Stardock

Civ 5 Gods and Kings expansion

By on June 19, 2012 9:31:38 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

TheBirthday...

Join Date 03/2006
+13

So the expansion for Civ 5 Gods and Kings is out today. Think its worth the 29.99 they're asking?

96 Replies
Search this post
Subscription Options


Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 20, 2012 3:05:51 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Can we get back to the Civ5 expansion, instead of wasting our time on the troll?

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 20, 2012 3:22:11 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yikes!

Ahem, so any of you who have purchased the expansion, do you consider it full price material if I'm so so on Civ V?

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 20, 2012 3:51:47 PM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Quoting AragornV,
Yikes!

Ahem, so any of you who have purchased the expansion, do you consider it full price material if I'm so so on Civ V?

I pre-ordered the expansion (at 10% off) and I am very pleased with it (though I haven't yet made it completely through my first game). I think it's definitely worth the full price. But I really like Civ V Vanilla.

If you're so-so on Civ V, I really don't know whether it would be worth full price. You can read more about the features here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=464730 and there may be a demo later. If you're not sure about the price, you could always wait until the price comes down to a level you would be willing to pay. 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 20, 2012 4:50:47 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting DGB246,
Why are you bashing ToA now? That was a great game and it's a massive exaggeration to describe the AI as 'completely broken', thats just daft and you know it.

I am not defending our local pirate here, but ToA is quite comparable to Rebellion...both brought lots of awesome new content and fundamentally changed the game (mostly for the better), but both also have serious AI and balance issues....

Now to Civ V....

To confirm what has been often stated, if you don't like Civ V you won't like the expansion...I for one love the new implementations of core mechanics that Civ V brought to the series so the expansion is fine for me as well...

The introduciton of late game replacements for ranged units was a nice touch, as was the distinction between melee and ranged naval units (though the system might need some balancing)...

I have mixed feelings on religion and espionage, and don't think they scale well for different map or empire sizes...as an example, having more cities does not necessarily lend to more science since smaller empires can have higher population densities and vertical growth...but with religion, more citites = more faith and I'm not sure I'm a fan....

Espionage doesn't scale well either since the number of spies you have is independent of how many players/city states there are...

Overall though I'd say the tech tree and progression of unit upgrades enhance the core game nicely and overshadow any weaknesses of religion or espionage...

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 20, 2012 5:53:50 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Does the AI play the game well now? That is all I ever really cared about.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 20, 2012 9:20:18 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yup the AI is much better at the little things involved in managing troops in the field. For example evil Dido of Carthage took my third city early on with a army of 1 warrior and 5 archers..I thought..no problemo but Dido arranged her archers in such a way that I couldnt get to them all before they drop the health of the to super low levels. The warrior then ran in and took the city, and when my army finished off the archers it was able to retake the city. The warrior stayed just long enough to buff the D then left on the last turn right before the city fell. (units in a city when its take are destoyed so it was smart to leave at that point) Diplomacy is still a mess of confusion however as I have no idea why Dido declared war twice against me nor why Alexander keep sending me mean messages. I think the unsung element in G&K are the City State changes..I really like the more detailed interface and all the new quests. Again stuff that really should have been their on release but whatever.

If we are going to call people who avoid be cheated by downloading software a dramatic name like "pirate"..can we call developers who arnt honest about the condition of their products "wallet rapists"?

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 21, 2012 2:22:57 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Thanks for the info pirate. Looks like I will be giving those rapists my money.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 21, 2012 2:30:27 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think the term "wallet rapists" is offensive to those who have been raped.  You have the choice not to buy and not to use games you don't support, so why don't you exercise self-control and just choose not to play the game at all?

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 21, 2012 3:49:53 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
It is never more "ethical" to pirate something. Pirates are the lowest form of scum on the Internet, particularly those who rationalize their shittiness.

Child porn? Snuff videos? Racist propaganda?

Just providing some perspective ...

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 21, 2012 3:54:50 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Gandhialf,
You guys really don't see the difference between theft and piracy?



I'm not trying to justify piracy. I'm just saying that it is not a theft. It's... piracy.

 

This is whats wrong with our legal systems.

There is a morale deficit in both, theft and piracy.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 21, 2012 3:57:57 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting StevenAus,
I think the term "wallet rapists" is offensive to those who have been raped.  You have the choice not to buy and not to use games you don't support, so why don't you exercise self-control and just choose not to play the game at all?

