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Balance patch?

By on June 26, 2012 1:35:18 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

goodgimp

Join Date 12/2003
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Any indication of when the balance patch is going to be rolling out? 

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June 27, 2012 6:30:38 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz,
Anyone else find it odd that Phase Cannons got removed?  I mean, Sure, it's keeping the same particle effects, but still.. If you ask me, those have some awesome potential from a lore standpoint (not to mention, red balls of death just look cool).  They're still using the same particle effects, so perhaps this is just a temporary thing until they add them in as a new weapontype next patch (which I'd assume would break saves, hence why then and not now).

Phase Cannons would be awesome weapons if they had some sort of unique shield bypass component or something...  Maybe instead of bypassing shields and mitigation they shields and armor but still have to go through mitigation?  Idk..  Just the term "Phase Cannons" makes me want to keep them in the game very very badly...

 

This is what is happening basically, by changing the damage to phase missile, or not? IMHO it will still look as before, but it will act as phase missile, bypass shields and be influenced by phase missile techs... 

BTW, yay for the dark fleet summoning ability adjustments - now with shorter cooldown for the abilities, perhaps stripping truly every planet will become viable strategy. 

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June 27, 2012 7:22:17 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting GoaFan77,
One of them even said something like he was disappointed MP players weren't using the loyalists culture as a counter to SttC. 

WHAT?!  Where would anyone get that idea?! 

Quoting Timmaigh,
This is what is happening basically, by changing the damage to phase missile, or not? IMHO it will still look as before, but it will act as phase missile, bypass shields and be influenced by phase missile techs...

My point is that I'd really rather them not just be a reskinned PM.  I'd love to see something unique with the Vasari.  As much as I love PM's, the implications of having "Phase Cannons" would be spectacular.

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June 27, 2012 9:03:28 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I do like that areia drone hosts shouldn't create useless mine squads anymore.  I like the AR resurrection/reanimation buffs as well.  Maybe we can see some buffs to culture or culture bonuses in the future.

"Updated Protection of the Unity CultureShieldRegenAmount to a max of 150% at level 3. Note you will only get the full benefit if your ships are within a fully saturated region of your culture."

Maybe more like this?


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June 27, 2012 9:30:04 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

It's a good start, I like it.  It's enough to warrant playing the game again at least now that using Visari won't feel like cheating, VR starbases aside.  I look forward to seeing what is planned to bring TL and VL up to par with their rebel factions.

 

Oh, and THANK YOU for using my Advent AI mine suggestion (ie just remove it).  Advent AI might have a slightly better chance late game now that it doesn't waste carriers as mine layers.

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June 27, 2012 10:30:08 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz,
WHAT?! Where would anyone get that idea?!

It works in theory, but utterly fails in practice. I'm definitely going to try and make it a mod possibility too.

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June 27, 2012 10:50:00 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Great changes, look forward to checking them out.

Quoting bilun,
the future of culture and/or any upcoming changes in upcoming patches?

It's a core mechanic to the Advent Loyalists which continues to not really be viable despite their enormous bonuses.

What enormous bonuses? AL bonuses are tiny.

 

 

 

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June 27, 2012 11:32:49 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting JuleTron,
What enormous bonuses? AL bonuses are tiny.

+50% conversion rate and culture spread should be huge... if culture worked well in the first place.

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June 27, 2012 11:54:34 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Idea for the Advent Loyalists - add a level 8 upgrade to DE that instantly reduces a planet's loyalty by 20%.

This would provide them with a powerful late game toy to enhance their cultural strength.

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June 28, 2012 1:26:26 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting GoaFan77,

+50% conversion rate and culture spread should be huge... if culture worked well in the first place.

It isn't a culture spread buff, its culture spread rate buff which is far less impressive. If it were culture spread itself that got a boost, than there wouldn't be a problem in that area.

I didn't know that they had a 50% conversion rate buff, that sounds decent. But Fury of the Unity is probably the worst tech at tier 7 or above by a wide margin. The population growth rate boost given by Assimilated Populace should probably be higher as well.

 

Idea for the Advent Loyalists - add a level 8 upgrade to DE that instantly reduces a planet's loyalty by 20%.

The normal DE should just do something like that by default.

 

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June 28, 2012 2:18:59 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting bdelong498,
Idea for the Advent Loyalists - add a level 8 upgrade to DE that instantly reduces a planet's loyalty by 20%.

I do not believe a current entity modifier exists for that....

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June 28, 2012 3:30:34 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting JuleTron,
It isn't a culture spread buff, its culture spread rate buff which is far less impressive. If it were culture spread itself that got a boost, than there wouldn't be a problem in that area.

