pacov

Join Date 02/2008

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The 2nd Demigod Community Tournament - Decision Making Panel Discussions

The purpose of this thread is to contain discussions made by the decision making panel pertaining to the 2nd Demigod Community Tournament. Per the rules and registration thread http://forums.impulsedriven.com/396231, here are some more details about the panel.

Decision Making Panel

This tournament will be governed by a decision making panel consisting of pacov, McShane, hedgie with jongalt as an alternate. The panel's purpose is as follows:

Review any scheduling issues and making the final decisions with regards to disqualification.
Reviewing replays as required (crashes and desyncs)
Resolving any disputes that arise

The panel's decision on all matters will be the final word for this tournament. And last, the members of the decision making panel will not make any decisions on the games they are playing in. We didn't have a panel in place for the first tournament and that was a mistake.

So, if you have a game that requires reviewing, etc, please post here.

Current discussion: What team combinations will be allowed in the final 4? Discussion over.

quick summary

team 1 v team 4, team 2 v team 3

All games are best 2 out of 3 elimination. So, we only have a semi-finals and finals round now.

Whatever team is on light in game 1 will choose from the list of acceptable team combos.

Whatever team is on light in game 2 (teams will rotate sides) will choose a different option from the list of acceptable team combos.

If there is a game 3, the remaining dg combo must be used.

Here are the combos:

QoT, erebus, UB
Rook-Reg-Erebus
ub tb erebus

So, we'll just make this quite official, then - and I think its a simple compromise that should keep all parties quite happy.

Teams in the final 4 portion of our tournament will have the option of 1) sticking with the original character selection rules or 2) going with the mirror match selection. Before teams start their games, they will briefly discuss the option they want to go with. If the teams do not agree, then they will stick the original demigod selection rules as listed in the rules and registration thread; however, once the teams have agreed on the character selection rules, they will stick with those rules for that match (eg either you stick with the old rules for the best 2 out of 3 or you stick with the mirror match rules for the best 2 out of 3). These rules apply for both the semi-finals and the finals.

That should hopefully take care of it.

The semi finals MUST be completed by Tuesday at midnight (or at least be in progress at that point). If you make it to the finals, you will be expected to play in the finals no later than Thursday at midnight. If the games have not taken place by that point, disqualifications will occur. Disqualifications will be determined based on teams making a logical effort to get their games in. Hoping you get your game in and not being willing to schedule will result in a disqualification if you do not meet those deadlines. The easiest way to avoid that is to simply speak with your team and make a post in the scheduling thread based on your availability. I'd hope to see a little more effort than "we hope everyone is on when we are" because if that is all the effort that is put into it, you will likely be disqualified. Avoid that by making an effort.

edit - and just another reminder, all teams MUST use the latest version of uberfix 1.03 for the semi-finals and finals - linky: http://uberfix.googlecode.com/files/Uberfix%201.03.exe

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

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I'm just copying a few other discussions the decision making panel had to get them into this thread:

pacov:

Hey guys - I want to throw this out to the decision making panel as I think its a pretty important topic to discuss. I'd like to extend the amount of time allocated for the first week and not disqualify anyone for not getting their games in. As it stands, I'd wager we'd have to dq a substantial amount of players (which kind of makes our tourney a complete waste). I'd like to give EVERYONE 1 more week to get their first 6 games in. Remember, we don't want to dq anyone - we just want players that aren't willing to make the effort or aren't serious about playing in the tourney to be identified quickly. We absolutely do not want to hurt players that are trying to get their games in, but have no one to play against. I've had a few chats with folks recently that were a bit discouraged because they were trying but weren't able to get their games in. I'd also like to make the official "end of the week" date to sunday at midnight to complete games. Whatcha think?

mcshane:

Another full week sounds insane to me. I'd say another couple of days at the most. There's a clear lack of effort if it takes 2 full weeks to play 6 games. It doesn't seem like enough teams are taking advantage of the scheduling thread.