They just want stuff for free like all pirates but don't have the moral courage to admit it. Amazes me how they bitch and whine about a product's bad AI, not enough features etc ... and then go and steal it! Are they masochists or something?

Anyway, the only thing Civ 5 needs now are random/world events to fully make it on par with BtS.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 21, 2012 4:21:50 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

If I do immaterial work for someone for 50 hours, let's say I build them something out of their own materials. And they don't pay me. I would call that stealing, just like I would call piracy stealing.

I'm not 100% sure of the differences between the words stealing and theft. In finnish we have just one word for the whole thing. Piracy, incidentally, is simply called "illegal copying". Fancy words sometimes hide true meanings.

In other news, the expansion looks good, but I'll be waiting for the price to drop. Too many good games to play already. Crusader Kings 2 awaits..

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 21, 2012 7:13:22 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Gandhialf,

Quoting Kantok, reply 24That picture is idiotic.  Just because what you are stealing is intangible does NOT mean you are not stealing.  

You don't get the point. Tangibility is irrelevant. Removing original "thing" (tangible or not) is relevant. I, in fact, can steal something that is intangible: copy a file and delete it from the original source. Copying without deleting is not stealing.

Semantic bullshit with no real distinction.  They are taking something they have no right to without compensating the creators.  

As for the game itself, I decided to give the xpac a try because I really WANTED to like Civ5, but never got could get into it.  I played 2 or 3 games total in the month or two after the game first came out.  The culprit was partially the AI and partially some of the new mechanics.  

I played the xpac yesterday for 3 or 4 hours.  It was great.  The underlying game is still the same, obviously.  But the AI is much better (than Civ5 near launch anyway) and the new systems add a lot to the game.  I'm thoroughly enjoying it.  It'll probably be what I play mostly until we get Beta4 for Elemental.  

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 21, 2012 11:24:17 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Kantok,

Quoting Gandhialf, reply 26
Quoting Kantok, reply 24That picture is idiotic.  Just because what you are stealing is intangible does NOT mean you are not stealing.  

You don't get the point. Tangibility is irrelevant. Removing original "thing" (tangible or not) is relevant. I, in fact, can steal something that is intangible: copy a file and delete it from the original source. Copying without deleting is not stealing.

Semantic bullshit with no real distinction.  They are taking something they have no right to without compensating the creators. 

Mmmm no...If there is a car dealer who regularly sells cars that turn out to be held together with duct tape I think its reasonable for someone to test drive the product first. And the "creators" aka Wallet Rapists have a long history of con artistry. With one side of the mouth the developers are saying protect our intellectual property from thieves while with the other they are Raping Wallets by repeatedly hocking generations of dysfunctional products.  Worse case scenario you are "stealing" from thieves. And no one is holding a gun to the wallet Rapist head saying they must sell their products in ways that risk harm to the customers while maintain maximum possible profit for the Rapists.

 

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 21, 2012 11:25:47 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yay for hijacking my thread!

Anyway, i've been needing a new game to play; in this case something to make a game i've played and and interesting. So I bought the expansion from steam. So far for one play through i'm finding not much has changed. Just a new aspect for trying to race ahead other civs. The spying is very minor and doesn't require much attention. The new civs aren't all that interesting either. A few other things have changed, but for the most part the game makes me sleepy. The GaK expansion is worth 10 bucks, not 30. GaK is highly over priced. I keep a sort of list of companies i am wary of buying things from, 2K games and Firaxis now have a strike against them.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 21, 2012 11:33:49 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

As I said they are charging you for work they left out of the original release. Something Jon Shafer has ample time to discuses with the community before they raped our wallets. Alas his loyalty was to corporations and his job not to fellow gamers or the quality of games in general. So the cycle continues.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 21, 2012 1:00:46 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting TheBirthdayParty,
Yay for hijacking my thread!

Anyway, i've been needing a new game to play; in this case something to make a game i've played and and interesting. So I bought the expansion from steam. So far for one play through i'm finding not much has changed. Just a new aspect for trying to race ahead other civs. The spying is very minor and doesn't require much attention. The new civs aren't all that interesting either. A few other things have changed, but for the most part the game makes me sleepy. The GaK expansion is worth 10 bucks, not 30. GaK is highly over priced. I keep a sort of list of companies i am wary of buying things from, 2K games and Firaxis now have a strike against them.

