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During this time there will be a delay in answering support tickets, so we ask for your patience during the holiday period.  While we will keep tabs on the tickets during the break, we will respond to them as quickly as possible upon our return.  

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The plague expands

By on January 26, 2012 6:23:00 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
+1120

Greetings!

imageToday Beta 1A (0.76) of Elemental: Fallen Enchantress.  This beta has been made available to everyone who purchased Elemental: War of Magic before November 1, 2010.

The feedback from beta 1 has been very positive and also very helpful. We’ve still got a lot of work ahead of us but it’s good to know that we’re on the right track.

There’s been a lot of changes made to 0.76 which can read below.  We won’t be tipping our hand on what new things we’ll be adding but I think players will be pleased with some of the additions we’ll be making.

The next planned update (beta 1B) will be roughly two weeks from now when it’ll get opened up to everyone who purchased War of Magic in 2010 or earlier.

Also, please vote in the survey if you have the beta to give us an overall idea of how you’re feeling about the beta.

Full Change log:

Download:

Fallen Enchantress Beta 1 patch 1 (version 0.76) is available for download from the Stardock store.  You should find a patch update if you already have the game installed (so you don't have redownload the whole game).  Players installing for the first time will need to apply the "Full Beta" download and then download and install the "Beta Update".

https://store.stardock.com/myaccount/products


Features:

+ Added Edge Scrolling (defaults to on, can be disabled in game options)

Bugs:

+ Fixed an issue that kept players with captured drake and forest drake lairs from being able to train them

+ Added temp tile designs for Drake camps, Forest Drake camps, Mercenary camps, Naja camps, Ogre camps, Ophidian camps, Troll camps and Wilding camps

+ Naja, Ogres and Ophidians are now recruited as single units.

+ Fixed an issue that was causing swamps in the players ZoC to look like forests.

+ Fixed a lost device crash in desktop mode.

+ Fixed an issue with the arena tactical battle arena.

+ Fixed a crash attempting to fill the environment map if the sectormapper isnt initiated.

+ Fixed a bug with the Run Wild (Varkana's) quest.

+ Ring of Storms isn't available for unit design anymore.

+ Fixed a bug with Mantle of Oceans that was causing it to increase tactical spell cost instead of decrease it.

+ Fixed Throwing Knives.

+ Fixed the Powerful custom faction ability.

+ No more pauses when Air Elementals cast spells.

+ No more pauses when Troll Shamans cas spells.

+ Fixed bug where if a leader of an army was killed, their surviving sub units were not reformed into a new army, which was manifested as if you killed the leader in an army, but ended up losing the battle, the entire other army still died.

+ Fixed an issue that allows the build button to work on resources that are outside of your ZoC.

+ Fixed an issue with a conversation tag from Resoln to Yithril.

+ Fixed an issue with a conversation tag from Gilden to Resoln.

+ Fixed AI bug where pioneers would never look for a city unless they had escorts, even if the destination area is safe

+ Fixed bug where AI would declare war on players it has never met

+ Got rid of several repetiative debug messages.

+ Fixed crash bug that would occasionally occur on loading a saved game

+ Optimized load save game code to reduce big game loading times from >2 minutes to <30 seconds

+ Fixed crash bug where unit stats were being modified by multiple threads at once

+ Fixed crash bug where modifiers were being modified by multiple threads at once

+ Removed critical seciton around GetHarvestPerTurn() that caused deadlocks

+ ProcessEvents only occurs every other frame to improve framerate (this should be followed-up with more cleaning of the event queue)

+ Auto Saving now has a Debug.err message around it so we can easily tell if a crash occurred during autosave

+ Fixed bug that caused turns to get stuck on occasion

+ UpdatePioneerImpAssociatedCities() moved to a background thread so that late game animation remains smooth

+ Fixed crash bug related to Pioneer Improvements being reassociated

+ Fixed bug that caused AI to cast strategic spells from the main game thread

+ Fixed AI bug where it would send a pioneer unit to a location too close to a city and try to build there and get stuck

+ More cowbell

+ Fixed crash bug where background thread was trying to update the UI

+ Fixed crash bug related to a unit being added to a city in multiple threads at once.

