Flagship Kol? » Forum Post by Theory5

Flagship just means the Kol Battleship is the highest level capital ship for a player, any capital ship can be the flagship. Sadly, it doesn't mean much at the moment.

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Its uses are as a damage-soak brick and as an anti-strikecraft ship... that's about it... "flagship" is just a name, nothing more.

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Indeed, Kol is just a super flak frigate and a damage sink. You could maybe use it as a sniper with GRG, but it drains AM a bit too fast and leaves Kol vulnerable.

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Two Kols with GRG level 2+ can take out many caps before they can retreat, unless they stay out of range completely. Very handy if the enemy isn't going bomber-heavy. I was amazed at how effective Sire was at it.

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Since we're on the discussion of Kol (And I feel my question probably doesn't warrant a new topic)....

I just reread through a post that someone rezzed that was essentially people talking trash about the Kol in the early game. And from what all I've looked up through the forums and the wiki (very limited experience with the game and it was only in singleplayer, just getting the game for multiplayer this month with my new xmas computer) I completely understand why everyone says it's a terrible early-game cap compared to the Akkan (for slow starts) and the Sova (for fast starts). Apparently, even the AI have figured out that even the Dunov is a better start then the poor old Kol.

But what about Late-Game? I've seen some stuff on the subject that, backed up by a couple of Dunovs and Hoshikos, they can make the Kol hard as nails to kill... but is it worth it? From what I'm reading, even with the reduce AM costs brought by the Dunovs, the Kol is a AM sink. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like I would be better off even in late game to just go with another Marza or Sova. Or better yet, since it seems all the Kol is good for is Flak Burst, I was wondering if the supply would be better spent on more Gardas and w/e else?

Appreciate the replies, and I apologize if this should of been in a new topic, but forums I've been apart of in the past prefer to keep the clutter to a minimum. Oh, and nice to meet you all .

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It really just depends on the situation... If you're fighting off a lot of bombers, the sova, being able to field lots of fighters is better equipped, not that it would survive any longer because it wouldn't, but you at least give the rest of your forces some much needed fighter cover so the bombers can't make single pass ship popping bomb runs. If you're going up against few bombers and more caps, and you yourself don't have a whole lot in the way of bombers, it's better in my opinion to get the GRG for your Kol and unload on their big ships. If you're facing frigate bulk/spam, go with the Marza and it's missile barrage. Omnomnomnom XP.

Wrath is one of them ICO regulars who doesn't mind helping out the newbies so make him a friend and you'll get lots of good info about this stuff and what counters what the best even if you don't care to play much on ICO right now. The strategy is still the same offline and it's better to start off right and use the AI for training purposes to get to ICO then to learn on the AI and have to learn all over again against people.

Quoting Whisker_Fish,

reply 5

and I apologize if this should of been in a new topic, but forums I've been apart of in the past prefer to keep the clutter to a minimum.

Nope. You've done good. Cookie for you.

Quoting Whisker_Fish,

reply 5

Oh, and nice to meet you all

Nice to meet you too. Now get yerself a fancy avatar picture.

If vanilla becomes too plain for you, there are lots of mods to fill your hard drive up with. Rick's Galaxy has a pretty good listing.

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Quoting Whisker_Fish,

reply 5

I just reread through a post that someone rezzed that was essentially people talking trash about the Kol in the early game. And from what all I've looked up through the forums and the wiki (very limited experience with the game and it was only in singleplayer, just getting the game for multiplayer this month with my new xmas computer) I completely understand why everyone says it's a terrible early-game cap compared to the Akkan (for slow starts) and the Sova (for fast starts). Apparently, even the AI have figured out that even the Dunov is a better start then the poor old Kol.

The Akkan can actually be quite a useful starting cap even in extremely cramped games (like 5v5 single system, the most common setup online), mostly if you're playing against a less experienced player: Ion Bolt is astounding at letting your LRM take out enemy caps early-game to late-game, and Targeting Uplink allows your LRM to outrange (static) starbases.