pacov:

well - i disagree. I don't think we are really pushing things all that far by giving folks an extra week at the start of the tourney. As it stands today, I think like 50% of the teams if not more would be dq'd. And you have to keep in mind that some folks aren't used to hoping on vent, etc. Anyway, I'm not talking about every 6 games taking 2 weeks, I'm talking about our first week of the tournament being extended by 1 week to give folks a chance to get their games in. I think that after 2 weeks, it should be clear who is going to play and who is not. So, imo, give everyone a one week cushion, and then lets press on. Sounds fair to me, at least.

hedgie:

I'm okay with pushing this first week another week before enforcing a more stringent conditions. I'd like this tourney to actually have all 12 or so teams (:

pacov:

Boom - decision panel vote 2 to 1. Team's will NOT be dq'd if they fail to get 6 games in by the end of next week Sunday (10/31). We agree that we will enforce dq's etc after that time.

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

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And here's a discussion about a game that a review was requested for:

mcshane:

We have first controversy. Orcun-Renzo-McShane clearly win game 1 vs TSK:

http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/replays.php?game=51&show=details&id=159481

They want to replay it even though 2/3 had conceded, we controlled both portals and were up approximately 10 kills to 0.

pacov:

they have and how much gold there is.

First player drops at the 23 min mark.

renz/ocrun/mcshane own both of the enemy portals. They are up in warscore by 2600 points. When the disconnects started, orcun had 7800 gold, and everyone else had 5-6k gold on their team. The chances of a come back at this point were slim to none. In addition, renz/ocrun/mcshane are up a total of 8 kills to 0 kills.

I'm perfectly happy to review whatever games need reviewing, but pretty please be a little more considerate when asking for a review. I'm not exactly sure how someone could think this would go the other way.

Anyway, we do allow for reviews in the event of a dc for a reason - we really do want everyone to have a fair chance even if demigod/connections would rather you didn't. If its even somewhat close, I'd throw this out. I'm actually a big fan of comebacks and certainly allow for that in my judging, but if I thought there was a reasonable chance this you guys could have pulled out a win, I'd say so. In this case, and if you watch the replay yourselves, I'm not sure that anyone could come to another conclusion.

I really recommend you guys watch this if you feel like I'm being unfair - pause it at the 20 minute mark, and examine warscore, items, portal control, and money. If you'd like someone else on the decision making panel to review, please say so, but I honestly think this is pretty cut and dry.

hedgie:

Yes I just fastforwarded the whole time and watched it.

Darkness was 6 kills ahead, had a 6 tower advantage, roughly 1000 warscore ahead, and a net total of 6 levels. Obviously I'm going to rule in favor of McShane.

Conclusion - the game counts.

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

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Just a bump - we'll be talking about disqualifications here.

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Orcun, Renzo and I have been on for the last few hours hoping for someone to show up. Doesn't seem like many teams care anymore about the deadline than they did last week. I don't think there's really any point disqualifying everyone and calling the tournament a failure though. Maybe we have to think about looking at it with a regular season/playoffs approach. For example, maybe we say regular season ends November 30th, playoffs for the top 4 teams start December 3rd.

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Yah I was hoping the participation raffle would help with this

Oh well. It's Halloween today so I doubt there would be that many cames now anyway.

Do we want to start a prediscussion here?

Obviously teams with 0 games should be wiped, since I also think teams with 0 games have had 0 active presence on the forums (correct me if I'm wrong).

6 games were supposed to be in by now, but I think only 3 or 4 teams have met that criteria (Thunder, Shane, ZenGod...?) so that's not cool. I know that pacov's team in particular has been trying to get games in, as well as Darkliath's but I'm not sure of their game count.

Should we make it something like 3 games with "sufficient proof of trying to get games in" makes the cut? I do really think that's sorta loose though. Scheduling 3 games of demigod between, what? 10 active-ish teams over the course of 2 weeks really shouldn't be that difficult.

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I say we make a new thread titled HOW TO AVOID DISQUALIFICATION FROM THE TOURNAMENT

and in that thread demand that sometime in the next 2 days teams get on vent and pm pacov, jongalt or me to say that they're still interested in playing tournament games. The main issue is that many of the teams are not on vent which is where most of the action for setting up games occurs. If the teams can't be bothered to install vent for use as an instant messaging system than they should be disqualified for sure.

