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Drug war? over?

By on July 16, 2010 8:44:39 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Zazimire

Join Date 06/2010
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   Detroit is leagalizing based on a vote in November, advocates say state wide in four years. -Jeremy Sr.

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August 27, 2010 1:29:53 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Of course, continuing to punish drinking and driving is a good idea, just because alchohol is widely proven to be a bad idea while driving (and it metabolizes fairly quickly, with a well regulated (tried and true) system for testing which is fair)

Same actually applies to other drugs, not just alcohol. Using either whilst driving is legally testable and subsequently actionable [In Oz]....eventually other parts of the world will catch up to us....

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August 27, 2010 2:13:39 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Alright,

 

After spending far far far too much time reading what is largely mindless drivel, fallacious arguments built on faulty logic and poor reasoning I have come to a conclusion and changed my mind about the whole pot thing. See at first I thought "trying to momentarily alter one's perception of reality for the simple reason of enjoying it more seems like you're being terribly dishonest with yourself." Honestly, I can't understand how anyone can become so completely wrapped up in lying to themselves about their lives. But no no. After a while you people began to make a point. Not intentionally, not with any one statement, but the collected efforts of stoners to go soo far out of their way to try and rationalize getting high for a moment's worth of buzz has really painted a clear picture that no amount of reason, ethics, social progress, or even medical information could ever change the minds of the growing group of baked potatoes. No, like the silly creationist, the happiness that comes with their belief is so great it out weighs their value of reason. You have opened my eyes. I am no longer under the illusion that this problem can be solved by merely understanding the truth. After all, who cares about the truth, right? That isn't always sunshine and rainbows, why would anyone pick the truth over smoking a joint and having some giggles with your friends on a couch for hours? Or, apparently, getting high in a closet for eight years then having mystical revelations, truth has nothing on that shit.

 

So here's the deal,

I'm with ya, 100%, mindless drivel, incomprehensible self proclaimed "poets", and yes even the alleged "thinkers". I'm fully on board, legalized whatever crazy magical substances you want. But here's the deal, I will agree to all of the afore mentioned gladly, all you have to do is first legalize suicide. Because I really really really really don't want to live in that world. Do they sell bullets individually?

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August 27, 2010 2:25:44 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

. Do they sell bullets individually?

Yes,but you can't exchange them after they are used so make sure you buy one big enough to do the job properly.

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August 27, 2010 2:54:24 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting AbsynthMinded,
What state?

Again as states address the issue locally eventually the feds will have to come to grips with the changing sentiment, and either try and re-enforce the fed laws, or make decriminalization nation wide. If the govt could easily and reliably make more money of of legal drugs over the profit off illegal drugs I think they would be moving faster on it. Fact is, on a federal drug charge if they nail the right chain of bad guys in the upper food chain, the govt makes 100's of millions in seized assets per offender. Not to mention the political capital for appearing to have made some difference, and poorly justified ever expanding budgets for such efforts.

I don't see why the federal law would even need to change, it's not like they have the power to enforce the law anyway when major states disagree with them. Because if California is against something (and it almost certainly will be soon, this is going on the public ballot in November) then they won't back down against federal authorities. Federal authorities will back down before California, just like they always do. The most they might do is jockey for some sort of token appeasement, like they did with the highway numbers.[quote who="Jafo" reply="218" id="2728428"]
Drug testing motorists, especially in the case of cannabis, is worthless, because THC metabolites are stored in fat molecules, so depending on a person's body habitus, they can be as sober as a judge, but if they had a "chemical indiscretion" a couple weeks before they get in an accident, the drug test will show that person is "dirty" even though they were high over a week ago!
Sure....so Australia is clearly using a system that doesn't work.....always good to know that you're right and the Country's medical and traffic experts are wrong.  Thanks for correcting reality.[/quote]His statement is accurate, we have similar policy here. Of course, in practice, cops will only test for that sort of thing if the driver appears to be under the influence, so it all works out okay.

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August 27, 2010 12:34:46 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting otakucore2,

Today prisons, in the US anyway, are just for warehousing and punishing the convicted.


Actually, today prisons are for making a profit. THAT is one of the reasons marijuana is still illegal right now.

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August 27, 2010 1:25:25 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting k10w3,
Quoting otakucore2, reply 225
Today prisons, in the US anyway, are just for warehousing and punishing the convicted.

Actually, today prisons are for making a profit. THAT is one of the reasons marijuana is still illegal right now.