+ Fixed crash bug related to a unit being clicked on in a city at the same time as a background thread was accessing the unit

+ Moved Increment Hitpoints to the top of the event list because it's one of the most common events (performance)

+ Rewrote OnEndGame() to clean up data more cleanly

+ Fixed deadlock related to GetCityByIndex()

+ Fixed deadlock related to GetCityCount()

+ Fixed AI bug where it would go to a quest location that has already been visited

+ Fixed a missing tile design for the clay quarry

+ Fixed the clay quarry so it correctly gives a material

+ Fixed the empty lairs on the Northern Waste wildland

+ Fixed some empty lairs on the Burning Lands wildland

+ Fixed memory leaks

+ Fixed the white particle effects in the Fog of War

+ Torax's head trophy will now correctly increase the gildar of your city

+ Fixed an issue that was keeping you from casting tactical spells if you didnt have the original mana cost (you couldnt cast fireball for 15 mana with bonuses if you didnt have 30 mana because its original mana cost is 30)

+ Fixed an issue that was keeping army bonuses form being applied unless it was from the armies leader

+ Fixed a hung tactical battle issue when an ai opponent couldnt get to an enemy

+ Fixed a hung tactical battle issue when an ai archer tried to make a melee attack

Balance:

+ Regeneration also works in tactical combat (instead of just on the world map).

+ Magical Bows are more common as loot drops.

+ You can recruit more darkling and wilding warriors from those lairs

+ You can design units with Ignys Bows now with Arcane Weaponry (and archer will upgrade to them).

+ Giant Form and Growth can only be cast on sovereigns or champions.

+ Berserker's Axe reduced from 20 Attack to 10.

+ Berserker's Broadsword reduced from 22 Attack to 11.

+ Made the following level changes to monsters:

Abeix: 15 -> 18
Ashwake Dragon: 10 -> 15
Clambercoil Dragon: 7 -> 12
Delin: 15 -> 19
Drake: 8 -> 11
Fell Dragon: 9 -> 13
Forest Drake: 6 -> 9
Giant Rock Spider: 6 -> 8
Hoarder Spider: 8 -> 10
Morian: 15 -> 19
River Slag: 5 -> 9
Sarog: 12 -> 17
Shrill Lord: 9 -> 12
Slag: 7 -> 10
Storm Dragon: 9 -> 13
Torax: 15 -> 18
Vetrar: 15 -> 20

+ Might now gives +3 Attack instead of +1 Attack per Level

+ Discipline is now a custom sovereign ability

+ Verga starts with Discipline instead of Might

+ Increased the XP needed between levels

+ The Hallowed Rite trait is only available to Resoln (or custom factions using the Wraith race)

+ Caravans are limited per city.  2 become available with Trading, an additional one is added with economics

+ Road Warriors faction trait is renamed Legacy of Serrane and it also grants an additional Caravan per city

+ Champions get injuries if they fall in combat (even if you win the battle)

+ Warrior Temple and Warrior College are both 1 per Faction

+ Late game tech costs reduced

+ Many Mid/Late game Improvement costs increased

+ Ice Elementals can cast Slow

+ Apothecaries produce 3 research per material instead of 1

+ Lightning Pike doesn't require metal to produce (crystal cost increased)

+ Boreal Blade doesn't require metal to produce (crystal cost increased)

+ Maul gives -4 Accuracy per strike instead of -3

+ Merchants reduced from +3 Gildar per season to +2

+ Added a Research cost modifier by map size (tiny is 0.7, small 0.9, medium 1.0 and large 1.1)

+ Reduced Tech Cost Percentage Increase Per Tech from 10% to 5%

+ Town Hall moved form city level 3 to 4

+ Almshouse produces Diplomatic Capital instead of reducing Unrest

+ Hedge Walls and Wooden Walls require city level 3, Forts and Castles requires city level 4, Fortresses require city level 5

+ Theater is limited to 1 per Faction

+ Arena is limited to 1 per Faction

+ Watermills only give +2 Production per Material instead of +5.

Cosmetic:

+ Added a description tag to the Adventurer ability

+ Added icons for the Horn of Sarog, Fist of Vetrar and the Eye of Abeix trophies

+ Fixed a minor word wrapping issue with the civics ability

+ Tarth males cant wear the ladies satin shirts anymore

+ Fixed a missing cloth map icon with the Rats Nest

+ Made the prisoner quest text more clear.