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

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Obviously teams with 0 games should be wiped, since I also think teams with 0 games have had 0 active presence on the forums (correct me if I'm wrong).

well - are we in agreement that teams with 0 games should be wiped? One exception might be:

oO-DreamCatcheR-Oo said:

Hi all! One guy from my team is very busy now, so we cant play. Dont DQ us please, I hope we'll start to play cup games soon.

Another exception would be any team that has taken the time to post in the scheduling thread indicating that they are trying to get their games in. My primary goal would be to just get rid of the folks that signed up and don't really want to participate.

Orcun, Renzo and I have been on for the last few hours hoping for someone to show up.

yeah, I saw that - i've been floating around as well to see if cow/soccer pop on line as well for a match. who knows - maybe folks will be on later.

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I think a bracket system forcing players to play against a particular team each week(or twice a week) would be helpful. On top of that games arranged among players should still be allowed.

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Well... Probably tonight my team won't play... Iz was, but not on anymore and Darz hasn't appeared... So it's for you to decide our future...

It's very difficult for us to get matches with people from America, because of very different time zones... And this weekend Darz had technical problems with his weak computer (he wasn't at his place). So as of now we have played 3 matches... (not 6)

Ech...

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

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I'd say that teams that are truly trying to get their games in should not be dq'd. What says the panel. My vote for 1. Now you other 2...

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well we need to constitute what "best effort" is and if we need to determine a form of "probation" and what the terms of probation would be.

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If we cut all of the teams that dont have 6 games, we'd be left with 5 teams as of now.

I would like to recommend to keep the DQ's fairly light at this time. The reason being is that there are some teams that are making an effort, or just have 1 person who can't seem to make the matches. I would like to suggest that we just cut the teams that are not making an effort AND are not responsive to PM's And not active in the forums.

If 10 teams are DQ'd, that leaves 27 games per team, about 135 games total in the tourney before playoffs.

Here is a list of teams with zero games:

beastmode, generalG, stiffyG
rwcupcrazy/pwnage_69/nojokes
Anneliese_the_Beserk/Udo_Juergins/Don_Doen
Eltimes/Lols_SeaWolf/DreamCatcher
RobertMunch/FC-FuneralPortrait/DeadDemi
brasher01/brokenstrong/beckad1(prozombe)
Maxsteel32/Sebacoyl/Stilr
******Questionable below this line*******
Nacelle, Vulture, Loco
Commando, Rezzan, Tschert
Mort, Nate, Zebra

Also as of note, nacelle's team (Nacelle, Vulture, Loco) indicated that they may not continue to play. This still has to be confirmed.

I also haven't see these guys around since we played: Commando, Rezzan, Tschert

Zebra has also not responded to my PM's.

Of these teams we see members of of each team regularly :

brasher01/brokenstrong/beckad1(prozombe)
Maxsteel32/Sebacoyl/Stil

Brokenstrong asked that they try to get an alternate since one of his team members schedule got messed up.

Max and Seb are on, it may be possible for them to find a replacement for Stilr

Eltimes/Lols_SeaWolf/DreamCatcher also asked not to be disqualified

I havent heard from any of the other teams, either in vent, posts, or in game at all. This is a list of those teams. Please let me know if you have heard from them.

beastmode, generalG, stiffyG
rwcupcrazy/pwnage_69/nojokes
Anneliese_the_Beserk/Udo_Juergins/Don_Doen
RobertMunch/FC-FuneralPortrait/DeadDemi

I recommend that these teams should be removed from the tournament. If you are a member on one of those teams then speak up now !

The remaining teams - i am requesting that they are put on double not so secret probation. Possibly give them through next sunday to try and correct things on their end. The issue could be revisited with final decisions made at that time.

brasher01/brokenstrong/beckad1(prozombe)
Eltimes/Lols_SeaWolf/DreamCatcher
Commando, Rezzan, Tschert
Nacelle, Vulture, Loco
Mort, Nate, Zebra

So say we all ?

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I thought that Max had gotten a game in?

Also, I see last week's extension as "double not so secret probation". We don't need to do that again or we are going to be thought of as total jokes.

I'm suggesting eliminating every 0 game team.

Maybe Beastmode and stiffyG but they might have something like 48 hours to get 3 games in or something.