Exactly what these modifiers do and how culture works in general could be better explained and streamlined...

Quoting Seleuceia,
I do not believe a current entity modifier exists for that....

Its the devs, we bug them to make those new modifiers.

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June 28, 2012 4:29:05 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting GoaFan77,
Exactly what these modifiers do and how culture works in general could be better explained and streamlined...

I seem to recall hearing that these modifiers do not make culture stronger, just make it spread faster....is this actually the case?  IIRC, Pbhead or Volt did timed tests (though it could have been someone else, not sure) and some other things and found that it didn't make culture stronger...

Then there was the whole dividing your culture strength by number of phase lanes....

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June 28, 2012 4:41:50 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Seleuceia,

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 63Exactly what these modifiers do and how culture works in general could be better explained and streamlined...

I seem to recall hearing that these modifiers do not make culture stronger, just make it spread faster....is this actually the case?  IIRC, Pbhead or Volt did timed tests (though it could have been someone else, not sure) and some other things and found that it didn't make culture stronger...

Then there was the whole dividing your culture strength by number of phase lanes....

 

Honestly no one really knows for sure how the culture techs work- we just know they don't make anywhere near as large a difference as the numbers would have use believe.

 

Well do know the Entity Modifier for the Advent Rebel Expulsion buff is named differently then the boost given by all the culture techs- the former buffs "CultureSpread" whereas all the culture techs improve "CultureSpreadRateAdjustment".

 But then that could have as much to do with one of those being a BuffEntityModifer and the other being a tech modifier.  it very well could be that when the variables were named they weren't named in a perfectly consistant manner but actually do the same thing(only one as a buff, one as a tech upgrade).

 

 

Part of the problem is that there is no transparency unveiling the inner workings of Culture- no one outside of Stardock, as far as I've heard, seems to know exactly how it works under the hood.  Which makes giving detailed feedback beyond "it's not viable" is prohibitively difficult.

 

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June 28, 2012 7:03:41 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I never posted results from my testing, though I once found when messing around on Point Blank with myself and the opponent both having access to all research, near infinite resources, no build restrictions, and instant build times (yay for dev.exe).  I found IIRC that it took the enemy 20 to counteract the 15 I had.  Of course, I also had Global Unity, so that makes it 16 v 20 which reduces to 4 v 5.  Either way, the AL had a significant advantage in the way of culture.

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June 28, 2012 10:04:59 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yeah, in our internal playtesting, culture tends to make a bigger difference than what you guys are reporting. I'm certainly not against looking at it further, but it's tricky to balance because we have to take into account the AI's ability to deal with it and also the culture speed option.

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June 28, 2012 11:07:47 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Yarlen,
culture tends to make a bigger difference than what you guys are reporting.

May be true, but using culture for offense is generally useless. A player will have had his economy damaged before he can damage the opponent. But Advent is never good at economy.

In current design culture is more defensive. In the old games it's OK, but in Rebellions, AL is intended to assault with culture, while the same time, they can hardly use their own advantages. That's why people are disappointed.

On the other hand, I think it's OK for AR, because the design of AR culture is more defense-oriented.

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June 28, 2012 12:39:35 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

So where is the patch? 

I came home from work and i want to plaaaay... What time is it in Vancouver? 9:30 AM? 

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June 28, 2012 12:41:51 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yarlen, is there any idea when the patch is going to arrive today?

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June 28, 2012 12:59:39 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Yarlen,
Yeah, in our internal playtesting, culture tends to make a bigger difference than what you guys are reporting. I'm certainly not against looking at it further, but it's tricky to balance because we have to take into account the AI's ability to deal with it and also the culture speed option.

I assume you are referring to the AI not always building culture centers when it should (and therefore losing planets to even small amounts of culture)...I can understand for that reason alone why you might not be tempted to buff culture...

That being said, even small changes like increasing the rate that allegiance can change could go to great lengths to make it more useful, both economically and as a tactical option...

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June 28, 2012 1:09:38 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Horray! The patch has downloaded!

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June 28, 2012 1:18:35 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

v1.03 is live.

Selueucia - exactly.

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June 28, 2012 1:39:40 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I've noticed in my own playtesting that simply increasing the output of the AL culture centers makes a big difference in how effective their culture is. A couple buffs and/or additions to already existing AL culture techs and I think the difference would be pretty noticeable.

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June 28, 2012 2:24:02 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Yarlen,
v1.03 is live.

Selueucia - exactly.

Fantastic. Can we have the change log please?

Edit: Oops asked too quickly. It's already there!

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June 28, 2012 2:28:00 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

It appears to have been updated now

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