 

Isn't marijuana one of those commodities where one's profits go up in smoke? 

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August 27, 2010 1:31:47 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting k10w3,

Quoting otakucore2, reply 225
Today prisons, in the US anyway, are just for warehousing and punishing the convicted.

Actually, today prisons are for making a profit. THAT is one of the reasons marijuana is still illegal right now.

This is a myth, nobody actually makes money off of prisons right now. (except prison employees, but they don't have any say over how prisons run, so they don't count for these purposes)
Quoting DrJBHL,

Quoting k10w3, reply 230Quoting otakucore2, reply 225
Today prisons, in the US anyway, are just for warehousing and punishing the convicted.

Actually, today prisons are for making a profit. THAT is one of the reasons marijuana is still illegal right now.

Isn't marijuana one of those commodities where one's profits go up in smoke? 
If this wasn't just for the pun, then no. It is very profitable, and people can keep the profits. There are communities around here who's entire economy is based on growing. They're not rich communities, but it gives them enough money to live.

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August 27, 2010 1:53:18 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,

Quoting k10w3, reply 230Quoting otakucore2, reply 225
Today prisons, in the US anyway, are just for warehousing and punishing the convicted.

Actually, today prisons are for making a profit. THAT is one of the reasons marijuana is still illegal right now.
 

Isn't marijuana one of those commodities where one's profits go up in smoke? 


Not for the ones who profit from prohibition (privately-owned prisons, organized crime, terrorist, the corporations that make drug tests, the laboratories that oversee those tests...)

No Doc...the prohibition of marijuana is extremely big business.  Watch "The Union:The Business Behind Getting High" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1039647/

It's a pretty shocking video.

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August 27, 2010 2:00:47 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Cruxador,

This is a myth, nobody actually makes money off of prisons right now.


Really?  Then why is the stock in Corrections Corporation of American up 0.73 today?(this in a double-dip recession, no less) http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:CXW

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August 27, 2010 7:13:39 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Actually, today prisons are for making a profit. THAT is one of the reasons marijuana is still illegal right now.

Another reason is that it's easier to take your gun ownership rights away when your busted for felony pot possession. Easier than changing the gun laws.

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August 27, 2010 7:45:06 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I never thought about that, WG.  Good point.

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August 27, 2010 7:59:20 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm sorry, I just want to point out to all of you that you got trolled by a bot that doesn't even pass a Turing test.  You may find it interesting to see what chatbots can do these days. The OP is one

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August 28, 2010 1:25:23 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Cruxador,
This is a myth, nobody actually makes money off of prisons right now. (except prison employees, but they don't have any say over how prisons run, so they don't count for these purposes)

If it's true that no prisons make a profit, why are there still private prisons?  Not necessarily contradicting you, but maybe they should look into their business plan if they're not making profit.

In thinking about this earlier, I couldn't come up with another commonly available product for which no sales tax is collected.  The best I could come up with is yard sale items.  Illegal income is supposed to be reported for income tax, but I don't think there's any law that says illegal sales are supposed to be reported for sales tax.  (Income tax activists claim there's no law that income tax has to be reported at all, but that's another issue.  The fact is income tax evasion, where the source of income is illegal, is prosecuted, whereas I'm not aware of any case of prosecution for evading sales tax on sale of illegal products.)

If the government collected just 6% sales tax on reported marijuana sales, that alone would be a huge revenue stream.  Add to that income tax, as pro-legalization activists do, and the argument becomes stronger.  I'd like to see figures on state revenue from medical marijuana, minus expenditures for grants for marijuana research.  This article claims $200 million dollars of medical marijuana sales are subject to sales tax in California.

If you're morally opposed to marijuana, the state revenue argument won't hold much sway.  If we could make money by killing babies, we wouldn't support it.  But if you're opposed on purely pragmatic, utilitarian, grounds, then the untapped revenue stream (and the costs of prisons, which in whole do not produce profit--and drain productivity by warehousing citizens who might otherwise be productive) must be persuasive.

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August 28, 2010 2:57:25 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I'm sorry, I just want to point out to all of you that you got trolled by a bot that doesn't even pass a Turing test. You may find it interesting to see what chatbots can do these days. The OP is one

Nice try, however I have communicated directly with the 'OP' and at best 'bot's are incapable of presenting themselves as quite so, er, naive [for want of a better word]....