+ Fixed a text overlap issue on the Unit screen.

+ New shield idle for the equipment screens (so it doesn't obscure the characters face).

+ Clarified the description text on the infirmary.

+ Fixed a typo in the Vetrar conversation

+ Fixed a typo int he Slave Lord ability

+ Added a "+x research" to goodie huts that give you research, before it was hard to tell what they were doing

+ Notification stay maximized for 15 seconds instead of 3

AI:

+ AI less aggressive in dealing with trespassers on its territory

+ AI more aggressive about recruiting champions

+ AI Scouts will now move towards unrecruited champions that it finds to recruit them

+ AI less cautious about going on quests

+ AI will defend its bigger cities better

+ AI handles strategic spells much more intelligently

+ AI sovereign will cast spells that only can be cast on champions

 

Update #1: Hot Patch (Data update – these get streamed to you when you load up the game automatically.):

+ Acrobat ability gives +4 dex instead of +1 dex / level

+ Fixed the Lucky faction ability

+ Added a cost to the Endless Legion faction ability

+ Reduced the likelihood of getting Path levelup abilities

+ Fixed the Quick faction ability

+ Fixed the Vulnerable faction ability

+ Fixed the Weak faction ability

+ Corrected the description on the Wealthy faction ability

+ Telescopes aren't available for unit design anymore

+ Fixed a type in the growth potion description

+ Salted pork now correctly heals 8 damage

+ Corrected the description on the Blight scroll

+ Fixed an issue allowing Csilla, Irdael and Norak to get Acrobat twice

+ Increased the amount of XP required per level (especialy at higher levels)

+ Halved the amount of the players Dexterity that feeds into Dodge

+ Increased Tech Cost Percentage Increase Per Tech from 5% to 10%

79 Replies +1
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January 27, 2012 12:45:51 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Downloaded it..... played it.... conclusion:  needs more cowbell!

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January 27, 2012 12:53:11 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Kravick3,
The download keeps interrupting for some reason.  I've tried downloading the game 7 times now and every time it gets to about 50-60 MB downloaded, the download closes and says the file finished downloading.  Obviously it hasn't if says it only downloaded about 50 MB.  I understand there are probably a lot of people downloading this file right now but why does it keep disconnecting like this?  No, not using a router.

Try a different Browser. Had the same Problem in IE9, worked after I tried again in FireFox.

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January 27, 2012 1:08:33 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I had the download end suddenly at around 630 megs the first time.  I'm about 73% done this time around as I type this.  As I only have about 5 GB to work with for the month (wireless internet), here's to hoping I get all of it this time.  Firefox 8 BTW.

I'd be curious as to why 'resumable downloads' aren't happening, as it would have been nice to be able to resume my previious download, rather than having a corrupted 630 meg file...

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January 27, 2012 2:16:03 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting MightyM79,

Quoting Kravick3, reply 50The download keeps interrupting for some reason.  I've tried downloading the game 7 times now and every time it gets to about 50-60 MB downloaded, the download closes and says the file finished downloading.  Obviously it hasn't if says it only downloaded about 50 MB.  I understand there are probably a lot of people downloading this file right now but why does it keep disconnecting like this?  No, not using a router.
Try a different Browser. Had the same Problem in IE9, worked after I tried again in FireFox.

 

That did the trick.  I have no idea why this kept happening.  Strangely enough, I had the exact opposite problem as you.  I normally use Firefox but it wouldn't go past 60 MB.  Then I was able to download the entire file the first time using IE.

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January 27, 2012 2:53:27 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Satrhan,

And finaly, I'm missing some characteristic buildings that make cities not only specialised, but individualised. For example a military city that has not only an Military Academy, but also the Royal Stables, an Enchanted Forge, and a Temple of Life; making this city Paladin-central, the source of my elite troops, the backbone of my army. Or the overcrowded metropolis that is the scene of a power struggle between the thieves guild and the merchants guild, making this city a good source of cheap troops and interesting events.
This is a bit harder to nail down, but I miss something that makes cities more than just Military city 1, research city 3, gold city 6, etc. I think some rare buildings could help with this, especially if they can interact with other equally rare buildings in interesting ways.

