pacov's League of Legends general discussion thread - strategies, etc

By on November 29, 2011 1:07:18 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums


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I've locked/archived this thread/blog and have started a new discussion over here:

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Am I streaming



Well, I started a thread  back in August ( that's seen a lot of activity and actually had quite a few good bits of information for new and old players alike.  I figure it's time to start a new thread and perhaps keep the OP up-to-date with useful information, etc.  Feel free to use this post for any LoL discussion, etc.

Super fast background:  I played a lot of Demigod as pacov/cheesuscrust.  Back in August 2011 or so, I started getting heavily involved in LoL and folks have been kind enough to chime in with tips and links to various sites that have been quite useful to me.  In addition, I've been able to keep up with folks that I've played Demigod with in the past and meet some new folks that play LoL and frequent these message boards. 

Here's some of the things I've learned in the previous thread:

 New Player tips

  • Play the tutorial.
  • Consider picking up the starter bundle.  It's 530 RP (that's about $4).  You get 8 champs unlocked, a 4 win IP boost and a 10 win XP boost.  It's a pretty good deal (used it recently on an alt account).  You can find it in the game store under bundles.
  • Riot gives you 400 RP as soon as you hit level 5.  It's enough to buy some skins, a boost, or a cheap character. 
  • Learn to last hit!  Last hitting is simply landing the last hit on creeps.  If you last hit, you get gold for that kill.  The number of creeps you have killed is tracked in a value called CS.  You can see this number in the top right hand corner of the ui or by pressing tab.  Here's a really simple tutorial re: last hitting if you are brand new -
  • Read some guides on any character you want to try out.  The recommended builds (what you see when you go to a shop) are not optimal.  The guides include item suggestions and skill orders.  These are very useful in learning decent ways to build characters
  • Use the rune combiner to get level 3 runes prior to level 20 if you like.  You will need 375 IP.  Buy any tier 1 rune that costs 15 IP.  You need to purchase 25 of these.  Click on your rune page.  In the bottom right hand corner there is a button called the Rune Combiner.  If you place 5 runes in there, you can get a random rune that is 1 tier higher (eg if you have 5 tier 1 runes, you will get 1 random tier 2 rune.  Anyway, the math works out such that you spend 375 IP ( buy 25 tier 1 15 IP runes) and you get 1 completely random tier 3 rune.  Some of the quintessences are 2k IP, so if you luck out and get one of those, you just won the lottery.  You can always keep the random tier 2 rune if you end up with something good and don't want to trade it out yet.
  • Consider setting aside IP for tier 3 runes (available at level 20 and above).  You can't purchase them with real money - only IP.  Keep that in mind.

Great site I visit every day for LoL related news -

pacov's misc info

Here's a guide I made

pacov's Guide to Improving at League of Legends and Moving Up in Elo

k - so I'm just going to put down some of my thoughts.  I'm not amazing at this game, but I do certain things that improve my odds of winning in ranked and so far its panning out just fine (bronze 5 to gold 5 in about a month or so).  We all have varied skill levels, so some of this might be useful and some not.  Caveat complete.

Prerequisite- you need to know how to play every single role.  You don't have to be a god at every single role (more power to you if you are - I'm certainly not).  You need to be able to play at a serviceable level in every single role and excel at least at 1 role (preferably 2).  In my case, I'm good at support and adc.  I'm not great, but have serviceable mids and jungles and so so tops.  Knowing what you are good at and bad at is very important.  If you don't know, I can probably tell you - but you really should know...  Anyway, you need to have enough champs to make solid picks in any role and you need to be able to cover any role if it comes down to it.  I'll talk about how to get better at specific roles in a bit.

Champ select advice - Don't be the "fill" guy unless you really feel like you are awesome in all roles.  Call your preferred role immediately when you hit the lobby.  Say "adc pref."  Do this as soon as you hit the lobby.  Some people believe that if you call a role you magically get it.  This is stupid, but if you call something out, folks will often accomodate your request.  If you are feeling wishy washy for whatever reason, call out multiple roles in order of what you want to play - "adc/mid pref."  In my experience, you generally do not want to call support.  It's a very important role, but you want to be in a position to carry every single game if possible.  If you aren't calling out a role, you are hoping that other players can carry you.  If you are hoping that folks will carry you, you don't deserve to win.  You need to know your best roles and you absolutely should request them.