Rather, I was saying giving the teams with < 6 games a probation. I'm not sure what, but, iono. Even later on sometimes a team is just going to be busy and so it might fall below the required number of games. A probation can be something that if they don't meet the quota the following week (not necassarily "make up" the difference, but if a team that is put on probation for falling below the # of required games is still below that same # of required games by the end of the following week they are off).

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nobody reads my post as usual. We played 3 games against nacelle and co and 2 games against max

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Maxsteel and crew is getting games in against a team as I write this.

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

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I havent heard from any of the other teams, either in vent, posts, or in game at all. This is a list of those teams. Please let me know if you have heard from them.

1. beastmode, generalG, stiffyG
2. rwcupcrazy/pwnage_69/nojokes
3. Anneliese_the_Beserk/Udo_Juergins/Don_Doen
4. RobertMunch/FC-FuneralPortrait/DeadDemi

I recommend that these teams should be removed from the tournament. If you are a member on one of those teams then speak up now !

I'm on board for this as well. We can give them until Wednesday to speak up and then just drop them from the tourney as you can only assume they aren't wanting to play without making any effort to contact or post in the scheduling thread.

1 vote for dqing those teams as of wednesday if they haven't spoken up. McShane/Hedgie? Let me know and I'll post this to the rules/registration thread.

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I'm in favor of instantly dropping 2-4.

#1 could have a 48 hour respond time because I know that they are working out issues, but they need to play 3 (?) games within the next 2 days.

---

We still need to discuss about the teams that have played games but didn't meet a quota. I think that there needs to be "some" action, and I'm suggesting a form of probation. This is something that we may need to deal with in later weeks too (eg, Team C is really just flat out busy that week and didn't get a chance to play as much as they should).

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Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

reply 18

I'm in favor of instantly dropping 2-4.

#1 could have a 48 hour respond time because I know that they are working out issues, but they need to play 3 (?) games within the next 2 days.

---

We still need to discuss about the teams that have played games but didn't meet a quota. I think that there needs to be "some" action, and I'm suggesting a form of probation. This is something that we may need to deal with in later weeks too (eg, Team C is really just flat out busy that week and didn't get a chance to play as much as they should).

I say eliminate all 4 of them. Beastmode hasn't played in over a month, stiffyg played once in the last month. I thought that would've been a good team, but looks like they're done with it.

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Alright... eliminate them all

:and hedgie shrugged:

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Quoting Boxxy_Mithrandar,

reply 15

nobody reads my post as usual. We played 3 games against nacelle and co and 2 games against max

your posts are the only ones i read!

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

+183

Ok - we'll go with the elimination of those 4 - we'll give them until Wed to respond or tell us what they are doing to get the games in, but I think we won't get any response (vote of 3-0)

Agreed that we need to decide what to do. It can get a little tricky, though. For instance, my team, which was on pretty much every single night for 2 weeks just barely got in 7 total games (and that's because several teams popped up at the last minute ready to play). I just think a lot of this is going to be on a case by case basis. If my team only ended up with 4 games played at the end of 2 weeks, should we have gone on probation? I'd say no, because there is clear and documented effort to get games.

On the other side of things, did you notice several teams making quite a bit of effort at the last possible moment to get a game in? So, the deadlines are good. We could slap a probation on all teams that have not completed the min 6 games. If they fail to complete 6 more or show some sort of improvement the following week, we could dq. Whatcha think?

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Quoting Boxxy_Mithrandar,

reply 15

nobody reads my post as usual. We played 3 games against nacelle and co and 2 games against max

sorry bro, i just missed it lol !

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Quoting OMG_pacov,

reply 22

Whatcha think?

I think it is in our best interest to be as benevlolent as possible. It harms nothing to DQ a team today versus next monday.

I agree with Pacov on this. The deadlines are good. However as long as people are putting forth the effort then the goal is accomplished.

Four teams are DQ'd, 2 teams probably tacitly dropped. Some teams are on probation. Overall the game count has already significantly decreased and will continue to do so.

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what about brackets to push teams to play, then you can see if a team does not play at all and it will be easier to disqualify idle teams with no effort. but at the same time you can still schedule with everyone.

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