I definitely agree on this part, and it got me thinking - mutually exclusive buildings would go a long way towards making cities feel unique. What if you can have your Temple of Life that allows you to train soldiers with paladinesque healing/smiting abilities, or an Assassin's Guild that allows soldiers with poisons or crit bonuses.. but the paladins and assassins will not tolerate living side by side, so you only get to build one in a given city? And to really make the entire city (not just the units it can train) distinct from others, give the buildings significant economic effects as well - the Temple reduces unrest and increases production, and units stationed in the city heal much faster; the Guild increases unrest but provides a gold income and growth bonus. Now military city #1 is the zealous holy city of paladins, and military city #2 is the seedy metropolis where assassins thrive, you're never going to confuse the two.

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January 27, 2012 4:20:04 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Satrhan,




Alright then. First off, I agree with you on improvement placement. It just leads to a lot of weirdness, snaking being the worst offender. Personally I would like to see one-tile cities or one-tile-per-level cities with building handled in the city management screen. But that being a bit of a long shot, I'd settle for some hard limits on how many tiles a city can occupy. This tile limit could increase with leveling. This will force you to make some choices in what you build. I'd also limit building to just the tiles around the city hub. Resources could be included in the city, but only if you build the hub right next to it. This should count towards the tile limit, making including it a choice with some drawbacks as well.

Vouching for weirdness of tile placement. The only mechanic behind that is snaking the cities... The tile limit seems to be sort of artificial. To me the more natural way how to balance stuff is to adjust the costs. So you can build everything, but it will tak long and you wont be able to train units in between. Btw. having one common queue for both buildings and units is yay!

 

Quoting Satrhan,

Second, the scale of what you're building is off (I'm not talking about graphics). Being the sovereign, you shouldn't be involved in mundane tasks like placing gardens, granaries, workshops, and pubs. Like you said, you should be making decisions about the role of a city (military, research, production, etc). Those are large scale decisions, and the corresponding buildings should be large, requiring a significant investment of time and materials. Building a fortress for instance should be a lengthy and costly undertaking.

Disagree here a lot. While you might feel that it is unrealistic (in a fantasy elemental world doh), it is part of game and gaming. In civs u also build the buildings. In HOMAM you build buildings too. Every spacefaring game - you build buildings. Do you remember MoO3? Quite complex sophisticated and detailed with regards to planet development (and imbalanced and disasterous tactical battles). Since the number of planets was potentially quite large, they developed an interesting governor and one level higher - managment system. So planets were divided into groups like borders, core, industrial, farm etc. You set up the managment and governors do your will. While perhaps "realistic" it was incredibly boring! Because after pressing next turn 100x in a row you realize that you are no longer playing. Why create a complex system and then build AI above it which takes care of everyting?

Quoting Satrhan,

Third, there are a lot of no-brainer buildings. Take the Beacon of Hope for instance. The only decision about it is when to build it, first or after a few other buildings. Since you'll always build it in your capital anyway, why not include it in it automatically? (In WoM the capital could have different properties than normal cities, so it shouldn't be hard to do). But there are more such buildings. A lot of them have to do with food and production. Like the workshop, or the +1 grain or +x food per grain buildings. They are almost always a good idea to build, only decision again being when to build it. Just adding more (maintenance) costs to them wouldn't make them more interesting.

Well, seems quite related to previous point. If you make lot of things completely automatic, there is no game. And you still can delay the beacon and start pouting out pioneers or whatever....

 

Quoting Satrhan,

One way to address the previous two points could be the re-introduction of the farmers/craftsmen/peasants/malcontents division. (Any comment on why that system didn't make it into the game, it sounded good?) I've made a more in depth post about it here http://forums.elementalgame.com/415796 . I think this system could add a lot, through both giving you more control over the city, and removing the need for a lot of utility buildings.

this seems to contradict your second point - why should sovereing care about exact number of farmers...?