Solo or duo in ranked? - Well, my 1st thought here is that you should solo.  If you solo, you have to rely on yourself.  IMO - its a much bigger test of skill to play solo and win than to duo.  Do you want someone to carry you or do you really want to know that you are actually good?  That said, provided you have the right duo partner, you can increase your odds of winning quite a bit.  The simple math is that instead of having 4 teammates as unknown quantities, you only have 3.  If you have a good duo teammate, you know what you can expect.  When you duo, you get the most bang for your buck by having complimentary roles.  Support/adc is good; jungle/mid also works.  Even if you don't have direct symmetry in roles, if you are an amazing mid and I'm an amazing adc, our odds go up quite a bit if we both get those roles.  Our odds go way down if we can't get those roles and are forced to play out of positions that we are weaker.  For example, Bryff is a good mid.  If he duo's up with me, the only way he will get to play that role is for me to call mid, take it myself, and then put myself into a position like support where I can't carry out of (I'm always 1st pick, Bryff is always last pick when we duo)... that and I have to show the mid I'm picking at the start which means Bryff gets hard countered.  In short, we can expect that we will be a disadvantage when duo queuing.  Now, if Bryff queued up with someone at a lower elo than himself that was solid, he'd likely be 1st pick and be able to get mid and have a better chance of carrying the game.  Anyway, you need to keep in mind where you end up in pick order when duoing if you aren't looking to go adc/support.  If you want that, you can usually get it. 

How do you get better in roles that you are not good at? - Well, here's what I do.  And this is really what I do on a regular basis.  I think about what I'm good at and what I'm not good at.  For instance, I realized that I don't play any hyper carry ads.  So, I read up on hyper carries like vayne and kog maw.  I look for guides on how to build them (most adcs are the same btw ), I look for vids on how people play them (eg how do I all in with a specific champ - is there a combo - when do I all in - what's the best way for me to burst - how should I behave in lane with this champ).  Then, I fire up a custom game and try out the mechanics of whatever champ vs AI.  Usually I learn a few tricks during that custom on how to position myself, etc.  Then, I'm off to normal games where I'll request the role or character I'm trying out.  Now, people still report your for being awful in normals, but it really is where you need to try out characters to see if you are any good or not as the bots are useless for proving your skill level to yourself.  So, fire up that normal and ask to play a role (again - after you've tried out the champ against bots).  If you don't know anyone you are with and you are quite awful, I suggest muting everyone at the start of the game.  Then, do your best.  Continue with this until you feel like you have a serviceable skill level in whatever role.  And keep in mind what you need to work on.  For me, I noticed I didn't really have alot of mids for ranked, so I started practicing some with gragas against and karth.  That way, I'll be able to get the job done if I need to play mid.  The next thing I need to do is put more time into being better top lane. Again, because while I prefer adc/support, I might need to play top for the team.  So, best to be ready for it.  Put your time in and practice roles. 

One last thought - there are certain things you can generally expect in ranked.  1 - if you are 1st pick, you generally can call whatever you want.  Common knowledge, I'm sure - but I'll add - CALL WHATEVER YOU WANT.  2 - if you duo queue, you generally can lock down both adc and support.  It works best if your adc is 1st pick, ofc.  I've bumped into like 10 random dedicated supports in all of my games of LoL.  People generally aren't going to call support. So, if you are 1st pick and duo'd, just call adc and then your duo partner can almost always get support.


Lol King profiles for ranked tracking

I'm not going to update this regularly, so just consider it a snapshot (I'll add a date when I update them).  Anyway, I enjoy seeing folks progress through ranked and keeping tabs on that sort of thing from time to time. 

Snapshot updated 05/28/2014

 Character guides

Mid Ziggs by cow -
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November 30, 2011 9:14:39 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting Krazikarl,
The jungle isnt really any worse than before, its just much much more boring. 


And it will remain boring... until Thursday.  Hotfix coming.


I like what I think they're trying to do, I think they just went too far.  They realize that, and are bringing things back in line to balance it out.


Its a good concept I think.   No more windows where you have nothing to do but try for a gank cause your jungle is clear.  You should give up something to try for a gank I think... right now you give up too much, but they apparently realize that and are balancing things out.

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November 30, 2011 10:24:14 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Carbon was full of fail tonight.

