Usually I wish a 4x game has a good auto-build system in place for the late game, because I don't know of a late game empire building system that would require choices to be made but not be tedious micromanagement. Instead, I would rather move on to a warfare phase and forget about empire building when I reach a certain turn count and have grown enough.

I also love playing huge maps, but the late game tedium has made me play with small / medium maps in pretty much all 4x games I start now.

  

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this seems like an illogical series of opinions for a 4x gamer. Endless Space's system improvement system is complicated, yes. But those complications are from tons of well designed mechanics interacting. It yields a massive level of the interesting choice we 4x gamers have been begging for. A complicated series of mechanics can be hard to learn, but once you do, the replayability is endless as there are a myriad of new situations in each game. Point of fact, having more food than population offers bonuses to the system. It does not go to waste. You may want to read up a bit on economic strategies and late game options for all that food. You should give the game some time to grow on you. Or don't. Perhaps 4x gaming is not for everyone. That's okay too.

If you love playing huge maps, you should expect some tedium. You can't have it both ways. In fact, the primary appeal of a small map is more interesting choices with little tedium. Large scale war efforts can take a long time to manage as well as infrastructure on that scale. I don't think it's fair to expect a game to provide you with an AI to do all your work for you. At some point you are not really playing the game. 

I want to be sure my tone is intended to only point out the contradictions in your expressed desires and stimulate self reflection. I could see how one might read a negative tone into my response, but I assure you that is not intended. I believe that Endless Space actually has an AI for the late game to make all your choices for you. This is only my opinion, but unrealistic expectations are generally an indication that there is a disconnect between a player and the genre of game they are playing. 4x takes alot of planning and logistics to win. That is an intrinsic part of the experience. Without that we would just be playing an RPG.

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July 5, 2012 6:02:50 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


@Seanw3 -- Planning: yes most definately. Logistics: to a certain degree. Tedium: No, absolutely not. Planning is all about making relevant, polyvalent choices that matter. These can be complex or simple. Complexity has no bearing whatsoever on tedium. Good UI and AI are there to help alleviate tedium. AI is, in this regard, much like subordinates are in a large office: I, as the CEO, make the decisions, but my subordinates carry these out, thus saving me the tedious task of making phone calls, writing emails, checking invoices, copying receipts, balancing the books, filing the documents, etc. etc. etc.

I agree with LNQ: late game tedium is a serious flaw in most 4X games. I also agree that this can also be overcome in some situations by implementing a goal-change in late game (concentration on warfare, etc.) instead of continued empire-building as was done in early- and mid-game.

@Mistwraithe: therefore I find it difficult to name games which have done well in this regard. HoMM3 I would name, since empire building was streamlined enough, and COE3 as well. DW also performs all right due to the decent AI.

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July 5, 2012 11:30:15 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Will the beta update be tonight? 

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July 5, 2012 11:49:23 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Alfdaur,
Will the beta update be tonight? 

Is tonight August?  Then no.  You should always take what a developer says "July" and add two weeks "August" for the actual delivery date.

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July 5, 2012 11:50:26 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

What the hell seanw3, how do you jump from my post to "maybe LNQ shouldn't play 4X games". You start sounding like Brad, using the "maybe this game is not for you" card way too soon. I don't like the condescending attitude.

I know of the one tech that turns excess food to resources in Endless Space, but if I haven't got that tech researched yet, does Food give some other bonuses as well? As far as I was aware, the extra food was useless other than that. If not, then the game UI needs some serious improvements.

I also don't understand how is it illogical that I love 4X games but hate clicking through all my star systems to see if they have reach the population cap, then have to click ot the improvements list and search for the food improvements and scrap them. Same thing with trade routes, having to manually go through each star system to see if they have trade routes and in that case build the trade route improvements. That's not fun, that's tedious work.

EDIT:

The problem of the Endless Space improvements (when building them) isn't that I had to make a choice between this or that. The problem was that I was able to easily build everything, but each time I ventured into the star system screen I had to figure out which of the improvements that I can build are useful, which are not. It was hard (impossible for me) to remember which of the systems I hadn't yet built something but wanted to later, and which I hadn't built something because it wasn't useful. So I had to go through this same thing for the SAME star system multiple times.

That's just bad design. If you instead have to choose between one of multiple exclusive options, that can be exciting.

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July 5, 2012 12:31:21 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Trojasmic,

quoting post
Until then we have work to do, mostly in making sure all the information is being displayed in an easy to understand way, and generally polishing the entire game to smooth the edges.


All the other stuff was not unexpected... so my favorite part of Beta 4 is quoted above.

 

Ditto that!!!

 

One of my biggest beefs with the game so far has to do with knowing how an improvement would really affect a city's numbers.

 

Yeah, I can get +2 food, but what does that mean with respect to a city's potential max size?

 

 

On another note. I am still trying to digest the idea that the player will determine what a city will specialize in vs the environment dictating that choice as in most other games. I am thinking I like having the option.

 

You can have your research cities closer to the heart of the Empire and the troop cities closer to the front (or fronts).

 

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July 5, 2012 1:17:52 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I wasn't trying to be condescending. Sorry. I am only pointing out that what some may call tedium others call management. I keep a list of notes on each planet in large ES games. Sure the UI needs a little notepad that we can open next to the planet, but I am more than capable of doing it myself. I am the emperor of a vast system of planets. Should not I do some of the work? I guess I can see your point about all of it needing to be ingame, but it is my opinion that the one redeeming quality of playing these games for hours on end is how it can build one's memory and work ethic. 4x is not supposed to be light and easy. But you are right, there is a line between reasonable effort and excess tedium. You should make a post about UI after beta 4 comes out with some ideas for improvements on the endgame UI. How would you change it to be less tedious?

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July 5, 2012 1:46:48 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Heavenfall,
1) If outposts are going to flip, please give us something like militia to defend them against scouts, pioneers and those level 1 crappy demons summoned for Resoln. Otherwise it is going to be micro hell. Suitably, that militia would upgrade as you research warfare/magic tech like city militia do.

2) You want us to have multiple cities, fine. But we don't like cityspam. How are you going to keep the amount of cities "several" but not "as many as I can fit into the map"?

 

 

Actully some of us don't mind City spam. I just don't want to be limited to one or two cities and be penilized for having more

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July 5, 2012 1:49:04 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting seanw3,
I keep a list of notes on each planet in large ES games. Sure the UI needs a little notepad that we can open next to the planet, but I am more than capable of doing it myself. I am the emperor of a vast system of planets.

I have always played my 4x games on the biggest scale the game will allow.  I understand LNQ's point about tedious end games & poor in game support.  However, I tend to agree with SEANW3, keeping side notes makes it feel like I'm really the one in charge.  Even when the game let's me turn on AI managers I refuse to do so.  Would it be nice to have a better UI with built-in notes & reminders?  You bet.  But first build a game that I want to play for hours on end.  (and so far it looks like that's exactly what Derek is doing).

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July 5, 2012 2:03:42 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


this update looks fantastic! I can't wait to try it out. Thank you Stardock Team for your hard work and dedication!

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July 5, 2012 2:11:39 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Souls-Stream,
(especially after the failure of Warlock: master of the arcane lol )

 

It Failed?  Well the Warlock: master of the arcane I have is a damn good game. Perhaps we are playing different games.

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