an unbalanced test

70 cobalts vs 80 diciples..... try using about 100 diciples vs 75 cobalts

wil end up randomly (overkil etc.)


you dont use bombers vs cobalts
if you didnt know this lil thingy u might wanna redo your strategy... advent are a powerfull race... if used smart


even if using 1 type vs 1 type.. nothing wil happen other then 1 race winnig since he got tad more powerfull cobalts and tad less powerfull capitals (at least add 2 capitals 4 both races and see what happens) microing = definatly needed since shield restore auto-use = sucky



to make it even shorter.. U CANNOT test like this
the thing u proofed here is that TEC has stronger cobalts then Advent.. but everyone knew that!!!!
advents ships are cheaper so y... cobalts do own diciples in a 7:8 ratio (duh)


all this isnt meant harsh but just 2 make clear u cannot compare this way

I can test anything you want. Just let me know what you want.



It is naive of you to assume EVERYONE already knew this. I post these things to help enlighten the newbies. It's not really intended for veterans. GALAXY FORGE changes everything. Now, I can test anything.


Hmmm...Seems to me the Advent player would rarely have time to get his capital ships up to that level before the TEC player obliterates him. Nice try though. I just don't think that would work in a 1v1.

Ok. I'll try it out. Thanks.

There's really no reasonable basis to be testing 35 illuminators vs 70 cobalts. On cost (using a 3:1 metal/crystal:credit conversion) it should be 35 vs 55. Using supply it would 35 vs 42. So, you're not testing whether something would be a cost effective counter- you're testing a random match-up.

My biggest problem about your posts: lack of clear methadology, test design selected to prove a point rather than determine a point, lack of replays.

Every single post you make on strategy turns out to be a flamewar because you constantly throw-out lopsided tests and statements to back things up.

Re-formulate based on clear, defensible test design. Attach a replay.

I did do "focus firing" for the losing fleets to see if it would change things. It didn't.



Like I said, I can test anything you want. Just tell me what you think it should be and I will test it and let you know what happens.

Keep in mind that you are ignoring the fact that Illuminators require 3 Military Labs and Cobalts I believe require zero (I dont play as TEC, so not 100% positive). So, you must factor in the time and resources it takes to build the 3 Advent military labs.

A few Captial Ships throwing vollys of AE missles at them pop the fleet pretty good =D I think about 4 ships should do it

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Alright here's the deal. Cobalt Light Frigates and even Vasari Skirmishers are medium armor, NOT light armor, units.

They are good against heavy armor units (like defense vessels and drone hosts). They are actually fairly tough, although they do very little damage to anything that doesn't have "heavy" armor. The fact is also that, ruling out late game ships such as heavy cruisers, the only things good against skirmishers or cobalts are the long range frigates, Specifically Javelis LRMS or assailants.

Because Advent do not get long range frigates early, and because illums are expensive as hell anyway, Skilled advent players, realizing that building disciples will probably lose them the game if their opponent gets long range frigates (ie: 90% of the time) will often chose to construct area drone hosts or defense vessels. Niether of these choices is terribly effective against cobalts or skirmishers, and so therefore in a 1v1 a tec player would actually be making a GOOD call to go mass cobalts if and only if his opponent is an advent player; however, once the advent player has enough time to have 10+ area drone hosts and a ton of illuminators, the tec player will immediately lose his fleet and the game.

My conclusion: The mass cobalt strategy actually WORKS against advent players, but ONLY as a rush strategy, period. Anything else will result in disaster.

okay Im going to save everyone time

87 DISCIPLES VS 70 COBALTS
replay 1:
http://files.filefront.com/87discvs70cobrecord/;9908145;/fileinfo.html
replay 2:
http://files.filefront.com/87discvs70cob2record/;9908183;/fileinfo.html

35 disciples survived in replay 1 and 37 disciples survived in replay 2, however the cobalts had to spin and only started firing ~7-9 seconds into the ~400 second battle.

Second Part

due to the 6-8 seconds difference that some of you might not like, I will do a biased test towards cobalts:

80 DISCIPLES VS 70 COBALTS
http://files.filefront.com/80discvs70cobrecord/;9908215;/fileinfo.html

10 disciples survive, however the cobalts had to spin and only started firing ~8 seconds into the 600+ second battle.

PS: theres a reason I always add replays

oh just so you guys understand why I didnt make disciples rotate, I cannot make the disciples start as the ones that need rotation, tried changing planet/fleet ownerships a few times with different combinations, its possibly something to do with size of the fleet.

also I hope those replays (previous post) end the discussion.

archpsi, it will only end the discussion as to wether a Cobalt spammer can defeat a Disciple spammer (they probably can't). it does absolutely nothing to settle questions of real strategic importance.

it has already been asked in this thread but i will elaborate upon it, the real question that might matter to players is this one:

what mix of ships available to the Advent faction is efficient and competitive with the ships available to the TEC faction?

this manifests in 3 different forms, each of which seems to lead to a bad conclusion for the Advent.

1. TEC LRM spam can be blunted with Advent Defense Vessel Spam.
2. TEC LRM spam can be blunted with Aeria Drone Hosts with fighter squadrons.
3. Advent Fleets composed of Defense and Aeria are easily taken down by Cobalts. The only reasonable answer to Cobalts available to Advent are the Disciples. The Disciples are almost impossible to use against TEC because they are so bad against the LRM spam that started this whole circular argument.

The best proposed solution so far has been clever use of the special abilities on the Radiance capital ship. That may in fact be the only answer until the Illuminators are fixed.

Regardless, all this Galaxy Forge simulation doesn't do much except establish some baseline facts, that actually could have been discovered just by number crunching on an Excel sheet. I hope threads like this one go away in favor of more detailed and insightful discussion of real gameplay scenarios.

I dont think you watched them, I wasnt always the owner of the disciples and I let the a.i micro everything in all replays.



35-37 disciples remaining is quite good imho, im sure it would be 20-32 if the cobalts didnt rotate.



I just wanted to show that the whole premise (the original statements) of this thread are not to be taken at face value:
1- the biased numbers that are used.
2- replays showing that results closer to what would happen are not exactly as stated.

I only used replays to show people something about the original statements, if you checked most of my other posts, I was the first to mention malice and things like that in this thread which are actually things you would see in-game.

If you really want to continue discussing things that will be significantly change by mid next week (they planned to get 1.04 by end of this week), go ahead.

The premise of the thread is that Advent has no counter unit against the TEC Cobalt.

Your replays do not prove anything.



Good Idea. I'll do the same.