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November 30, 2011 10:52:28 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Carbon was fun to play with tonight.  We got 2 wins out of 2 games (I think it was 2 games anyway ).  We were crap together in the lane on our last game though.  But once we split off it was happy kill win time.  I never really play blitz, but I have to say, his ult going off every 18 seconds is very nice.  Super fast lane clearing at the very least.  I was so bummed with myself though - not a single awesome grab the whole game.  I was like super close over and over but always just missing what would have been amazing ganks.  boo.  Oh well - guess that's bound to happen if you aren't used to him.  Bigger bummer that i was actually being super patient for those shots. 

Me = crazy idea that probably doesn't work, but worth asking.  What happens if you use your grab and then flash while you stil have them grabbed?  they get pulled further back?

also - i saw that a patch went live, but there were no notes - any ideas what changed?  If you get a chance, post the notes if they release them - can't view em from work.

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December 1, 2011 11:36:49 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Solo queue was an absolute nightmare last night! I don't think I've been more frustrated with this game...everyone is all over the place in terms of picks, jungling, laning pairs...well beyond normal. Maybe I just have to care less, but I do want to improve, which I can't at all when things are like they are right now.


-end rant

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December 1, 2011 12:19:41 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yeah I had a blast playing with someone. It be nice if I did well with you though

Ive been playing Blitz more often. He is fun to play. I tend to get more use out of waiting to use rocket grab at the end of picking a fight, when they try to disengage.  You have better chance of grabing them since they are too worried about running away.

Im really having some issues with Fizz. He is the bane of me it seems. I'll beat him sooner or later.



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December 1, 2011 4:05:47 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Just finished a game with Darkliath, who taught me some stuff...

Cho'Gath - 4/5/17

1. Get shoes ASAP, I originally put priority in mana, as Cho'Gath runs out VERY quickly...

2. stop running my lane after I down my tower and roam with the team.

thanks, Darkliath!



Oh yeah, DOH

3. Smartcasting is useful for quicker reaction times, though I haven't gotten used to it yet

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December 1, 2011 4:42:43 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Hmm... As for new player tips, I think smart casting should be mentioned. Also probably camera control (locked, unlocked).

The free Tristana (facebook) and free Alistar (Youtube).

Another thing is skin viewer. You can see how champion model looks in here.

Also there is a good guide for introduction into ranked here if nobody saw it yet:


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December 2, 2011 8:36:53 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Thanks for those suggestions dark, I'll check em out and add to the op as appropriate.

No LOL for me last night - went to see the Columbus Jazz Orchestra (every year they have a great Christmas concert).  Anyway, I'll be on at some point tonight.

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December 2, 2011 10:56:13 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Is it better to stay in locked camera mode?

I usually use unlocked because I look around the map on occasion.

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December 2, 2011 11:33:19 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums
Unlocked is better. But new players don't always know how to change the camer to unlocked unless they do the tutorial and pay attention.
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December 2, 2011 3:28:00 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Just some notes for pacov for later...



From karl's  post many pages back

Quoting pacov,
Can someone help me understand a few concepts please?

AD and AP carries, etc - what do those mean? 

How do I know who is what in game and how much attention should I be paying to things like this? 

I know these are very broad questions... thx. 

"Carry" as its used nowadays, is basically synonymous with "damage dealer".  It used to mean something a bit different, but thats how the term is used in LoL now.  So a carry is a very different role than a tank (whose job is to start and control teamfights) or a support (whose job is to buff and heal their own team).

You can either be an ability power (AP) carry or an attack damage (AD) carry.  Hybrid carries generally do not exist.

AP Carries become stronger by stacking ability power.  Common items here are Rabadon's Deathcap (pure damage), Rod of Ages (mix of damage and health), Void Staff (damage and magic penetration), and Zhonya's hourglass (damage and defense).  AP carries are generally strong early game and fade late game unless heavily fed.  They generally, but not always, do their damage in large bursts.  The damage from AP carries is mitigated by magic resist, but NOT armor.

The most common AP carries are: Annie, Brand, Orianna, Fiddlesticks, and Malzahar.  Morde is usually built as an AP Carry/tank combo and Akali is usually built as an AP carry/assassin combo.