 

Quoting Satrhan,

And finaly, I'm missing some characteristic buildings that make cities not only specialised, but individualised. For example a military city that has not only an Military Academy, but also the Royal Stables, an Enchanted Forge, and a Temple of Life; making this city Paladin-central, the source of my elite troops, the backbone of my army. Or the overcrowded metropolis that is the scene of a power struggle between the thieves guild and the merchants guild, making this city a good source of cheap troops and interesting events.
This is a bit harder to nail down, but I miss something that makes cities more than just Military city 1, research city 3, gold city 6, etc. I think some rare buildings could help with this, especially if they can interact with other equally rare buildings in interesting ways.

I agree, more world/nation wonder-kind of buildings? This seems to be "only" content problem, not really a mechanic, so it shouold be easy to add/mod that in.

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January 27, 2012 5:09:02 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I feel a little green around the gills. The game is getting to me!

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January 27, 2012 5:43:21 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
For instance, I don't like having improvement placement at all. I'd prefer that players chose their building and the game simply placed the improvement taking out the whole location thing because it creates the implication that placement matters and it really doesn't other than "snaking" which really isn't a very good mechanic.
If snaking goes away we need another way to wall off choke points.

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January 27, 2012 5:46:52 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Nakor,
Blooder27, Yehudah, tjashen, LightEcho, bazerka250, and anyone else in the window through October 31, 2010 should have account records as of 10pm EST tonight. You won't have an email until tomorrow, but the records have been updated. Sorry about the delay.

Kris
Sure enough...no email yet but at 0500 the beta download is waiting for me at Stardock.  

 

Downloading now.

 

Thank you very much.

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January 27, 2012 6:10:30 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Thanks to the devteam and everybody. It's really encouraging to see this long list of changes. And it is even more satisfying to see that in the last week all 10 tickets with bugs/crashes I opened got closed, makes me feel like I really got an impact and help make the game better for myself and others. Keep up the good work.

 

Only downside, next patch in 2 weeks? Would have liked it if we'd have kept up with a weekly release. Release early and release often my iterative development friends

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January 27, 2012 6:18:48 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting krejci,

Vouching for weirdness of tile placement. The only mechanic behind that is snaking the cities... The tile limit seems to be sort of artificial. To me the more natural way how to balance stuff is to adjust the costs. So you can build everything, but it will tak long and you wont be able to train units in between. Btw. having one common queue for both buildings and units is yay!

I'm not a fan of tile limits either, but I've come to think it's one of the only ways to balance things and force the player to make decisions. If not, how would you prevent a lvl 5 city with good production from eventually building everything?



Disagree here a lot. While you might feel that it is unrealistic (in a fantasy elemental world doh), it is part of game and gaming. In civs u also build the buildings. In HOMAM you build buildings too. Every spacefaring game - you build buildings. Do you remember MoO3? Quite complex sophisticated and detailed with regards to planet development (and imbalanced and disasterous tactical battles). Since the number of planets was potentially quite large, they developed an interesting governor and one level higher - managment system. So planets were divided into groups like borders, core, industrial, farm etc. You set up the managment and governors do your will. While perhaps "realistic" it was incredibly boring! Because after pressing next turn 100x in a row you realize that you are no longer playing. Why create a complex system and then build AI above it which takes care of everyting?

...


Well, seems quite related to previous point. If you make lot of things completely automatic, there is no game. And you still can delay the beacon and start pouting out pioneers or whatever....

I'm not in any way suggesting that building is removed or automated. Just that the busywork is reduced. This is a grand strategy game, not sim city. You shouldn't be placing huts and pubs any more than you should be bothered about steet layout. In civ you build city walls, libraries, hospitals, power plants, and space elevators. That is the scale you should be dealing with in this game as well.


this seems to contradict your second point - why should sovereing care about exact number of farmers...?


Only slightly. Part of it is reducing the number of buildings you are dealing with and reducing the city size on the map. But a large part of it has to do with differentiation. It allows differentiation between a small town and a big city with some of the same buildings, it allows differentiation between rich and poor civilizations, it allows for more differentiation the further you get in the tech tree. And it allows for adapting your strategy, while having buildings determine everything is very static by its very nature. And if nothing else, from an immersion point of view it might help with feeling like you rule a people, rather than a bunch of buildings.

