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I know it's been asked a thousand times, but is there EVER going to be multi-core support?

By on June 18, 2012 8:50:30 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Zepheyr

Join Date 12/2009
+1

You've heard it all before, and we all know how Sins gets slower and slower the bigger the map is and the longer you play it.

 

The one dark cloud that hangs over Sins, an otherwise (in my opinion) perfect game, is the fact that even with a modern gaming rig I can't play medium-large, large, or huge maps for longer than a few hours before the entire match slows to an intolerable crawl and becomes impossible to finish. My vast interstellar empire building ends up being a pointless exercise, because the bigger it is and the more ships I field, the slower and more unplayable the game becomes. Watching the seconds tick by upon scuttling something is like watching life play out in slow motion... it can literally take 3+ seconds just for 1 realtime second to pass. My video card barely gets used in this game, but my CPU gasps for dear life. If I want to be sure I have a consistently smooth game I have to play a small or medium-sized map with a small fleet size, and have to set the AI difficulty pretty low or they end up having too high of a resource bonus and build huge fleets anyway. For a game based around building empires and engaging in massive fleet battles, it is almost unbearable that I can't play it the way I want to play it.

 

Why can't I just make a colossal map with tons of stars and hundreds of planets and 7 Viscious AI's and not have to worry about never finishing it? Every couple of months I get the itch to create a space empire and engage in some epic fleet battles, so I come back to Sins because nothing scratches that itch like some good old Sins, the greatest space RTS ever. However, without fail I only play it for a few days, maybe a week and then quit in frustration because the slowdown ruins my epic space empire dreams.

 

I know I sound like a broken record since this subject has been done to death, but I thought multi-core support was supposed to be added with Rebellion. Maybe I was just wishing it was going to be added.

 

Is this a dream we are going to have to wait a few more years for when Sins 2 comes out?

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June 22, 2012 8:25:37 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I think Thoumsin is the guy with the wicked linux system who breaks that 2gb memory limit. 

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June 23, 2012 12:54:53 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Tonight I was showing 3 prospective buyer friends the game, they wanted me to stream the game.

About 2hours in, the slowdown hit. Hiccups every minute for 5s, constant 15fps zoomed out with all lowest settings (3.7ghz here, so not a horrible processor)

They've all walked away and have zero interest in playing. "Well whats the point in having super large maps, if you just simply can't play it? and if it's just small scale maps with skirmishes, why would I want it over SC2 which has 1000x more people"

 

Valid arguments that I wish I could dispel. I'd be lying if I tried though?

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June 23, 2012 7:57:46 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting DaxxTrias,
Tonight I was showing 3 prospective buyer friends the game, they wanted me to stream the game.

About 2hours in, the slowdown hit. Hiccups every minute for 5s, constant 15fps zoomed out with all lowest settings (3.7ghz here, so not a horrible processor)

They've all walked away and have zero interest in playing. "Well whats the point in having super large maps, if you just simply can't play it? and if it's just small scale maps with skirmishes, why would I want it over SC2 which has 1000x more people"

 

Valid arguments that I wish I could dispel. I'd be lying if I tried though?

 

exactly why i keep walking away from it.

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June 23, 2012 8:09:41 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting DaxxTrias,
About 2hours in, the slowdown hit. Hiccups every minute for 5s, constant 15fps zoomed out with all lowest settings (3.7ghz here, so not a horrible processor)

 

I bet around that time there were 100's of trade ships doing their thing. 

Its something alot of people forget about, tradeships. Gotta remember them and Strike craft squads are the biggest creators of later game lag.

 

Modding the game to reduce the amount of tradeships spawning helps significantly in getting those bigger map games.

 

Its easy to have 100 squads of Strikecraft per side, per battle in one grav well. That is depending on your faction 300-900 units. Plus your other ships, plus refinery ships and tradeships. The latter two depending on how big the map is and how many respective buildings you create that spawns those could easly be 1000+ plus more units.

 

There is no other game engine that can even remotely handle to sheer amount of units like the Iron Engine, but even it has issues with larger/longer games if you push it map size to big.

 

If you want that massive scale, you need to do a bit of modding.