The Sova has more firepower initially, and Embargo can be a killer early-game, but the Akkan can pay off more in the long run. Just a thought.

But what about Late-Game? I've seen some stuff on the subject that, backed up by a couple of Dunovs and Hoshikos, they can make the Kol hard as nails to kill... but is it worth it? From what I'm reading, even with the reduce AM costs brought by the Dunovs, the Kol is a AM sink. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like I would be better off even in late game to just go with another Marza or Sova. Or better yet, since it seems all the Kol is good for is Flak Burst, I was wondering if the supply would be better spent on more Gardas and w/e else?

If you're building the Kol to be a capital ship that just survives, it's probably not worth it because the enemy will simply target other more vulnerable parts of your fleet.

The Sova is pretty bad late-game. Embargo is mostly negated by trade, and strikecraft in moderate numbers are less effective because of flak...

The Marza is best for planet bombing, so if you would benefit significantly from being able to bomb a planet out and colonize/move on faster, go for it; or, if you're killing tens of frigates every minute or something and want the Marza for Missile Barrage, that can work well too.

But the Kol absolutely shines late-game. Not primarily due to its durability (although that's a notable plus), but because of Flak Burst and Finest Hour. A couple of Kols with Flak Burst level 2 are astounding at taking out huge swarms of enemy bomber squadrons. Combined with a lot of Heavy Cruisers (weak only to bombers), this strategy is excellent, if you're good at microing Flak Burst. And Finest Hour's splash damage can wipe out entire enemy fleets in under a minute, if the enemy isn't smart enough to move away for the duration.

The problem with building flak frigates instead of a Kol is that flak frigates take a long time to whittle down enemy bomber squadrons. Two Kols with level 2 Flak Burst can decimate any number of enemy bomber squadrons in less than 20 seconds.

Appreciate the replies, and I apologize if this should of been in a new topic, but forums I've been apart of in the past prefer to keep the clutter to a minimum. Oh, and nice to meet you all .

Nothing wrong with this. We're just talking about Kol strategy in a thread in the Strategy section where the title is discussing the Kol.

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Quoting Wrath89,

reply 7

The Sova has more firepower initially, and Embargo can be a killer early-game, but the Akkan can pay off more in the long run. Just a thought.

That's actually a relief to hear. In strategy games, I'm not a huge rush tactics fan. Don't get me wrong; I like the idea of sending the Sova straight for the gravity well next to my enemy's homeworld and ambushing his unsuspecting colonizer and kitting his LFs, and embargo sounds like a lot of fun to boost my economy as well as slow his down... (I heard it got nerfed though hard since I lost played Sins though ).

But I really am glad to hear that Akkan can still be a decent early game start because I really like all of the abilities of it, especially the idea of getting Armistice as soon as possible to protect my fleet. It may not be the best TEC ultimate ability, but it's a nice perk while also haivng all the early and mid game goodies.

Quoting Wrath89,

reply 7

The problem with building flak frigates instead of a Kol is that flak frigates take a long time to whittle down enemy bomber squadrons. Two Kols with level 2 Flak Burst can decimate any number of enemy bomber squadrons in less than 20 seconds.

So, flak frigates are fine for early game anti-strikecraft duties, due to facing lower numbers of them. Late-game (or at any point) where I could easily see 50+ bombers, it's much preferred to have a pair of Kol's to serve as anti-strikecraft duty, due to flak frigates being akin to DoT speed where Kol's Flak Burst is more like burst... to borrow a MMO reference.

Quoting Stant123,

reply 6

if you don't care to play much on ICO right now. The strategy is still the same offline and it's better to start off right and use the AI for training purposes to get to ICO then to learn on the AI and have to learn all over again against people.

Yah, I doubt players are actually going to be sending out that waves of siege vessels at me, or starting of with a Dunov. I'd like to use the AI to work on my timing, to work on speeding up the time it takes me to build up my fleets instead of worrying about tactics/strategies against the AI. Then once I'm re-farmilarized with the game, taking on Multiplayer.