AD Carries become stronger by stacking attack damage.  They usually rely heavily on autoattacks,  so getting attack speed and crit chance increases is also a good idea.  Common items are Infinity Edge, Last Whisper, Brutalizer, and Phantom Dancer.  Madred's Bloodrazor also works and allows the AD carry to hybridize a bit by doing some magic damage.  AD carries are generally weak early game and get stronger late game.  They generally do sustained damage over time instead of in bursts.  The damage from AD carries is mitigated by armor, but NOT magic resist.

The most common AD carries are: Ashe, Corki, Vayne, Tristana, and Caitlyn. 

Teams generally should have at least 1 AD carry and 1 AP carry.  That way the other team can't mitigate your damage by only stacking armor or MR, but must stack both to really reduce your team's damage.

Ranged AD carries are usually preferred to melee AD carries since they are more difficult to kill.  You should be identifying and trying to kill the other team's carries first.  They do the damage, but typically dont have many defenses, so kill them fast.  At low levels of play you can play melee AD carries and get away with it (the classic example being Master Yi) since teams dont target carries as well, but at high levels of play somebody like Yi will get targeted and focuses too quickly to be real useful to the team in most cases.

... through 12 pages of the old thread

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December 2, 2011 10:58:26 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I really can't believe what a middle finger Riot gave to junglers.

The stupidist thing is that you are 1 xp short of hitting level 4 with the best clear.  The best path is generally Wraits->Blue->Wolves->Wraiths->Red->Double Golems.  Thats puts you level 3 with 500 of 500 experience needed for level 4.  Which doesnt let you hit it because you need 1 more xp.  No way thats a coincidence.

Which just means that junglers now need to be using 1 xp quint on all their rune sets.  Which is just annoying as hell that we all have to swap 1 odd quint in. 

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December 4, 2011 4:28:04 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

small little PSA: 


If possible, the players on your own team should start at mini golems... assuming you arne't gonna be invaded and stuff. 

And they can clear them promptly without taking too much damage or missing any creeps. 


ANYWAY assuming a 20 second clear on the minigolems... 


by the time you get there with a wolves > blue > wraiths > wolves > red > golem route they will have respawned and built a small bank. 


Depending on your clear times, if they DONT kill them at start of game, you'll get 117 + 38 EXP. 

If one of your allies DO kill them, you'll get 119 + 40 EXP.


The difference in EXP should be tiny... probably nothing at all, might even get a small benefit. However, you are going to be feeding about 150 EXP to whoever kills it (assuming they don't lose any creeps, you aren't invaded, etc). 


This is because the EXP is decided at spawn times... So if you leave a camp sitting there for 5 minutes, it'll be way less than if it had literally just spawned as you were walking up to it.

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December 4, 2011 1:42:30 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Please dont start at wolves.  Its a horrible starting spot for most champs.  If you want to get to 4 fast, start at wraiths, then blue, then just go across.  It prevents you from having to cross mid 3 times.

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December 4, 2011 4:46:56 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

Why is that a horrible starting spot? 


Staring with boots 3 pots, you're getting to blue about 15 seconds after it spawns. Even longer if you're not using any movement speed boost masteries (though most are), or if you don't start with boots. 


Going wolves > blue you get there 2 seconds after it spawns, get a leash, and the rest of the clear you're at much higher health. Smite is also up at red (smite doesn't come up until golems if you go wraiths > blue). 


Comparing the two routes, starting at wraiths is slightly faster, sure, by about 5-10 seconds. But it has numerous amount of disadvantages and leaves you way open to counterjungling. 



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December 4, 2011 5:23:13 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

This is the most excruciating game I've played in a long time.  First - I have 46 kills as talon... yeah.  46.  And we lost.  Our team just couldn't close the deal.  Anyway, I don't mind that we lost really - just that it took like 70 + minutes when we could have ended it at like the 25 min marker.  Oh well.


Our main problem was a teemo that indicated he didn't want to get near any battles... (yeah, that happened) and my buddy shuster was not exactly good with gragas.  Ah well. 


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December 4, 2011 11:55:06 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

pacov goes to sleep ranked 1422.  Works for me.  Night folks.  Uploaded several ranked games.

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December 5, 2011 8:16:11 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

picked up volibear (stupid name btw ) today.  I dig him.  Starting to settle into a tanky dmg build.  I keep thinking I should grab an vamp scepter but I always forget. 

Looks like they patched again.  No idea what's changed now.  Are they just lousy with explaining why they are patching or am I not looking for it in the right place.

updated the op.

edit - here's a fun replay with me as volibear + dark and hedgie.  Total whoopin.