I've had different results with GaK.  It took a game that I played a few times and borderline regretted purchasing and turned it into a game that I expect I'll play off and on for a long time going forward.  Some of it is fixing mistakes in the original game (AI) and some of it is the addition of the new systems.  Though overall I can't point to any one thing.  The game just feels better to play.  

To each their own I guess. 

Quoting enoeraew37,
As I said they are charging you for work they left out of the original release. Something Jon Shafer has ample time to discuses with the community before they raped our wallets. Alas his loyalty was to corporations and his job not to fellow gamers or the quality of games in general. So the cycle continues.

You've just shot down every expansion pack in history, congrats.  Every single one qualifies as "work they left out of the original release".  That's precisely why it's called an "expansion pack".  It EXPANDS upon the original game.  

By the way, you're "Duct tape" analogy is crap.  If a car dealer won't let you test drive a car (the equivalent of a game demo) and you're not willing to risk the purchase based on reviews from reputable car magazines without the test drive, you GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.  You don't steal the car, take it for a joy ride, and then return it the following morning in some fit of fake moral righteousness.  

Oh and I'm curious.  Where are all the news stories and some proof that game companies are forcing themselves on your wallet, removing your money violently and without your permission, and leaving you poorer against your will.  Because clearly, that's what a Wallet Rapist must do.  

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 21, 2012 2:05:28 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting enoeraew37,
As I said they are charging you for work they left out of the original release.

Rubbish. They clearly stated what was in their game and if you didn't like it then you don't buy it (and you sure as hell don't steal, sorry, pirate it). If you can find me an article where, for example, Firaxis claimed religion and espionage were in vanilla civ 5 then I'd certainly be interested to see it. If you think the product is inferior who the hell gave you the right to get it for free anyway? Who?

Boycotting is the ultimate form of showing one's displeasure at a developer. Don't try to dress up software piracy as something more noble than theft, because it isn't.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 21, 2012 2:06:57 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Kantok,
Semantic bullshit with no real distinction.

Inadequate definitions (like calling piracy theft) makes reasonable discussion impossible. First we should define terms, than we can discuss about righteousness of actions. Semantics is a key here. Without it our discussions would look like "discussions" of animals (or like some flame wars).

Quoting Kantok,
They are taking something they have no right to without compensating the creators.

Now you are trying to define piracy, not theft. I don't think your definition is adequate (definition of action should be neutral), but it's good that you finally see the difference between the two (your definition does not apply to theft).

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 21, 2012 3:17:30 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting leeboy26,

Quoting enoeraew37, reply 42As I said they are charging you for work they left out of the original release.

Rubbish. They clearly stated what was in their game and if you didn't like it then you don't buy it (and you sure as hell don't steal, sorry, pirate it). If you can find me an article where, for example, Firaxis claimed religion and espionage were in vanilla civ 5 then I'd certainly be interested to see it. If you think the product is inferior who the hell gave you the right to get it for free anyway? Who?

Boycotting is the ultimate form of showing one's displeasure at a developer. Don't try to dress up software piracy as something more noble than theft, because it isn't.

I'm not going to do your homework for you..there are plenty of stuff about religion being in and then removed. The are even screenshots of the old system. Boycotting rarely works because the the consumer is on the very bottom of the money cycle. That said I tried to organize a boycott prior to the original release of Civ5 at their offices and no one showed any interest. When a game has to sell millions of copies to be successful, one person, or a small group of people have no ability to create change. The customer they care about is Walmart, Best Buy, Steam ect ect. The customer is not you and me.

And priates with their boats and hooks and parrots arnt robbing the Creator. 2kgames robbed the creators like the artists when they paid them 5$ an hour and laid them off along with the guys who made red dead redemption a month or so before release. The "creators" have already been paid one way or another before the customer get the product. If there are any victims to a "pirated game" its the wasteful, meaningless bureaucracy who care about 100,00k estimated pirated versions when you've sold 5 million aka the publishers/bankers. They need those extra 100 sales for the macro picture, because big clean numbers get them the next big load for the next big project. The Macro doesnt cares if some kid in Uzbakastan doesnt get to play the game because pirating is the only way he can get it. 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 21, 2012 11:48:27 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Seleuceia,

Quoting enoeraew37, reply 122) I order from Getgamesgo.com for $22. We are basically paying for 2 features that should have shipped with the game to begin with..but I'll give it a shot for 20 bucks.

