Is it just me or do the Vasari suck?

sanddemon

Join Date 02/2006

Is it just me or do the Vasari suck?

I'm being honest here

As a relatively new player to the game, I've seen all the rushes and different strategies but very little from the Vasari that seems effective. My friends like to particularly play the Adv/Tec because "Vasari sucks" and despite that I try to play the underdog constantly...and I pay for it with a horrible record.

Is there some focus I'm missing that I should cater to? I've been trying to do early starbases and such but without much luck....and all the little ships seem to lose 1on1 to their equivalent, and even enforcers don't seem to match up to the other heavy cruisers?

How do YOU win with Vasari?

strategy

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Quoting Greyfox2,

reply 47

Use the starbase argument is not bullshit. It does a pretty damn good job against illums unless you have a buttload of illums. With a built starbase I wont even approach a halfway upgraded vasari SB unless I have 50+ upgraded illums backed with guardians and a progen. With an unupgraded vasari SB, I will not attack even with 20 illums and progen. Illums are not near the problem as the BS scout/disc rush that JJ uses ad nauseum now. Try a vasari against that and see how they do without using a SB. It wasn't illums that brought JJ to advent. It was scouts and discs. Wrap your head around that.

[_]-Greyfox

Grey the fact that Tyr is inserting u SB at home every time he starts nere u doenst say SB cant be easly killed by 25 lums with progen. And u will still have more then 15 allive.

And JJ is counterable by vasa with many thinks at least untill he will spamm lums, lums rnt unless u have +50% fleet.

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1.) Returning Armada does not work, it's craptastic. But enjoy if you're winning already anyway Make sure that you have available fleet supply and the necessary resources to pay for your ships... sadly, they aren't free anymore.

No, it is pretty good. It gives you roughly a 50% discount on ships you were probably going to buy anyhow. I have used it many times to turn a fight around.....yes, the new reworked RA, not the old one. Late game I am usually using phase gates anyhow, so once the network is up it really isn't such a big stretch to get RA working. It is one of your late game tools. Rushing RA will get you killed though, it is something you deploy when you have some infrastructure in place.

Why would giving the Vasari scout buffed stats be so ridiculous. Have you SEEN the stats on the seeker?

How come when I point this out on the scout thread everyone is like, "Ah haff no problem dealing with scouts, lol, LTP."

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JuleTron- in case you haven't taken the time to notice, the Skirmisher has EXACTLY the same firepower as a Cobalt, and better shields, Hull, and Armor. The ONLY thing that anyone has any real right to dislike is their supply cost. I do agree that the game might have been better if they cost 6, rather than 7, but the ship is the strongest 1 on 1, even without upgrades.

A 1v1 battle is completely irrelevant. The only way a Vasari player can fight with equal numbers of ships is if he has a load of neutrals or has captured most of the map. The issue is the cost efficiency of the skirm. If a TEC player and a Vasari player both have the same amount of fleet supply and same amount of resources, the TEC player will have a much easier time destroying carriers then the Vasari.

Vasari do have some hit and run capabilities...phase gate mobility, Kostura phase gates, the Marauder, and using the Egg to ninja un-upgraded worlds.

I was referring to ship balance, not abilities.

imo, people don't like the scout being a combat unit because the infocard says that scouts counter nothing.

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Quoting Itharus,

reply 43

Palidos:
Callen, the dps comparison you gave for the Light Frigates, is that after upgrades or before upgrades, and does it take into account abilities?

If you mean my comparison of the three light frigs. i did on the buff skirmishers post, then those stats are all at the very beginning without any upgrades at all. Not sure what other post it could be, or what you mean by taking into account abilities since i think none but cobalt actually damage ships. (If sabotage even does. I've never actually used it.)

Again, these stats were taken right after i updated on the 4th, so they should be fairly current.

Quoting JuleTron,

reply 53

A 1v1 battle is completely irrelevant.

I was referring to ship balance, not abilities.

I'm simply saying the vasari LF are STRONGER than the other two. You just can't field as many. As for resource cost, i think it is perfectly acceptable. I just think, as i've stated earlier, that they should cost 1 less supply.

of course, this would give vasari an even greater late-game advantage with their level (7?) research ability that increases fleet supply by 8% (Don't know how high the second level raises it. 15%?)

edit- as for abilities, just because the ships don't have them themselves, you can't count them out. The other races have their own advantages in this respect.

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Quoting Qu4r,

reply 51

Quoting Greyfox2,
reply 47
Use the starbase argument is not bullshit. It does a pretty damn good job against illums unless you have a buttload of illums. With a built starbase I wont even approach a halfway upgraded vasari SB unless I have 50+ upgraded illums backed with guardians and a progen. With an unupgraded vasari SB, I will not attack even with 20 illums and progen. Illums are not near the problem as the BS scout/disc rush that JJ uses ad nauseum now. Try a vasari against that and see how they do without using a SB. It wasn't illums that brought JJ to advent. It was scouts and discs. Wrap your head around that.

[_]-Greyfox

Grey the fact that Tyr is inserting u SB at home every time he starts nere u doenst say SB cant be easly killed by 25 lums with progen. And u will still have more then 15 allive.

And JJ is counterable by vasa with many thinks at least untill he will spamm lums, lums rnt unless u have +50% fleet.

I am not saying they are not killable by illums. They are especially if they are still being built but unless it has less than 1500 hull left on it when it finishes or the advent has more than 15 or 20 illums there(not generally the case in an early rush), it is time to run your illums away once its done. If not then you lose a large portion of your fleet to it even with progen or a repair or 2. If you don't have a modest fleet there waiting for it or go to bombers, then that SB is getting built and will be a major thorn in your side. If it is a built SB with any upgrades at all, then it is foolish to go after it with illums unless you have an overwhelming well upgraded illums with caps and guardians. And yes, if tyr is vasari then I KNOW what he is going to do. He is as predictable as KoK in that regards. He usually does the same thing when he plays advent too(40-50+ fully upgraded illum spam). As to JJ, I said without building a SB as vasari. To counter scout/LF spam particularly from an advent is very difficult for vasari short of SBs or possible some carrier cap spam.

[_]-Greyfox

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WHIPperSNAPper2008

Join Date 03/2008

+126

You didn't adress the major benefit of phase stabilizers for being able to always be within one phase jump of any planet that is being attacked. That alone is huge because you basicly make it so you have no back door for the enemy to attack from.

I rarely see anyone build phase stabilizers anymore in the online multiplayer humans v. humans game; they're very expensive. Once Returning Armada got nerfed, that was the end of the stabilizers.

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And how often do you actually let a Vasari opponent survive to that tech level, Jix Sanchezz (lol I'll never adjust to that name)?

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Quoting top vasari,

reply 4

Advent or TEC are better races to learn with than vasari.

_|~Uber

I disagree. I learnt to play by using the Vasari. I can't play as TEC or Advent anymore, they just suck too much.

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