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xaltotun
xaltotun
Join Date 05/2009
+8

[Suggestion] Archer units and range

February 12, 2012 6:59:13 PM from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

One of the things that kept archer units from getting out of control in MOM was the way range worked.     Short bows lost both chance of hit and damage with range - even on the small battlefield it had quite an impact on strategy.   Long bows had a range penalty but it was not as bad as the short bows.

Perhaps I missed it and FE already has a range penalty for archers.    If so, its not effective as they are very powerful from anywhere on the battleground.

I suggest we implement a range limit in FE of the type used in MOM.  This would really make the game more interesting.

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xaltotun
Tasunke
Join Date 10/2009
+45
Reply #1 February 12, 2012 7:05:28 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I think the battle maps ... could potentially be created as somewhat larger things ... before we get into range penalties.

 

Can units cross the entire map in 1 turn now? I'd prefer units having either 1 tile per turn or 2 tiles per turn movement (melee or mounted), and have the rest determined by initiative.

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xaltotun
Rhadagast
Join Date 05/2006
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Reply #2 February 12, 2012 7:35:02 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I'm for the range penalties.  However I think it should be a lot easier to get bows and we need some magic ones (I think they are adding this).

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xaltotun
xaltotun
Join Date 05/2009
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Reply #3 February 12, 2012 7:36:03 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Magic bows would be great.   However, I think they might not have a range penalty as part of being "magic".

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xaltotun
Stupidity10
Join Date 09/2010
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Reply #4 February 12, 2012 8:38:32 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Cover bonus > Range penalty

Battlefields are tiny but if your behind a tree you should get a dodge bonus or something.

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xaltotun
Tasunke
Join Date 10/2009
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Reply #5 February 12, 2012 9:17:33 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Cover bonus would be nice ... if these maps had any terrain.

 

And maybe not magical bows ... but magical arrows? and poisoned arrows?   (and maybe a poisoned blades too)

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seanw3
Join Date 12/2007
+141
Reply #6 February 12, 2012 9:44:42 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Cover bonus and accuracy spots can be modded in if they aren't in the vanilla. I can't imagine why they wouldn't be though. 

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xaltotun
Stupidity10
Join Date 09/2010
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Reply #7 February 12, 2012 11:15:50 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Because nothing we have heard shows any ambition for adding actual tactics to tactical combat? (3min rule)

Please correct me if I am wrong

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xaltotun
seanw3
Join Date 12/2007
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Reply #8 February 12, 2012 11:20:14 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Yes, but adding the much needed tile bonuses to tactical maps doesn't slow gameplay down. It has been indicated that we will be able to place units before starting a battle, though not confirmed. It would simply be a matter of placing archers at one of the good ranged points and adding cover at certain points throughout the map. This is probably one of the last things we will see added. There are probably several factors in the AI that need to be ironed out first. 

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xaltotun
CdrRogdan
Join Date 04/2009
+23
Reply #9 February 12, 2012 11:28:28 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Cover bonuses from other units would be better. In that you can't 'fire through' groups of enemies directly in front of your target, and you recieve accuracy penalties when firing over them. Accuracy penalties for range would be good. Range restrictions are not as that destroys the fundemental purpose of ranged units. Plus assuming that units can cross the tactical map in one turn being still a thing, it would make building them pretty pointless.

Of course something may need to be done about how quickly accuracy bonuses level beyond hope of dodging.

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xaltotun
seanw3
Join Date 12/2007
+141
Reply #10 February 12, 2012 11:39:53 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Accuracy get ridiculous later in the game. IMO this should only be the case for Archer Heroes.

I am trying hard not to get my hopes up for the level of range depth you describe. I would love to have it, but the devs haven't given any hints as to long term archery development goals. Maybe this is on their list. Apparently there are some pretty awesome things being added after release, like Multiplayer.

Given the distance between units, bows should have a chance to hit everything. It's a small map. 

 

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xaltotun
ManiiNames
Join Date 03/2006
+27
Reply #11 February 12, 2012 11:43:40 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Right now bows are pretty crippled by having a low and non-increasing attack value.  Against someone with good armour they really don't do much at all unless you are using Curse or the 66% AP longbows at the end of the tech tree.  

Are Archer units useful and good to have?  Definitely, I always build them.  They're great for killing squishier targets.  But for killing big stuff they kinda suck IMO, I don't think that making them weaker is a good idea.  One exception - if you can cast Stinking Mud and Mass Curse (hey Kul-Al-Kulan!) then archers become godlike.

That being said, I am all for tactical diversity, I wish that something would get me to build (other than in special circumstances) melee units other than Spearmen with the Charge trait.  I am trying to get a good long game going where I accumulate a lot of crystal, and going the magic route instead of iron weapons and armour.  It hasn't happened yet though as Crystal seems to be more rare than iron.

- Manii Names

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xaltotun
Alstein
Join Date 07/2004
+55
Reply #12 February 12, 2012 11:57:25 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I think, at a minimum, shields should give an extra bonus vs arrows.

 

That said, there's plenty of time to balance tweak things, and I can see a scenario where archery becomes better through tweaks to other things like STR.

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xaltotun
seanw3
Join Date 12/2007
+141
Reply #13 February 13, 2012 12:01:02 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Lightning spear cavalry are pretty damn cool. I am currently testing for my mods, but every once in a while I try out some magical things just for the heck of it. 

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xaltotun
ManiiNames
Join Date 03/2006
+27
Reply #14 February 13, 2012 12:07:15 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Yea I have build some cavalry, I outfitted them with Legendary Broadswords from the special tech I learned by defeating the Arena.  Of course the game crashed and ate all my saves (special tech is anathema for some reason) before they saw much use.

- Manii Names

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