Civ V completely redid many game mechanics that had been core to Civ II, III, and IV...trying to incorporate religion and espionage (which are not essential) would have only complicated attempts to balance completely new and unvetted systems like global culture, global happiness, policies, population -> research (instead of gold), city states, one unit per tile combat, etc...

God and Kings is comparable to the expansions of Civ IV...so I'm guessing you didn't like those either?

 

While I haven't played G&K yet, there IS a very fine line between an expansion and a patch update being charged for.  Take Starcraft 2 for example.  Even during Blizzcon's Power Point presentation they openly admitted the expansion will be entirely focused on fixing the current multiplayer gameplay.  Normally this is not cause for concern but their idea of fixing gameplay is to add in the missing units from its predecessor Starcraft 1 but with new names and faces.  Nearly all new multiplayer content will be reserved for the 3rd product final expansion Legacy of the Void.

What is wrong with this picture?

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 22, 2012 12:43:53 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It is a good expansion pack imo.

If Civ5 was released like this I would have enjoyed it a bit more.

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 22, 2012 4:03:42 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting enoeraew37,



Quoting Kantok,
reply 39

Quoting Gandhialf, reply 26
Quoting Kantok, reply 24That picture is idiotic.  Just because what you are stealing is intangible does NOT mean you are not stealing.  

You don't get the point. Tangibility is irrelevant. Removing original "thing" (tangible or not) is relevant. I, in fact, can steal something that is intangible: copy a file and delete it from the original source. Copying without deleting is not stealing.

Semantic bullshit with no real distinction.  They are taking something they have no right to without compensating the creators. 


Mmmm no...If there is a car dealer who regularly sells cars that turn out to be held together with duct tape I think its reasonable for someone to test drive the product first. And the "creators" aka Wallet Rapists have a long history of con artistry. With one side of the mouth the developers are saying protect our intellectual property from thieves while with the other they are Raping Wallets by repeatedly hocking generations of dysfunctional products.  Worse case scenario you are "stealing" from thieves. And no one is holding a gun to the wallet Rapist head saying they must sell their products in ways that risk harm to the customers while maintain maximum possible profit for the Rapists.  

If you can't get a test drive (demo) of a car (game) that you think might be broken (bugged/ faulty) you turn around and go to another dealer (company). You DON'T break into the car at night and take it for a test drive (pirate a game).

I don't know where you are getting your sense of entitlement from.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 22, 2012 4:29:50 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Enough with the idiotic flawed analogies.

They produce something. They have the rights to license it in whatever way they want. If they say it costs 100 000 dollars to buy, that doesn't make it more right for you to take it for free. Your only choice should be whether you decline or accept the terms. But you think it's ok to take the product and ignore the terms.

Piracy may not be stealing, who cares. Your actions are MORALLY WRONG if you are getting access to their product without paying your dues.

Besides being ethically in the bad zone, you also have the nerve to complain about their product as if you had paid. As if your opinion holds any relevance when you blatantly admit to not adhering to their terms for accessing the product. Why should they EVER listen to you, who does not pay the man? What is your opinion worth to them?

And finally, if you are not paying your way for the product, then you the worst kind of scumbag because it means your fellow gamers are paying for you. And not only that, but you come here and flaunt the fact of your idiocy in our faces.

In conclusion, you are garbage.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
June 22, 2012 5:33:13 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I have to say I can see both sides of the coin, but as a developer I have to say piracy is not stealing the product, it is possible stolen profits. And while many of you say "I wouldn't have bought it anyway" that does not give you the right to copy it in the first place. There is no inherent right to own something somebody else made, and making a videogame is very time consuming and costly.

I do not like the way the DLC card is played nowadays, but if I don't like that or have a problem with DRM I don't buy the game and I don't download it. I haven't got that much time to play anyway.

Also, there are only very few people who adhere to the practise that if they download something and they like it that they buy it afterwards. I do have some sympathy for children who have not got any money for game and pirate some title to play on their parents computer, but just because I would understand that and perhaps even tolerate such behaviour in some circumstances does not mean I condone piracy as a whole.

With all that being said, I don't like civ5 and I don't like how they sell you part of the last version (civ4) as a costly expansion. But I do own civ4 with all of its expansions and that game is still playable on the latest OS so why need I buy/pirate something?

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Stardock Forums v1.0.0.0    #108431  walnut1   Server Load Time: 00:00:00.0001328   Page Render Time:
Facebook Twitter YouTube Google+