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June 23, 2012 8:37:11 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting -Ue_Carbon,
Quoting DaxxTrias, reply 27About 2hours in, the slowdown hit. Hiccups every minute for 5s, constant 15fps zoomed out with all lowest settings (3.7ghz here, so not a horrible processor)

 

I bet around that time there were 100's of trade ships doing their thing. 

Its something alot of people forget about, tradeships. Gotta remember them and Strike craft squads are the biggest creators of later game lag.

 

Modding the game to reduce the amount of tradeships spawning helps significantly in getting those bigger map games.

 

Its easy to have 100 squads of Strikecraft per side, per battle in one grav well. That is depending on your faction 300-900 units. Plus your other ships, plus refinery ships and tradeships. The latter two depending on how big the map is and how many respective buildings you create that spawns those could easly be 1000+ plus more units.

 

There is no other game engine that can even remotely handle to sheer amount of units like the Iron Engine, but even it has issues with larger/longer games if you push it map size to big.

 

If you want that massive scale, you need to do a bit of modding.

 

this is exactly what your team does, no?

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June 24, 2012 11:32:14 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

We mod, yes.

 

 

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June 25, 2012 12:42:14 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Hmm so reduce tradeships down to 1, and strike craft to 1 per squadron?  I suppose you could also double up the states of all frigates to reduce frigates in game by half.  Though with those settings micro would become more important.

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June 25, 2012 1:31:47 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Astax,
Hmm so reduce tradeships down to 1, and strike craft to 1 per squadron?  I suppose you could also double up the states of all frigates to reduce frigates in game by half.  Though with those settings micro would become more important.

 

Reducing Tradeships will give you your biggest change.

 

For example, currently every Trade Port spawns 5 trade ships.

 

Lets say its a longer game with 8 players. And conservatly each player has 10 trade ports scattered about.

 

So we have 10*5=50 and 50*8=400

 

Right there you have a mid to late game fleet worth of ships flying about that the game is tracking! 

 

Reducing this down to 1 gives you this: 10*1=10 and 10*8=80. Its a big difference. Also this does affect how the income rates of trade ports since the formula factors in trade ports that reach their destinations. Lowering the amount of trade ships  also makes blowing them up better for you by causing a bigger disruptions in the max income rates of trade ports. Making raiding worth your time.

 

Now for SC, I wouldnt lower them down to 1 per squad. You could but I wouldnt. Reducing them by 1 based on the race. Off the top of my head Advent have 9 per squad. So lowering that down to 8 would be ok. You could then redo the squads total stats to compensate for the loss SC. So in this example, the remaining 8 would get buffed by 1/9 in all stats.

 

You can take this reduction down as far as you want but the lower you go it really can mess with balance.

 

Now for some numbers: Lets take my example for Strikecraft. Lets say you make a bunch of carriers, and now you have 100 squads of SC.

 

100*9=900 and lets say your fighting in a grav well with some enemies and they brought some SC in significant numbers.

 

You=900  They=500=100*5

 

Now there are 1400 different units just in SC alone!!!!! Not to mention Caps, Frigates, Titans, Tradeships, Refinery ships, Constructors, Starbases, Defensive Structures.

 

Now if we were to reduce SC numbers by 1 you save roughly 200 units that the game doesnt have to track.

 

 

As you can see, just tweaking these 2 things can reduce the load of the game, significantly. Ive seen vast improvident personally but your mileage will vary. You can take this less is more logic further if you wish but, reducing and condensing past a point will change how balance works and how the game plays over all.

 

I suggest you start with Trade ships, and if nothing else do that. Its the simplest and has the least effect on gameplay combat wise. TBH, I doubt you even notice the tiny difference in trade income, if any at all. 

 

 

EDIT: Due note even with changes like this...your gonna hit a wall. This will extend the time before you hit it. Sooner or later, the bigger your map the quicker your gonna hit that wall, just due to the nature of having more ships and more trade ports. 

After all every game has its limits. The limits for this game are high, but we just take it tracking all those tiny ships for granted.

 

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June 25, 2012 10:18:31 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I would pay another ~30 Dollars for another expansion that was nothing but just multi-core support and maybe 64 bit.

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June 26, 2012 10:07:35 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'd rather spend $50 on Sins2 which was built as a multithreaded engine from the start.

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