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January 27, 2012 9:04:35 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Austinvn,
Quoting Satrhan, reply 49
And finaly, I'm missing some characteristic buildings that make cities not only specialised, but individualised. For example a military city that has not only an Military Academy, but also the Royal Stables, an Enchanted Forge, and a Temple of Life; making this city Paladin-central, the source of my elite troops, the backbone of my army. Or the overcrowded metropolis that is the scene of a power struggle between the thieves guild and the merchants guild, making this city a good source of cheap troops and interesting events.
This is a bit harder to nail down, but I miss something that makes cities more than just Military city 1, research city 3, gold city 6, etc. I think some rare buildings could help with this, especially if they can interact with other equally rare buildings in interesting ways.

I definitely agree on this part, and it got me thinking - mutually exclusive buildings would go a long way towards making cities feel unique. What if you can have your Temple of Life that allows you to train soldiers with paladinesque healing/smiting abilities, or an Assassin's Guild that allows soldiers with poisons or crit bonuses.. but the paladins and assassins will not tolerate living side by side, so you only get to build one in a given city? And to really make the entire city (not just the units it can train) distinct from others, give the buildings significant economic effects as well - the Temple reduces unrest and increases production, and units stationed in the city heal much faster; the Guild increases unrest but provides a gold income and growth bonus. Now military city #1 is the zealous holy city of paladins, and military city #2 is the seedy metropolis where assassins thrive, you're never going to confuse the two.

I like the idea. How about a “pick a guild” choice when the city turns level 4? There are several guilds to choose from, and each guild has certain effects:

  • It will make 2 unique buildings available in the city, one of which allows unique traits to be added to your units, potentially with city-level requirements
  • It will grant a zero-sum collection of bonus/maluses to the city
  • When the city is attacked, one additional unit of a specific type will be added to the standard bunch of defenders

Examples of guilds: Warriors, Paladins, Mages, Assassins, Monks, Engineers, Merchants, Artists, Warlocks, Thieves.

Examples of the impact of the Paladins Guild on a city:

  • Two unique buildings can be built:
    • Fountain of Heaven: troops in the city heal 3x faster and get a magic resistance bonus when defending, maitainance cost for troops in the city is halved, etc...
    • Temple of Righteousness: units built in the city automatically gain +20 res to death spells, and can be trained to learn
      • Lay Hands ability (city level 5 required): to be used once per combat to heal allied units
      • Evil Hunter: +8 attack and defense against death creatures
  • It lowers research in the city by 10% and increases production by 10%.

  • A unit of paladins with Lay Hands and Evil Hunter is added to the standard defenders in the city

Empires and Kingdoms may have access to slightly different sets of guilds. Even more, different factions may have different bonus/malus to build the buildings of a certain guild. Trade between two cities is improved if they have the same guilds. Each guild has an “enemy guild” so that two cities cannot trade if they have enemy guilds in them. The couples of enemy guilds could be, for example:

Warriors – Assassins

Mages – Monks

Paladins – Warlocks   (these could be Kingdoms’ and Empires’ specific)

Engineers – Artists

Merchants – Thieves

This could give some more unique flavor to cities and to factions as well. What do you think?

Ps: I have not played the beta, only watched some videos, so I apologize upfront for anything out of context here!

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January 27, 2012 9:33:12 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Cruxador,
If snaking goes away we need another way to wall off choke points.

 

This is the only real part of snaking I like. It would be good to see some other mechanic replace this somehow. Most other games let you shut off your area to others, so you can use your ZOC to block choke points.

Anyone have any ideas on a mechanic to replace that?

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January 27, 2012 9:39:07 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


I like the guild idea, its well thought out, detailed and different from other ideas presented.

I agree with the other posters that city building as it is needs to be improved. Now I can afford to build everything for every city and every city looks alike. In the LOTR and SW movies each city had a unique look.

Perhaps a city could build improvements linked to Earth OR Fire OR Water or AIR

A sovereign with access to Earth Magic could have an option to build

Great Tree (build one of two options) where the player can build a Tree of Life (Maint +2) or a Tree of Death (Maint +2)

  • Tree of Life (think Avatar) that would tower over the other buildings and open up research options for more Earth Magic / Nature Spells along with giving defending units in the city healing of +3hp per tactical combat round/season OR
  • Tree of Death (Vines) that covers the tactical battleground in vines that reduce the movement of attackers by 1 unless they resist each turn and opens up more research branches for Earth Magic/Nature Spells. This lengthens the time it takes to close with the defenders and exposes them to more archer attacks.