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August 30, 2010 7:54:23 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Yeah, try telling me again that illegal drugs (of any kind) are OK.  Any substance that effects your cognitive abilities, even in the tiniest way, is no good for you or anybody else, period!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11129844

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August 30, 2010 12:36:32 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

   My brother rubbs in that the state police will still be after the dealers but The city police won't touch anyone and the reports on the new about state police are all that they are stinging the most violent gang members in the city.  Often taking down 100 -150 of the most dagerous people my brother doesn't reallize that the detroit police won't be arresting 100 people a day that is good news and I feel in 20 years you'll see that people start believing in the law again when they aren't over it on the drugs every day that they do it. -Jeremy Sr. 

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August 30, 2010 3:32:18 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting LightStar,
Yeah, try telling me again that illegal drugs (of any kind) are OK.  Any substance that effects your cognitive abilities, even in the tiniest way, is no good for you or anybody else, period!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11129844


Tom, I read that entire article twice, and there is not one word mentioned about drugs at all.  Perhaps you posted the wrong link.  The headline on the story you posted is "Slovakia gunman kills himself after shooting seven dead."  There's a lot mentioned about nobody knowing the motive of the shooting, a couple mentions of the word "gypsy" but nothing about drugs.

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August 30, 2010 7:19:02 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Tom, I read that entire article twice, and there is not one word mentioned about drugs at all. Perhaps you posted the wrong link. The headline on the story you posted is "Slovakia gunman kills himself after shooting seven dead." There's a lot mentioned about nobody knowing the motive of the shooting, a couple mentions of the word "gypsy" but nothing about drugs.

Sheesh, this morning it said a 15 year old boy did it, and that he was high on drugs!  Never trust the media I guess! 

Matter of fact, if you do a Google search on "15 year old shoots seven people in Slovakia", the first to come up is:

"Gunman shoots dead seven in Slovakia | World | BigPond News

Aug 31, 2010 ... 'Fourteen people including a three-year-old child were taken to ... been a 15-

year-old drug addict who shot himself dead after the rampage. ...
bigpondnews.com/.../Gunman_shoots_dead_seven_in_Slovakia_506845.html - Australia"
but when you go to the link, it is all changed too, weird. 
It does however say "The SME daily said on its website earlier that the gunman might have been a 15-year-old drug addict who shot himself dead after the rampage."
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August 30, 2010 7:57:02 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Marijuana is a godsend for my wife, as she has MS, and pot helps her extremely well for the muscle spasms associated with it, I do indulge once in a while ,in Massachusetts they decriminalized it a few years back, anything up to an ounce and all you get is a ticket with a 100 dollar fine

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August 30, 2010 8:30:08 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

in Massachusetts they decriminalized it a few years back, anything up to an ounce and all you get is a ticket with a 100 dollar fine

Murph....that's an entirely new definition of 'decriminalised'...

One would hope there'd be NO penalty....

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August 30, 2010 8:36:23 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

WeedCustomize, anyone?

I thought that was what we were doing  I mean the site is so addictive   sorry for the phun

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August 30, 2010 8:56:53 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Jafo,

in Massachusetts they decriminalized it a few years back, anything up to an ounce and all you get is a ticket with a 100 dollar fine

Murph....that's an entirely new definition of 'decriminalised'...

One would hope there'd be NO penalty....

Not in my lifetime... or yours.  There will always be a penalty because government doesn't want to be seen openly taxing pot... hence the fines to keep revenue ticking over.  Decriminalised just means no conviction is recorded.

So why do cops confiscate pot?  Saves being seen buying it from known dealers.

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August 30, 2010 9:32:51 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting LightStar,

It does however say "The SME daily said on its website earlier that the gunman might have been a 15-year-old drug addict who shot himself dead after the rampage."


Note the strategic placement of the word "might" in that sentence.

More information has come down regarding that incident.  This is a quote from the New York Times:

While the police in Bratislava said that the gunman’s identity and motives were still being investigated, relatives and neighbors of the victims said the killer lived in the same apartment building, often railed against the Roma, and had accused the family of dealing drugs and otherwise disturbing the peace...

...one young Roma woman, identifying herself as a granddaughter of one of those killed, said she believed the crime had been fueled by racism. “He’d always been very hostile to colored people and hated us,” she said. “He picked on us all the time.”  http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/31/world/europe/31slovak.html

Drugs apparently were not the reason for this violence--hatred, racisim, and xenophobia were the reasons for this violence.

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