Besides, I'm not even sure if I would prefer TEC anymore, since I'm really feeling in a strikecraft focus sort of mood, and I like the idea of PM's with the Vasari. I also like to play dirty, and the combination of PM and "cheating" has recently perked my interest. (By cheating, I mean not using phase lanes.)

Quoting Stant123,

reply 6

Now get yerself a fancy avatar picture.

I do like cookies... I'll give you a cookie if you can guess where my avatar picture comes from. Speaking of mods, I made a post over there about Mod Compatibility that I'd like someone to respond too. I was asking about how using the mod from TEC's Lament would work with recent updates to the game.

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Quoting Whisker_Fish,

reply 8

I'll give you a cookie if you can guess where my avatar picture comes from.

Challenge accepted!

Rheinland Military from the Discovery Gaming Community.

Quoting Whisker_Fish,

reply 8

and the combination of PM and "cheating" has recently perked my interest. (By cheating, I mean not using phase lanes.)

That's not cheating, that's their racial advantage. Abuse the hell out of it. I'm a modder. If I don't like something, I reprogram the game. That's cheating professionally.

Quoting Whisker_Fish,

reply 8

I made a post over there about Mod Compatibility that I'd like someone to respond too.

I'll go look and answer over there. Trying to keep this about strategy with the Kol.

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The Kol is a very potent ship for dealing with large forces of strike craft, but it suffers from tyree key flaws. First, it's a one-trick pony so if the enemy fleet doesn't have a substantial strike craft contingent (at least 20 squadrons) that's not going to add up to a whole lot. Second, the Kol is a late-bloomer, it needs lots of XP points to gain levels and become a substantial military contributor. Third, the Kol is a major antimatter hog and it simply doesn't have enough regeneration to fuel its own abilities.

These problems disappear in the late game. Having 20 strike craft squadrons is fairly tame, and you can almost be certain more are on the way. Even if the enemy does not yet have strike craft, you've got a pre-emptive counter on the field, which is very nice. Secondly, in larger battles there are more casualties and therefor capital ships actually level up faster, so getting the Kol to a reasonable level is pretty easy. With late-game antimatter regeneration techs and an easier time leveling up (higher level capital ships have higher antimatter regen rates) the Kol becomes much more reasonable in terms of AM consumption.

So the Kol goes from being the worst TEC capital ship in the early-game to being the best in the late-game. Unfortunately, late-game is not nearly as big of a consideration as early game. In singleplayer, the AI is horrendous in the late-game to the point at which if you survive that long with a decent empire your victory is assured. In multiplayer, especially in those tight death-matches that most people prefer, the late-game is seldom reached.

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(I heard it got nerfed though hard since I lost played Sins though

).

Did it? I didn't hear about that. As it is, a Sova's Embargo plus LRM rush can easily take down an unprepared opponent in a cramped map...

So, flak frigates are fine for early game anti-strikecraft duties, due to facing lower numbers of them. Late-game (or at any point) where I could easily see 50+ bombers, it's much preferred to have a pair of Kol's to serve as anti-strikecraft duty, due to flak frigates being akin to DoT speed where Kol's Flak Burst is more like burst... to borrow a MMO reference.

The biggest thing is that flak frigates have a hard time killing bombers reasonably quickly. Even in the early game, flak have problems even starting to whittle down the 5-15 bomber squads you see from capital ships - but early-game bombers aren't quite as much of a problem because there usually isn't quite enough firepower to put your capital ships in imminent mortal danger. Compared to the late-game, at least.

Bombers are the problem - barring a huge numerical advantage with flak, a Kol can be the most effective tactic if you want to take down the enemy's firepower ASAP...

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Quoting Wrath89,

reply 11

(I heard it got nerfed though hard since I lost played Sins though ).

Did it? I didn't hear about it. As it is, a Sova's Embargo plus LRM rush can easily take down an unprepared opponent in a cramped map...

It was from an pre diplomacy/entrenchment patch I believe, not super nerf but as I understood the nerf, it cut down on what it took and mad a max time or something. Like I said before, I got it close to when it first came out, my poor computer cried, so I gave it up for too long a time.

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