Scorpian Tree Fortifications - scorpians on large trees that shoots arrows at attacking units (i.e. bonus non-moving defensive archer unit). You can build this several times, each one built gives the city an additional defensive non-moving scorpian unit. (Maint +1 per scorpian)

The scorpio was a smaller catapult-type weapon, more of a sniper weapon than a siege engine, being operated by only one man. The scorpio was basically a primitive giant crossbow, a "catapult with bolts", probably first invented by the Greeks, then later adopted and used on a larger scale by the Roman legions. This catapult used a system of torsion springs, making it possible to obtain very great power and thus a high speed of ejection for the bolts.

Forest Wall - that triggers a special tactical map for defenders of this city (Maint +1). Forest wall funnels the attackers into a narrow access point and exposes them to attack from several defending units. (Maint +1) Forest wall sections can be destroyed by fire or damage.

Ranger School -  Allows a trait that allows units to enter tactical combat forest tiles (not allowed to normal units) where they receive a +10 bonus to dodge. (Maint +1)

Earth Academy - Opens research branches for new earth spells. (Maint +1). If razed you lose access to these research branches and any uncompleted research investment in these branches.

A sovereign with access to Water Magic might have an option to build:

Dam (if adjacent to a river) - The dam can be opened in combat to flood the battlefield giving access to a new tactical map with impassible water covered sections that funnel attackers into a choke point. (It takes 4 seasons to recharge a dam for use again) (Maint +2, and it generates +3GP & -10% unrest per turn if charged (i.e. not opened and not recharging).

Moat - On the tactical map attackers must cross a moat to reach the defenders. The moat reduces their movement by 1, giving the defenders an extra turn or two to organize their defenses. Units in Plate cannot cross the moat. (Maint +1)

Water Academy - Opens research branches for new water spells (Maint +1)

Elemental Pool - Summons a Guardian Water Elemental if the city is attacked

Canals - A city next to a water source; river or ocean city is surrounded by canals. This changes the tactical map to show canals (water barriers) and bridges that limit the access routes of any attacker. Attackers in Metal Armor (chain and plate) cannot move accross the water barriers but they can cross the bridges. (Main +2)

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January 27, 2012 9:47:27 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Vallu751,
I have to agree with Lord Xia on this one. We all saw what 'Design by comittee' did to WoM. The caravan system for example. It sounded like such a great idea before we got to see it in practise.

 

I would argue that quite a large bit of what was suggested (and there were some amazing suggestions) was NOT implemented into WOM.

I would even go so far as to say that WOM may have been better if it had.

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January 27, 2012 11:40:23 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Some good ideas here.  I have to say that with this last update (although I can't put my finger on why) I finally have that just-one-more-turn feel!  This will become even better (hopefully) with the development of more ways for a city to specialize.  Great Beta so far!!

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January 27, 2012 12:55:38 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Not 1 hour after I posted this I got into the beta.Thanks Stardock.

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January 27, 2012 2:50:39 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

another weekend at work... because I don't have internet at home... Stardock makes me a workaholic... 

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January 27, 2012 3:15:06 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Das123,
Would be good to know what you'll be looking at. Just so we can either add some early ideas or stop spamming the things we don't like (Caravans etc).

What's wrong with Caravans? I personally like them except we need better way of keeping track of them

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January 27, 2012 3:29:43 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I don't like the caravans and I really hate the road system. I want roads. Lots more roads.

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January 27, 2012 4:18:08 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Bellack,

Quoting Das123, reply 6Would be good to know what you'll be looking at. Just so we can either add some early ideas or stop spamming the things we don't like (Caravans etc).


What's wrong with Caravans? I personally like them except we need better way of keeping track of them

I don't want to keep track of them. Don't like the micro for something that should just be established and have caravans respawn slowly after they die (just my opinion).

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January 27, 2012 5:24:42 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Love Brad's comments about getting rid of manual placement of improvements, and making cities more unique.  As a builder, those two things will make me very happy!

 

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January 27, 2012 10:03:18 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Satrhan,

Quoting Frogboy, reply 36
Certainly feel free to discuss what you don't like about it.  