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December 5, 2011 10:14:18 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

LOL Recorder broke my game. [e digicons]:'([/e]


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December 5, 2011 11:16:13 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

aw... works for me anyway :/

I think they need to release another update though.  Stats on my last game didn't show up for some reason.



OK - does anyone have the latest info on whats going on with the jungle?  First they screwed it up... then there was a patch that "made it less screwed up."  Then tonight another patch that may have been completely unrelated.  I have no idea,  Would love to hear if anyone has more info.  Based on any games after 7PM EST tonight, can you tell any difference?

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December 6, 2011 12:07:14 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

The original jungle hotfix that went live Saturday didn't have a patch.  According to Morello, they have mechanics in place that would allow them to tweak things again if they needed to without patching.  Its done on the "server side" or some crap that you would probably understand but I don't have a clue about.

I imagine the patch that came through could have been a thousand other things but probably not another jungle change unless it was a really major one.


Edit:  Patch looks to be a Hyena skin for a no longer viable jungler.  Yay.

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December 6, 2011 2:25:54 AM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

they added a banking system...


For the old farming sustained 100% route, it gives like 1% more gold and EXP than before (2 more EXP and 3 more gold first run). So just sitting and farming until level 10 is unchanged compared to before (that is, junglers are still gold starved midgame unless they get a stupid amount of kills). 


However, the moved around the gold/EXP to be heavier on the big creeps. This makes counterjungling not completely and totally pointless. Not sure if it's good yet though. (Also it means you're giving your middle like 70+ gold and 100+ EXP when you're handing off blue). 


It also makes failed ganks slightly less punishing. I believe that after one minute, the camp is worth 50% more than it was when it was spawning. However, it's never good to intentionally bank things... It's just a way to make junglers that actually "leave" the jungle not fall completely behind if they screw up a gank. 

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December 7, 2011 9:11:57 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Thanks for the extra info hedgie. 

hmm... let's see.  So after picking up volibear, I was doing like amazing with him.  Left and right kicking butt. Embarrassing tryn in solo lane for instance.  Anyway, then they release a patch that has nothing to do with volibear and I'm suddenly not doing as well.  Odds are the imaginary nerf is just in my head.

Anyway, yesterday I started using Shen again.  He was a character I really wanted to be my main when I started playing lol, but decided that I really shouldn't play him as I was absolute rot (this was after like 20 total games, to be fair).  Anyway, started using him and have been having quite a bit of fun - and played surprisingly well.  I tossed up a replay of my first game with him.  I ended up with like 8 clutch ult saves.  Anyway, then I met up with cheesy and we just lit up the other teams.  Lots of fun games last night.

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December 8, 2011 12:44:21 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

I'm really enjoying how I get sick of playing characters fairly quickly now.  Seems strange, but for a bit I was playing Gragas for like 50 games straight - now I just seem to get obsessed with a character for like a day or 2 and then moving on.  I'm looking forward to picking up riven next.  On sale for half rp on Friday, so I'll add him and see about doing some solo top.

Went back to using talon all day yesterday.  Got some games in with cow/pete towards the end of the night where we cleaned up nicely.  Been watching some daily streams from deathcapfordorian (over on  I'm starting to check out that site every 1 to 2 days and watch some streams and read some articles. 

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December 8, 2011 1:04:52 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Best game yet...

AP Cho'Gath vs. Beginner AI...

I went 1v5, still got kills, and escaped from them...


Cho'Gath is amazing, I charged straight in and just started nuking champs left and right, and it wasn't until after having the 3 remaining champs hitting me and being focused on by the two Nexus Towers that I got my second death. I hadn't even noticed that my team had run away!


Rupture is an AoE nuke with slow, I LOVE IT!

Game: 9/2/12

Items used

Game Details
Gold Earned 13041 Assists 12
Largest Killing Spree 8 Deaths 2
Level 18 Total Heal 12722
Win yes Barracks killed 0
Time Spent Dead 97 Turrets Killed 1
Champions Killed 9 Neutral Minions Killed 0
Assists 12 Minions Killed 200
Deaths 2 Largest Multi Kill 1
Total Heal 12722 Damage Dealt 190309
Barracks killed 0 Damage Taken 31180
Turrets Killed 1 Physical Damage Dealt 28588
Neutral Minions Killed 0 Physical Damage Taken


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