Alright then. First off, I agree with you on improvement placement. It just leads to a lot of weirdness, snaking being the worst offender. Personally I would like to see one-tile cities or one-tile-per-level cities with building handled in the city management screen. But that being a bit of a long shot, I'd settle for some hard limits on how many tiles a city can occupy. This tile limit could increase with leveling. This will force you to make some choices in what you build. I'd also limit building to just the tiles around the city hub. Resources could be included in the city, but only if you build the hub right next to it. This should count towards the tile limit, making including it a choice with some drawbacks as well.

Second, the scale of what you're building is off (I'm not talking about graphics). Being the sovereign, you shouldn't be involved in mundane tasks like placing gardens, granaries, workshops, and pubs. Like you said, you should be making decisions about the role of a city (military, research, production, etc). Those are large scale decisions, and the corresponding buildings should be large, requiring a significant investment of time and materials. Building a fortress for instance should be a lengthy and costly undertaking.

Third, there are a lot of no-brainer buildings. Take the Beacon of Hope for instance. The only decision about it is when to build it, first or after a few other buildings. Since you'll always build it in your capital anyway, why not include it in it automatically? (In WoM the capital could have different properties than normal cities, so it shouldn't be hard to do). But there are more such buildings. A lot of them have to do with food and production. Like the workshop, or the +1 grain or +x food per grain buildings. They are almost always a good idea to build, only decision again being when to build it. Just adding more (maintenance) costs to them wouldn't make them more interesting.

One way to address the previous two points could be the re-introduction of the farmers/craftsmen/peasants/malcontents division. (Any comment on why that system didn't make it into the game, it sounded good?) I've made a more in depth post about it here http://forums.elementalgame.com/415796 . I think this system could add a lot, through both giving you more control over the city, and removing the need for a lot of utility buildings.

And finaly, I'm missing some characteristic buildings that make cities not only specialised, but individualised. For example a military city that has not only an Military Academy, but also the Royal Stables, an Enchanted Forge, and a Temple of Life; making this city Paladin-central, the source of my elite troops, the backbone of my army. Or the overcrowded metropolis that is the scene of a power struggle between the thieves guild and the merchants guild, making this city a good source of cheap troops and interesting events.
This is a bit harder to nail down, but I miss something that makes cities more than just Military city 1, research city 3, gold city 6, etc. I think some rare buildings could help with this, especially if they can interact with other equally rare buildings in interesting ways.

 

Hey! Now this is what everyone wanted to hear from you! Nice ideas! I think most of those people giving you grief would probably agree with you, too.

 

I really like your idea of types of buildings and resources combining to define the type of city, as well as the units available there. A paladin city sounds cool! I also agree that limiting the number of tiles per city level, while at the same time making the buildings have a lot more polarizing effects would indeed make building choices much more interesting and important.

Brad: I agree that there are some buildings throughout the tech tree that essentially give the same materials/grains/research boosts. If there were tile limits, making these buildings upgrade to larger/more advanced versions of themselves might be a good way to limit the snaking and sprawl, as well as the stress of placing buildings, while granting the evolving increase of potential for these cities to produce the various resources.

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January 27, 2012 10:09:04 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Edwin99,

I like the guild idea, its well thought out, detailed and different from other ideas presented.

I agree with the other posters that city building as it is needs to be improved. Now I can afford to build everything for every city and every city looks alike. In the LOTR and SW movies each city had a unique look.

Perhaps a city could build improvements linked to Earth OR Fire OR Water or AIR...

A sovereign with access to Earth Magic could have an option to build

Great Tree (for example)

Nice stuff! If there were special buildings available to sovereign's magic schools, race, faction, as well as quest-granted, and city level-up (specialization and randomness), that would be a lot of potential combinations, making replayability and strategy skyrocket.

I think we're on to something here!

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January 28, 2012 12:33:36 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Also, perhaps in an expansion, PLEASE PLEASE let us craft or imbue, choose an icon for and NAME our equipment/weapons/armor !!! I loved the way MoM allowed you to construct magical weapons and give them meaninful names, and I would LOVE a the ability to do this in FE (perhaps through a spell, an ability or a forge building)...

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